Are PvP drops actually helping PvP?

From you ?

In every game I have ever played there has always been people who felt they had to have every advantage imaginable to win. Go out on any golf course and you will see people using league illegal clubs and balls maybe even accidentally stepping on the other players balls when they think no one can see them. In fps games you will find people using aimbots hacked graphics drivers. In team sports you will always find someone that is willing to go way out of the box to win, be it from illegal equipment to tampering with the other team.

In almost all these games the people that resort to such advantages are treated with scorn and contempt. They know they aren't competing and that their victories are false. At least in real world games they have an excuse that they are doing it for profit which is at least understandable. Here they pat themselves on the back for having an advantage and think they are great.

I read your posts I see you use the words challenge and competition and apparently for you it means a M1A1 fighting a Pinto.

Then you think to bother me by saying I have a sense of entitlement and want goldstars for showing up ? When I used to fight new players, I would let them have at least a two weight class advantage on me. Everyone in the game expected it from a five year vet and I could hardly expect less of myself.

Someone who gears up beats on people that don't have the same level of equipment then complains about them being whiny with a sense of entitlement doesn't quite cut the mustard.

Is that you throwing out random idiocy, or are you just asking ridiculous questions to obfuscate ?

Not only did they form leadership structures when confronted, they wrote manuals so other people could do the same. I probably still have a few of them on old computers.

As to the rest the only answer is yes. We had league combat, ladders, individual combat ranking much as the arena, and a persitent environment.


LOL you work for a large company, so your lack of knowledge about the size of software development teams is excusable. OK.


No you aren't. All you have done is presented what your impression of what is happening and asserted that its how the world works. Its an incredibly naive viewpoint.

Its not how things wind up working in the situations you claim familiarity with, and its not the way they worked or work anywhere.

Really ?

Too many to list, probably too many to actually remember all of them.

Air Warrior
MPBT EGA
MPBT SOLARIS
MPBT 3025
DOOM 1,2.
Unreal Tournament 1,2,3
Starship troopers Online. Not recommended
Aces High
Mechwarrior II, not recommended it just got the game wrong.
Mechwarrior III, very good implementation
Mechwarrior IV, another good implementation if you care for the timeline.
Quake just about every variant.
Soldier of fortune
WoW. Don't care for WoW
Various Total conversions for both quake and doom.
Counterstrike.

Have fun there are a few targets for you to punch at.

This made me chuckle, because there's nothing even remotely like this in CoX PvP (short of potential geometry exploits, which do get people banned). Everyone has the exact same opportunity to get exactly the same stuff. You somehow equate a well-IO'd and accoladed player fighting an SO'd player to be like moving someone's golf ball, but in reality it's more like I have the crazy expensive set of golf clubs and balls and the other player's got some gear he picked up at Wal-Mart. Am I going to have an advantage? Sure. Is it going to be game-breakingly huge? Absolutely not. The best part about this make-believe golf game is that the player using the Wal-Mart gear has a locked box in the back seat of his car with the exact same gear I'm using, except he hasn't figured out how to unlock it. Once he puts a bit of time into looking for the key, though, he'll be on pretty much the same footing as me.

In this analogy, you are the one with the Wal-Mart clubs and balls, you can see that locked box in your car, you know exactly what's in it and what it will do for you, yet you refuse to figure out how to unlock it because you stubbornly maintain that someone should give you the key (or better yet, just hand you the stuff). In a sane person's mind, that's entitlement. Normal people laugh at entitled people, which is probably why no one's taking you seriously at this point.

Oh, right. I forgot. Everyone should have everything, because that's the only way to make everyone happy.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

Personally, I'm not speaking up mostly because :

1/ Most of the people arguing against Another_Fan are already on my ignore list since a long time, for general stupidity ; tough to answer something you can't read.

2/ I've been playing MMORPGs for a decade, and the old quantity > quality ("mindless grinding for hours should make you have an advantage on others") argument by so-called hardcore PVPers got old about... yeah, a decade ago. I don't buy it in real life, I'm not buying it in a game. All I'm seeing is people who can't compete in real life, can't even compete in strategy or first person shooters, so resolve to flee to a game where time spent prevails over skill ; and in this specific case we're talking about people staying on an obscure niche game rather than fight the crowds in more popular MMORPG PVP games such as Darkfall or GW, because they know they wouldn't be able to get even near the top on these games.

3/ Continuing the above point, we're talking about people who're underachievers and resent this. They're going to be passionate about defending what it is they do on the boards, they're going to be willing to spend hours doing it, and by doing so they're going to look dumber than I or anyone else could make them look like. To waste time writing an answer when any passerby can plainly see what's going on is pointless ; unless you're kind of immature and get your kicks out of doing so (that would be me, and I have no shame in admitting that).

Internet rule of thumb : there's ten people reading for one person typing. Everytime you play the tough guy act, you're looking retarded to the silent majority.

Yup, from me.


'


Except in this game there is no loot really rare enough or good enough to give this kinda of huge edge you are talking about. ON top of that there is dr that lowers the gap even further. The real difference is in game knowledge and practice. Both of those take actual effort and if people aren't willing to put it in then that would be their problem.



This has what to do with mmorpgs? Sure people in mmorpgs do absurd things to win. There used to a well known player who would 4 box in zone pvp to be uber buffed and base tp when the buffs would drop. I fail to see how that equates into your equal loot for all and equal footing for all theory. The fact is mmorpgs have been time equals reward based forever. And honestly as far as mmorpg pvp goes its far easier in this game thanks to the functionality of our market for a new player to get geared up. Our purples here aren't like other games rares. Sure some of the pvpos are out of reach to some but honestly if you are using a +3 defense io to finish your awesome pvp build you probably have more issues than the loot gap.



Only problem, you can't get that kind of different equipment here. You can't tamper with the other team in this game. As far as not adhereing to fake rules or a code of morality that isn't really there, thats called playing win. There is a great article out there about scrubs and people who play to win. There is nothing wrong with playing to win, except for the people who refuse to do it.



I don't play this game to win a popularity contest. And honestly if you want if you want to go there in real world anaogies we can give it a shot. earlier in the thread you used mlb and its profit sharing to give us a model of how things should be more equal. Here is where your theory falls apart. The world series champs have a payroll of $208 million. The profit sharing luxury tax means they had to pay a total of $26.9 million. To put this in proscriptive for you their top player made $33 million this year. On top of that one team has a lower payroll, Pittsburgh Pirates, at $25 mil than they paid in tax alone. So you see even in the real world, having the inf to buy the top gear translates into wins. Once you get your head around the thought that their is no fair it all gets a little easier to take in.




No victory is false unless the governing body of the sport involed strips someone of them. The sports you often see this in are olypimc style comeptions. The number one cause of this performance enhancing drugs. There is no direct equivalent of this in video games. Not only that ncnc is never going to step in and strip someone of a win. Care to guess why? Its because everyone here starts with the same opportunities, its what you do with those opportunities that decide your fate.


I have never seen anyone gloat about winning because they have a certain io. I have never sen anyone win a fight because they have a certain io. The things I have sen done is a 'scrub' player complain because someone had better gear. When in truth that player that lost is losing because of lack of practice time and game knowledge/understanding. You will often see these people scream for things like people to not move or not use inspires. No amount of free gear will help these people get better or grasp pvp. They are just bad. And they are probably bad at every form of competition that the partake in. Its human nature not a disadvantage in a mmorpg that makes them bad. Often times these people create their own rules in their own head that would give them optimal conditions to be able to win. Sadly for them all these things do is hinder them from ever really being able to function at a top level at anything.





Again your analogies fail. The problem this one has is the drivers of these machines. I honestly will take a player like Supermax with his self inflicted love of sos over most any scrub pvper that comes up with a fully ioed build. Want to know why, because his game knowledge and skill is that superior to the other player. So how would you fix that problem? are we going to ship boxes of skill and game knowledge to bad players? or do you think maybe, just maybe they could invest the same time the superior player did to learn the system to get better? Stop acting like because we played this game along time and learned our craft that we were born with silver spoons in our mouths. Mmorpgs are all about the grind, if you aren't looking to grind it out then you aren't looking for a mmorpg.




and seriously how did you give them this advantage? Do you know something about how the game works that I don't? You can not buff a player up against you. Did you delete enhancers out of your builds? Did you bring a lower level toon against them? Do you think this helped make those other players better? If anything your 'fair play' retarded the development of a potential new pvper instead of making them better.




Perhaps you missed this earlier as you seem to miss anything you can not twist to meet your reality. I am one of the best geared players in the game. I lose often. I am bad, like really bad. People with less play time and lesser builds do beat me. Please tell me how this fits into your model of the uber leets only wanting to pwn the noobs.



On to Nihili


Putting people on ignore is general fail, saying it is because they are stupid is even more so. Probably the most easily ignorable poster in this thread would be Barrier. The thing about barrier is though he is one of those guys who has done testing gotten real numbers for stuff and learned to apply it to the part of the game he enjoys. Sure his posting style is rough but as far as him being stupid nothing could be farther from the truth. There are real trolls on these forums to the best of my knowledge not a single one has posted in this thread.


The fact that it got old a decade ago didn't clue you in that it may be you that is wrong not the big evil pvpers. These games are all grind. The more you grind the longer you play. The longer you play the more you pay. Its the design of mmorpgs. Its the way it is. You might not like it, but honestly its just the way it is. Also how can you not buy it in real life. People constantly come out ahead of others by investing more time in something than others. Honestly this mmorpg is way more 'fair' than real life and even most other mmorpgs. Also most of the players who play to pvp here do participate in other games pvp as well. Most are at the top of those games as well. Want to guess why? because even in games with free loot you still have things like game time that unlock stuff and you also get more practice. The same things that provide an advantage here. How odd. The problem almost all of them have is the lack of game speed in those games. It was a shame ncnc gutted the i12 version of pvp movement because it was honestly one of the single greatest features of any mmorpg pvp ever. Even with the changes to it in i13 its still far superior movement than most.



Its cute that you would think that people are underachievers based on forum board text. the fact that you know absoltuely nothing about me or any other poster here and pass this kind of judgement speaks volumes of your attitude and mind set. Please do though point out where me or any of the rest of us arguing with A_F look dumber than you can make us look. A_f has zero clue how pvp in this game works, yet thinks he has the cure all to make it all better. Perhaps you are short sighted as him and missed the part where I keep saying that none of his ideas and now I would assume yours as well will help pvp in this game in any way. I really appreciate people with no knowledge of pvp in this game thinking they know better than people who actually actively participate in it think they are far superior at their understanding of it.