I17 and GR

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

You may or may not PvP, but 3 new zones with stuff to do for heroes and villains is pretty significant. Especially considering the heroes had the zones to themselves until there were some villains to fight against. That's a double handful of new badges, plus new missions to do as an alternative older content.

Plenty to do without owning CoV.

Sorry, PvP stuff usually slips my mind.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

As I understand it, I17 will not be released later than GR. If enough non-GR work is finished before GR is ready, I17 may be released earlier.

And do you promise not to complain if there is an Issue 17 before GR and you find it's a very, very small issue?

And Demon Summoning + Dual Pistols. I seriously, HIGHLY doubt that they'll only be available to people who own GR, it's just not good business, not to mention that (Excluding opposite faction archetypes when COV was released) there has never been a powerset released that wasn't available to everyone. With two such highly anticipated powers I'm really thinking everyone will get access to them, and the bulk of buying Going Rogue is going to be Praetoria access, a huge chunk of new costume pieces (like we got with COV), the ability to switch factions and anything else that would require one to travel to Praetoria. At least, that's my take on it as I don't think the devs are THAT cruel to lock people out of a powersets for not buying a product.

Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning are part of Going Rogue. They're listed on the Going Rogue site and they were talked about during the Going Rogue info-a-thon at Hero Con. If they were not part of Going Rogue, they would not be there on the website and they would not have talked about them as linked with Going Rogue.

PS; you admitted CoV limited its Archetypes to purchasing CoV. Why is it that the powersets of the poster children for Going Rogue (Desdemona, the Demon Summoner, and Maelstrom, the Dual Pistol wielder) cannot be limited to purchasing GR?

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

All I said was that the space between I16 and Going Rogue is a huge one if they don't release something in the meantime (and even though they said a quarter 2 release for GR, I know game developing enough to know that that could easily be pushed back further).

Part of me is still expecting nothing, however, especially since I've heard a couple of devs say "oh, can't do much about that until after GR." That can just mean that they can't fit anything else in before GR (which doesn't nix another issue, if they planned for it), I guess, but I'm feeling pessimistic. And it would be rather disheartening to have nothing new added to the game between September of 2009 and Summer of 2010... that's most of a year. Anyway, I'll keep my fingers crossed in the meantime.

I dunno, Angel. 'Linked' to GR and 'exclusive' to GR are not the same thing. I do not remember any mention of the two new Sets being 'exclusive' to GR at HeroCon; just that the two new Signature Characters were 'examples' of the new System for side-switching. I took lots of notes at every Board I attended. Perhaps you got some info somewhere else?

In any event, the reason for limiting CoV's ATs at launch was because you couldnt play a Villain or access the Rogue Isles unless you owned CoV. If Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning were 'exclusive to Praetoria' then even if you buy GR, you will have to create your new character as a Praetorian; which again was not mentioned at HeroCon. Contrariwise, in the PreView Video on the GR Site it appears that Desde is hanging with Statesman, and the backstory of both Desdemona and Maelstrom doesnt sound like they grew up in Praetoria, but in Paragon's reality. Of course, that last point is my own 'take', but I think a valid one.

I hate to use the word, but it would be 'counterintuitive' to limit the Sets of an already available AT to the GR Expansion, and I would suggest that if this is so; the Devs better say so ASAP before people get their hopes up only to be dashed by the harsh reality much later. That isnt good PR.

Forgive me, Angel; but I find your logic assailable in this case. But I am open to any information you have gathered to the contrary. ICANHAZINSIDERINFO?

What lead you to that conclusion? Even if DP and DS are exclusive to the expansion, I don't think they'd be exclusive to characters made in Praetoria. CoV launched with costume parts exclusive to villains, but they changed that an issue later because they realized it was dumb. In other words, you could buy an expansion for villains and use it to benefit new and existing heroes.

You're missing a possible scenario here, which I believe is the likely one: That you can't make DP or DS without buying GR, but after you do you can make DP and DS of any faction regardless of origin. In other words, you'll be able to buy an expansion for Praetorians and use it to benefit new and existing heroes and villains.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

16 issues in 5 years says roughly 1 per quarter with a few extras. I expect at least one more Issue before GR.

You're basing that by *averaging* which doesn't account for the extremes.

The shortest wait between issues was 57 days (Issue 6) and the longest was 222 days (Issue 7).

Let's say they get GR ready for the 6th anniversary on Wednesday, Apr 28, 2010. That will be a 225 day wait between issues -- only three days longer than the wait for Issue 7.

Posi said they already are working on I18 (i.e., the one after GR... *if* there is a mini-issue I17 before GR, then that will be I19). So, I don't expect that after GR comes out that there will be a full four months before the next Issue.

Not following the math here. If there is an issue before GR (#17), then the issue after GR would be #18. The devs already said that GR will not have an issue number associated with it.

Yup, hence my not holding my breath for an issue before GR, but still keeping my fingers crossed.

I don't remember that statement being made...

Because it hasn't... not sure where he got that from. The only thing the devs have said in regards to GR and Issues, is that GR would not be Issue 16. Going by past precedence (CoV and Issue 6), GR will probably coincide with an Issue release. But that's not guaranteed, it might just coincide with a standard patch (to update non-GR folks with non-GR-exclusive bits).

No one knows either way.

edit: just saw Ninus's post:
If you want to take it that way, that's your prerogative. It's probably far more like

1. you can't play a Brute without CoV
2. you can't play Demon Summoning without GR

It has nothing to do with where the characters are being created.

edit2: see also, WoW - you can't play space goats (Draenei) if you don't buy Burning Crusade, that kind of thing.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Actually, that's not really a proper match - an AT isn't the same as a power set - Brutes are Villain ATs, but DP and DS are open to both sides.

Yes... but that proves nothing. They could still be exclusive.

They could be. And even though I want to laugh evilly, I suspect that they won't be.

DS is only open to villains (or Praetorians), technically. It's a Mastermind set, and Masterminds can only begin in the Rogue Isles or Praetoria.

It's comparing Granny Smith apples to Fuji apples, but they're still both apples.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

I think the point is, though, that since this isn't introducing new ATs which need to start in Praetoria, that restricting the new powersets to people who have purchased Going Rogue would be... odd. But I could see them doing it.

Frankly, it all depends on how you look at it. I believe that they've already said that you won't need GR to play in "Ultra Mode". If you don't need GR to access Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning, well.... what will be in GR then? Just Praetorian zones and the ability to switch sides? Seems a bit thin.

Either way, I'm still picking up Going Rogue.

CoV had 5 new ATs and a ton of new powersets. And a ton of costume parts and zones.

So far all we know about GR is that it'll have 1-20 (and maybe higher) content, and some zones. We know nothing of new ATs, and only 2 powersets. If DP/DS don't come with GR, the content of the expansion is going to be pretty light.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.