Are PvP drops actually helping PvP?

Well, if you lost Ubes, you gained me.

If you make PvP recipies drop from the PvE enemies in PvP zones, and let me have a chance of a recipe even for getting killed by another player, I'll show up. I'll carve through enemies, try to defend myself when attacked instead of just running like a wimp, and not curse when I end up in the hospital 99% of the time.

If I get frustrated with it, I'll probably leave and never return. But if it's at least not too bad, I'd probably keep going, and slowly get better at defending myself. Maybe I'll only end up in the hospital 95% of the time, then 90% of the time. Maybe I'll decide I should get at least a cheapo PvP build for when I'm in the zone, and only end up in the hospital 80% of the time. And so on. In theory, this MIGHT eventually turn me into a PvPer, kind of by accident.

Extra bonus points if you roll back the rules to where I know how my powers work.

How would giving rewards for doing PvE in a PvP zone make people anything but really angsty targets? It seems to me it incentivises pure PvE people to come into the zones and farm NPCs, then complain loudly that they are being attacked when all they want to do is get drops from the NPCs. Then they will get frustrated and leave the zone.

Not liking to bring up WoW, but the way they handle it is after a battle you get credit for your side's accomplishments (CoH equivalent = Merits) which you spend on the rewards. Some for kills, some for team accomplishments (like each flag capture, or burned tower, or etc), some as a bonus for being on the winning side. Point being, you can lose and still eventually earn anything you want. Just takes longer than if you're the winner. But you gotta be in the fight against other players not just NPCs.

*sigh*

Yeah. You're right.

Most people probably complain about everything and have an overblown sense of entitlement in PvP zones. It would lure ME to PvP zones, and I wouldn't personally complain about being killed, would try my best to fight back, and this might be the "starter drug" that eventually pulls me into PvP. But yeah, probably all this would do overall is create some additional angsty targets. Just more people like the badgers, "Hey! Don't attack me! I'm just getting the PvP bages in a PvP zone! I can't believe anyone would actually try to PvP me in a PvP zone! You're all horrible people!"

Trust me, we have enough hate tells from pvping and fighting back.

Ive had one guy on freedom ask me why I wasn't smothered as a child, but, then again, they are almost universally scrappers and the occasional tank.

back in i12 there used to be a really bad claws/regen (surprise?) that i would kill every single morning over and over as he tried to farm pillboxes. it was sort of like a morning routine; wake up, log in fire/cold, brush teeth, make him get emo and log, then head to school... he'd send me the most awesome hate tells ever.





im starting to think that was castle.

:-(

You are my hero for today. =)

lol!

Along with making pvp kills worth boss xp pls.

Lulzy

No, I do agree with this. I just assume that PvP IOs as intituted weren't meant to be a lure for newbies. They're vaguely like purples for PvP. I mean, maybe the devs did think they would attract new players, but if they did think that, I agree it was incredibly dumb.

Sadly, PvPOs aren't the kind of lures hardcore PvPers really wanted, though I doubt folks who get them complain. But I bet a lot of the hardcore players would give them up to get more people PvPing, or a system not so whacked out compared to PvE.

The concept of DR isn't a bad one (it's not one I agree with, but I can understand why it was implemented), it's how it works with the rest of the game that causes problems. The PvP base resistance that's granted to all ATs (except Tanks and MMs) compounds the problem - between the base resist and my epic/patron shield, I'm very near (if not already at) the DR hard-cap for resistance, and external buffs like Thermal or Sonic shields will add almost nothing to my stats. DR and the change to cage powers have made Sonic a completely worthless set. However, melee ATs (which already have good defense or resistance, tons of hit points, and sometimes even multiple self-heals) aren't hit nearly as hard by DR. I can understand DR if you apply it to trying to stop a tank-mage Blaster (say, for example, a Blaster running double-stacked Sonic shields with an Emp backing him up), but a smart opposing team will be going after that Emp while the rest of the teammates are providing disruption so that Blaster is less effective against getting a lock and quick kill on a target.

What really needs to be removed is travel suppression and heal decay, and I wouldn't be too opposed to dropping the base resistances either. The problem with the changes as a whole is they took balance from team encounters in favor of balance for 1v1 encounters, and everything's about damage now. Under the old rules there were some builds that didn't win because of damage output, but because of attrition - they wore their opponent down over a 10-minute match. With the new rules, everything's focused on damage and there are very few real attrition builds that are still viable. In a 1v1 situation under the old rules, the rock/paper/scissors metaphor applied, unless the participants were using similar builds, and in that case the better build would win assuming equal skill. Under the new rules, none of that has changed, but everything's been slowed down and essentially having skill lopped off at the top instead of being boosted from the bottom means being "good" doesn't mean nearly as much as it did before.

Thing is, rewards shouldn't be what brings a player in. The system should be reward enough by merit of having fun while doing it. Hell, there were no PvP rewards from I4 until I12, and yet PvP garnered a respectable population. Fact of the matter is most MMO players aren't in it for the PvP. They don't want to PvP, they despise having PvP forced on them, for whatever reason. Rewards aren't going to illicit anything more than a short-lived curiosity from most people, and when they find they can't just magically waltz into a PvP environment and win like they do in PvE, they'll get frustrated and leave. A PvEer is very unlikely to just wake up one morning and decide they want to PvP - more often than not a PvEer becomes a PvPer because they go into a PvP environment and say "hey, that was fun," or they've got friends who try to get them into it, and they all have fun together, regardless of the reward.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

The falling crumbs on the keyboard helps with the button mashing.

I went on a hiatus from CoH to play Aion, which espouses a PvPvE mentality. Once you hit level 25, you can enter the abyss, which has quite a few benefits to it. There is open PvP here, but the rewards for going out there not only to PvP, but to farm are wonderful.

At the end of my two weeks playing the game, I had 1600 kills.

This coming as a pure PvE'er from CoH.

I think adding the potential for PvP recipes to drop from PvE mobs in PvP zones would work quite well - once you realize you can ignore those that whine, as they either ragequit PvP, or develop tough skin. I died countless times in the abyss and spent a fortune paying fees to travel all over the place, but the times when I was ambushed in the middle of a mob by someone and actually wiped them AND the mob was the most exhilarating gameplay experience I have had as of late.

I think CoH could learn a lot from Aion's PvPvE system.

Aion is a great game to base PvPvE gameplay off of. I genuinely enjoyed the abyss gameplay and also wound up with upwards of 1000 kills before finally getting burned out by the grind (crazy bad there) and coming back to CoX. This also coming from someone who never really PvP'd in any other game before.

CoX has so many innovative features in it (including better leveling speed) that it's a shame to see PvP in the state that it is.

You too? I left with 1600 PvP kills after two weeks of nonstop grinding. The bots and grind got to me.

After seeing this topic, I made this one in the PvP boards about Aion's PvPvE system.

Ehhh ?

Wow and I thought I was down on the composition of the community. I think I am pretty safe saying that most people only care that they are playing with the same pieces and the same rules as everyone else. Its really hard to claim a sense of entitlement for a soloist in a zone, to not want to have to fight teams of eight that exhibit all the sportsmanship of rabid dogs. Its one thing to have two people play a game of chess its another to have a marksmanship contest where one person has a bent pipe, a hammer , ammo that was made during the civil war and the other guy has a Barret M-107.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

Look if you want to say sure you can pvp, all you need to do is first get the accolades for your characters and not just the 4 big ones but the painful other ones as well, then you need to raise enough inf to put in the no brainer vast improvement IOs (Miracle, regen tissue, numina). Also I have no idea how even someone that doesn't pvp cant say having a 20% hp advantage, 10% endurance advantage and amped regen and recovery advantages isnt going to produce a large difference in win rates. You toss in the further advantages from sets, even more hp, more recharge, resistances its a no brainer.

The skill differential is something you can't equalize out and you shouldn't even try but having N on 1 fights or fights where you had people with bazookas hunting others with water pistols, well that isn't going to be fun for anyone. Well anyone you could imagine actually wanting associate with, there are varieties of people that get off on torturing small animals that might enjoy something like that.

Any game needs a measure of balance to it. In chess it doesn't matter how long you have been playing the game, it doesn't matter how well you do outside of the game (There was some suspicion that politics were involved in karpov-kasparov but thats an exception). It should be the skill in the game that counts. What we have now hasn't helped with skill at all and it has kept the outside in and made it even worse. Before if you had a decent build, it wasn't entirely useless, now a decent pve build won't even do well against the NPCs in the zones. You have a capped SR scrapper/brute ? expect to be swatted around by the npcs. You have a capped defense blaster ? LOL. The big build problems (lack of a plus perception power), lack of a phase power in your build, Insufficient KB protection in your build are all still there.

I have no idea why you are responding to me with such a tangential and strange set of replies. They seem almost calculated to misconstrue what I said.

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that 1 vs 8 is no win. There were many many very nice people to pvp with pre I13, then there were the people that made you ashamed to share a species with. It also doesn't take a genius to say well he has 30% more HP than I do, a 40% across the board recharge bonus, his build is built around having plus perception, phase/hibernate powers, resistance rather defense bonuses yeah I am at a disadvantage.

My first 50 took me something like 400 hours to get to 50. For the sake of argument lets say it takes average person 100 hours. They go into PVP with their 50 no accolades, an SO build and get owned. They do a little thinking and realize wow, to do well in there I would have to respec out of my current build, make one that will not do as well in pve, and get involved with the market which may or may not be a game they care for to begin with or their other option is to make a new character spend the time to level it up, get the accolades, and spend the time dealing with the market and learning yet another mini game before they can even start dealing with pvp ? Whats more they are doing this so they can play with people that have likely been extremely rude and unsportsmanlike ?

Most would come to the conclusions that for PVP there are plenty of other viable options.

The problem is PVP 2.0 did nothing to help, it just changed things around.

try pvping more.