Best and easiest for solo +0/+8 or higher? NO Bots/Traps

Mercs/Poison

Expendibility has never been so high.

Except for the fact that Ninjas in melee have better synergy with their powers as opposed to Mercs/Poison. I've played both and Ninjas/Poison handeled better.

They do benefit greatly, in fact, because the extra 5% defense and 10% resistance go a long ways to making them less vulnerable, especially with hurricane going. Ninjas/Storm isn't a bad power combination at all, although you'll want to play around with it to find the best course of action when attempting large mobs.

I really like my Ninja/Storm to go against smaller, tougher groups because that's really what they're better at, but for big groups the more effective way was to not use Hurricane, but instead to use Oppressive Gloom + Thunderclap and Teleport Team into the mob.

Storm gives you that kind of flexibility, but whichever route you choose to use, you really need to make sure to keep spawns as tightly packed as possible to help with the Ninjas limited AOE, and you need to either have the mobs heavily debuffed or controlled to keep those spastic slashers alive. The def/res IOs do help Ninjas a lot, but be very mindful that the range is rather small on those and that the Ninjas heavily prefer to be in melee.

The other recommendation is to put a goto command on an extra mouse button. It makes it very easy to point and click, and you'll be using the goto command literally all of the time with the Ninjas. Doing this, I find the Ninjas one of the easiest sets to control.

Why are you comparing a set at 26(thugs) to a set at 32(bots), Most sets get all their AoEs with the 32 upgrade.

I was saying that I wanted AoE and I know a lot of people would say thugs do more AoE and I was saying that might be true if the arsonist ever stayed alive. It was meant as more of a joke based on realism. I wasn't "really" comparing as much as making an observation from someone who has played Bots and Thugs.

This is what I've discovered--in my only MM of any substantial level--though Christmas Man (Oni) just got his Rain o' Fire.

Brillyant! Curse my stupid concept that requires flying and the shark immobilize (which yes, will be useful with aforementioned RoF and Hurricane).

I can run my Bots/FF on +0 x8 without really even feeling terribly challenged. I'm probably going to bump him to +1 or +2.

My Zombies/Storm can do +x x8, but it's a bit more challenging. I actually lose pets, althought Herdicaning cuts that down alot, but it's tricky to master. I just picked up Hurricane recently so I'm still in the far end of the learning curve, but x8 is definitely still my diff of choice.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

Well, you can't just expect AOE damage without doing a bit of micromangement and/or prep work. Even with an Oni you need to position them just so, and with the ***-bot you need Mu to prevent knockback out of burn patches and you need to position your Fences just right because of the small AOE radius.

Also, getting Call To Arms: +Res and Expedient Reinforcement: +Def in addition to Sovereign Right: +Res and Edict of the Master: +Def gives the Arsonist a huge amount of survivability because Thugs has Gang War which is perfect for fitting in those 2 recharge intensive pet IOs (which you can't fit into on Bots, Ninjas or Mercs).

Picking an appropriate secondary such as /Dark or /Traps that has Holds and Debuffs in it makes them live longer as well. Combining Thugs with /Dark increases life expectancy of your minions due to the To Hit Debuff from pretty much all /Dark powers, in addition to a 22% Dam debuff (going upto 30% Dam debuff against single targets once you hit em with Twilight Grasp), an AOE Stun, AOE -Recharge (that you can stack with the -Recharge from Web Envelope) , a cone Fear and 2 single target 'holds' for problem Lts and can be stacked with Patron Holds for problem Boss mobs. Add in Tar Patch for a huge -Res debuff and your thugs just do obscene damage even without the Arsonist and have astounding survivability. Oh yeah, almost forgot Fluffy that basically doubles the heals, immobilizes and holds. The thing with /Dark is that you need +Recharge, you need Hasten and you need to spam your powers, constantly. Get Howling Twilight under 60s recharge and use it every time it's available. Open with Fearsome Stare -> Tar Patch -> Darkest Night each encounter. Your Arsonist should be able to tank pretty much any non-EB/AV/Hero boss with that kind of support. Minions won't be around long enough to pose a threat.

However, the biggest change in playstyle I made that increased my Arsonists life expectancy was binding a passive GoTo macro for him to Shift+Right Click to bring him into range of Twilight Grasp each time I needed to heal him with Shift+Left Click to attack my target to let him lose after healing. I have a similar setup with Ctrl+Left/Right Click on GoTo for my Bruiser. The rest stay on defensive for bodyguard.

It might just be that I like the active playstyle of Thugs/Dark. I know Bots/* or */Traps or */FF were absolute snorefests for me, but if you don't want Bots/Traps and are hunkering for more involvement in the lives and deaths of your minions, give Thugs/Dark another try.

Edit: I don't know what your build was at level 26. You should have had Fearsome Stare, Tar Patch and Darkest Night by then to evaluate endgame survivability. Did you try the GoTo macros for your Bruise to take initial aggro after your opening chain and for your Arsonist to then attack your selected targets?

I agree here. You havent played a "Real" mastermind until you play ninja/poison to 50. Everything else is just plain old easy mode.

Nin/Poison felt pretty comfortable to me. It was my Mercs/Poison that got shelved after 35 levels, not my Nin/Poison.

Sheesh, if this isn't easy mode, I'm not sure I even want to try another mastermind. My ninja/poison has already ruined soloing for most of my toons.

Originally Posted by Fulmens The plural of anecdote is not data.

That's any mastermind for you!

(although some of the combinations have to mature a bit first).


You can sit back and eat a sandwich with any mastermind, just some let you hold a bigger sandwich while doing it!

I think I slept through 40-46 on my bots/dark, with my roommate just telling me when to go to the next mission.

I can't wait for demon summoning.

I love this quote

Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

God, I wish that were true. I really want to find a MM build where I can put the pets on aggressive and then ignore them while I do my thing. Haven't found one yet.

I want a MM that plays like a fire dominator where you don't HAVE any control over the pets. So far, all the ones I've tried if you don't control your pets, you die horribly. And I think I've tried all possible combinations up to level 25-30. Yes, I know, this pretty much means masterminds are not the AT I should be playing, but I really love the idea of them and want to find one that I can at least succeed with. No luck yet.

It isn't about aggressive mode, it is about bodyguard mode.

All you need to do is draw some aggro and then sit about while the pets win the fight.

Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"