I17 and GR

But they were all Villain ATs. That's the point. You couldn't play them without having CoV.

Like I said, I could see them doing it either way.

Hrm.... just looked up on Paragonwiki, though, and it seems to indicate that you will need GR to be able to use the Demon Summoning or Dual Pistols powersets.

Not quite the same - if DS is for MMs, and MMs are Villain ATs, then Villain players should have access to it, even if they don't own GR.

Eh? 16 issues in 5 years is 3 per year, not 4, with one spare. And we are over halfway through the 6th year. On averages we should be due 2 more.

Why? It's part of an expansion pack... if you don't own the expansion why should you deserve the goodies? I'm not saying I'm in favour of them doing it, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. And I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Well, not anymore. They gave out CoV for free, so everyone who has CoH has CoV as well now. It's no longer an expansion, but part of the core game.

GR will be an expansion. If you don't buy it, you don't get stuff. Though I haven't met anyone yet who isn't getting it. But new players might not be interested in an expansion.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Prior to that gift, in my own expereince (and SG lists) there were a signficant minority of single single side players - both blue and red.

Because it's not a special new feature - it's just two more power sets.
I'm expecting the Praetorian content to be like the base feature in CoV - there'll be a message saying you need to own a copy of GR at the avatar creation screen when you try and choose to make a Praetorian and at whatever portal takes us to the new zones.

Now he doesn't specifically say "these powersets will only be available if you purchase Going Rogue" but he does say that they are being "put into" Going Rogue which to me implies that they will only be available if you purchase the expansion.

I'd like to believe they'd give us that stuff for free, but GR would be pretty empty if it didn't have any exclusive ATs or powersets.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

I'm inclined to agree since CoV had stuff heroes didn't have access to like various costume parts and the like.Besides we seem to be forgetting a factor that has not been confirmed or denied yet is wether or not there will be a special edition/collector's edition since those always have exclusive goodies that many of us love to have.

I myself have every version of CoX on my main account of three which is important to me for the bonus costume items and powers (such as the Arachnos insignia and prestige power slide for example) and to me that is a viable reason to buy the special edition that may or may not exist...yet.My advice would be to hang back for a bit longer and wait for the Devs to tricle more information to us since if they gave us all of the details there would be no suprises left to make buying GR worth it.

I don't know about that. 20 levels of Resistance content. 20 levels of Misguided Sheep content (sorry, Loyalist content). Plus whatever story arcs, badges and other rewards that come with side switching, with unique side switching content for Villains to become Rogues, and finally Heroes, and Heroes to become Vigilantes, and finally Villains. It may wind up being roughly the same amount of content as Villain launch.

I'd like to see the Praetoria content expanded beyond level 20 on a gradual basis, which would increase the value, over time, of owning the Going Rogue Expansion.

This is true; which begs the question already made (vis a vis DS/DP) and others like; "what else will there be?" Now, a new World (Zones) is enough to warrant a true Expansion by definition, and the Side-Switching is also a major and oft asked for ability worthy of the same nod. I can and will accept it if DP/DS are GR exclusive. I may have a problem with it in my own understanding, but then I will be buying GR anyway; so no harm to my own sensitivities. I just hate to see backlash on the Devs by those who will feel this is 'holding out' on them, and there will be backlash; there always is. In which case, the Devs are already aware, and wont be surprised.

Also something that Matt said that may have been missed during the GR Panel; "What we do in the endgame will occur in Praetoria." Cryptic? A misspoken word? Just something I made note of to share. Heh.

I don't really see multiple new zones as "pretty empty." Other than CoV I don't recall any issue that introduced multiple new zones, unless you count the Midnighters' Club as a whole separate zone than Cimeroa. Unless the zones are fairly content light, and with the whole side-switching arcs added in.....

That being said, I could still easily see it going either way.

But 2 new powersets vs multiple zones..... The new zones are far bigger than a few new powersets.

Yeah, I'm not at all certain why anyone would expect access to either set without buying GR. From a sound business perspective, who at Paragon Studios is going to sit around saying, "I know! Let's talk up two new powersets as selling points of our new expansion, and technically our only tradition expansion if you want to get pedantic...and then give them away for free to people who don't buy it! It's genius!"

Looking for precedent in CoV is not unreasonable, but it's not particularly safe to draw any conclusions from, either, since it was a standalone product in its own right. But here's an unambiguous example of content gating from I6: bases.

Remember how bases were originally a CoV-only feature? Heroes could make and enter bases, sure--but only if they bought CoV. No CoV, no base access. Anyone remember when that changed? It was several issues later, at the least, and possibly even not until they officially fully merged CoH/V into a single product.

If anything I think the lesson there is "You might possibly, in theory, see DP and DS without buying GR, eventually, one day, perhaps."

Pretty empty compared to CoV, is what I'm saying. And we're not comparing 2 powersets vs multiple zones... We're comparing CoV to GR. Both have several new zones. Both will probably have a bunch of costumes. However, GR seems like it will have 0 ATs (vs CoV's 5) and 2 powersets (vs CoV's several). What I'm saying is they're unlikely to make that difference more significant by not including new powersets with the expansion.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

From what my cousin gathered at Herocon, Preatoria isn't just 20 lvls of content. The way it was put is that if you start in Preatoria, at lvl 20 you have to move to the Paragon city or Rogue Isles (depending on what path you choose). That's not to say that there isn't post 20 content in Preatoria, you just do it as a hero or villain not resistance or loyalist.

It was when the products merged.

I expect the two new powersets to be GR purcahses only for at least 12 months, probably more like 2 years. Only time will tell at this point.

Ugh......I can remember what that wait was like, and the effect it had of making Giant Monsters and Archvillains near invincible......

Maybe the devs will give us some GR info before the holidays start and they all disappear?