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I really have to question that, as it's more of a "gut feeling" than a real thing. I've had 2-3 tankers on teams and not felt like we were "slower" than some other team makeup. In other words, you really can't measure something like that. You can technically add up DPS on a team and try to come to some sort of conclusion, but that's complicated by mob HP, resists, placement of mobs, etc. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
It's more about justifying teams where more than 2 members are Tankers. Any time I have been in this situation, the kill speed drops way, way low, and it becomes evident that dropping one of the tanks for ANY other archetype would be an effective switch.
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Tanker Tuesdays feature all tanker teams, and they can motor just fine... I think some of the TF times put out during those have been rather fast, too, and I don't think they were going for speed with them. Tankers feature good melee AOE, and can pack the mobs in type, so you really can cut through things quickly. On my Tanker Tuesday teams, I haven't encountered any real challenges that I don't face with any team makeup.
In all seriousness, any team makeup in this game can work just fine, so it's not going to make THAT big a difference one way or another. That's the great thing about CoX.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
All Tanker teams are fun as hell, because its just one great big crazy smashfest. I've run most of the TFs in the game at some point on all tanker teams, and while it might take a little longer, its always been a total blast.
�Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.� ― John Wayne
�Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!� - George Carlin
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As was mentioned, there are regular Tanker Tuesday events with all tank teams. First Tuesdays of the month are on Champion, Second Tuesdays are on Justice. There is a Tanker Tuesday tour going on on the third Tuesday of Month that is running alphabetically. They just did the Protector Server last week. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
We know that all-Defender, all-Controller, all-Scrapper, and all-Blaster teams can be very successful. I am wonder about all-Tanker teams, though.
I have a reason for asking this question. It's not so much that I want to try a team of all Tankers. It's more about justifying teams where more than 2 members are Tankers. Any time I have been in this situation, the kill speed drops way, way low, and it becomes evident that dropping one of the tanks for ANY other archetype would be an effective switch. I am not a Tanker player primarily. I have had one or two Tankers through the years. It's not because I don't like the AT but because I keep finding that it is the only AT that contributes very little to team success when more than 1 or 2 members are of that AT. Thoughts? |
I've enjoyed being part of them so far and we haven't had problems motoring through missions. If you already have a tank, keep an eye out for announcements both here in the tank forums or on the TankHQ global channel for events and come join. You'll see that all tank teams are quite viable.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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This is pretty much nonsense because it's entirely dependent on what kind of tank and what you're replacing them with. Plenty of tanks do excellent damage. My ice tank does massive damage: Rage + Icicles + Ice Storm + Footstomp is nasty. The stomp comes after the storm to keep them from running off and they're dead before they can stand up again.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
We know that all-Defender, all-Controller, all-Scrapper, and all-Blaster teams can be very successful. I am wonder about all-Tanker teams, though.
I have a reason for asking this question. It's not so much that I want to try a team of all Tankers. It's more about justifying teams where more than 2 members are Tankers. Any time I have been in this situation, the kill speed drops way, way low, and it becomes evident that dropping one of the tanks for ANY other archetype would be an effective switch. |
Replace ANY tank with a force field defender and your damage is NOT going up. Replace any tank with a fire blaster and sure your damage will be higher. Give me 6 tanks plus 2 rads or darks and I'll show you epic carnage. There's just so much variability in team line-ups that +/- one tank can mean damage goes up OR down.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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As Rangle mentioned join us for a Tanker Tuesday and decide for yourself. It's true that some builds take a while to mature, but once in their zone many Tanks can do unbelievable amounts of damage while having very few issues surviving the aggro that surrounds them. I'm not sure what you're referring to in your post. Was it a particular incident or is this a general observation? It could be the Tank/s you were running with weren't designed to dish damage (I still see "aggro sponges" when I PuG). |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
We know that all-Defender, all-Controller, all-Scrapper, and all-Blaster teams can be very successful. I am wonder about all-Tanker teams, though.
I have a reason for asking this question. It's not so much that I want to try a team of all Tankers. It's more about justifying teams where more than 2 members are Tankers. Any time I have been in this situation, the kill speed drops way, way low, and it becomes evident that dropping one of the tanks for ANY other archetype would be an effective switch. I am not a Tanker player primarily. I have had one or two Tankers through the years. It's not because I don't like the AT but because I keep finding that it is the only AT that contributes very little to team success when more than 1 or 2 members are of that AT. Thoughts? |
I can't speak for others, but all of my Tanks are designed to defeat opponents as quickly as possible (the best damage mitigation there is), not just hold aggro and soak damage.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
If you ran a higher-level team of all Shield/SS or Shield/Fire I doubt you'd see a drop in killing speed. In fact, half the team could Sheld Charge one spawn and alternate for the other and you'd have some pretty quick encounters.
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Stressed the key word for you.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
We know that all-Defender, all-Controller, all-Scrapper, and all-Blaster teams can be very successful. I am wonder about all-Tanker teams, though.
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There are some all-(insert AT) teams that fall flat. Without the right team build, they can still be sluggish on kill speed or weak on survival. I think there are several team builds for all-Tank teams that would shine brightly, though.
All Ice/ teams: Herd caps would be laughable, and any in-range mobs would be slowed to the cap, have their damage floored, and be out of endurance. Add in non-stop Icicles and attacks from any mix of secondaries, and the team would mow through groups like crazy.
All Shield/ teams: Uber defense and defense resist with AAO. Alternate Shield charge between groups of 2, and you're done.
All Fire/Fire teams: I've done this with just 2 tanks, and they do quite well.
All WP/ teams: WP being the Scranker-Friendly set, this wouldn't be hard to pull off.
All ELA/ teams: Endurance drain in excess. Having shields could end up being superfluous.
All Stone/ teams: Ok, that one's just a joke.
You get the point.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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To be fair, 'aggro sponges' have their place. I have one tank built to be as indestructible as possible, at the expense of damage. I have another built for high damage and soloing with little thought to teaming and survivability against large spawns. The rest fall in between.
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Originally Posted by NuclearMedicine
It could be the Tank/s you were running with weren't designed to dish damage (I still see "aggro sponges" when I PuG).
I can't speak for others, but all of my Tanks are designed to defeat opponents as quickly as possible (the best damage mitigation there is), not just hold aggro and soak damage. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I agree, "aggro sponges" have their place.
Also some Primaries and Secondaries work better together depending on which end of the spectrum you want to be on.
Tanker Tuesdays are a great place to see all this in action. I encourage the OP (or anyone who's interested) to come to one and see all the variety in play styles and builds. It's a great place to ask questions and see how the power sets work in a team environment.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
Speaking of....
Tanker Tuesday #61 tomorrow.
Champion Server
IP Gate in Kings Row
8pm CST/9pm EST
Tanker Tuesday #72 Oct 5 @Champion
"I am not sure if my portrayal of being insane is accurate, but damn its fun all the same."
W00T! TT Classic!! I should be there! 
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
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Unfortunately I won't be. Have a fun Tanker Tuesday. |
Originally Posted by NuclearMedicine
W00T! TT Classic!! I should be there!
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Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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In six to eight months, we'll be able to run all of the Rogue Isles counterparts with all Tanker teams.
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Originally Posted by Ultraamann
All Tanker teams are fun as hell, because its just one great big crazy smashfest. I've run most of the TFs in the game at some point on all tanker teams, and while it might take a little longer, its always been a total blast.
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"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
They go really well, I've been in a few, there is an event that goes on if you just watch the forums for the Tuesday Tanker Tour!!!!! They do it all the time and have been doing it for a long time.
EDIT: reads the forum....lol guess you heard.
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
It's not an ALL Tanker team but I recently joined a team of 3 tanks with my Human form PB and we annihilated stuff. More PBAOE's than you could shake a stick at and I was as utterly safe no matter what kinda craziness I tried.
I reccomend a Tank + PB team. The inherent gives you crazy bonuses in this case.
Masterminds annoy everybody, sooner or later. Heck, Masterminds annoy themselves.
-ShadowsBetween
Craziest all Tank damage output I've seen was during an ITF with 4 */SS, 2 */Fire, one */DM and a Shield/Axe. If Foot Stomping didn't clear the mobs SC and FSC did. Not many mobs lasted long. My screen was usually ablaze with orange numbers, bouncing goons, fire and "smoke". It was truly an awesome experience.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
An all Tank team is alot of fun and works really well.
Dont really need a healer or much of anything...except for some certain encounters.
One encounter in particular was the eden trial...as in....although we tanks couldnt die easily and could kill all the little guys we couldnt kill them fast enough to stop them from healing the stone wall.(an example of a game mechanic issue..as in the develoeprs should have put into at least one of the tanks attacks set some form of way to mitigate regen...because if 8 players cant tackle something..then solo this problem in a smaller scalle will be undoable...ie this is an example of something that is broken)
Also against some archvillains we found we could continualy attack but the problem was again we just couldnt bypass the targets health regeneration and healing.(another big red flag here....as 8 players should be able to bypass the problem...mgiht not be able to be done instantly but it should be possible...so if it doesnt work...this becomes another example of the broken mechanic)
You see thats a huge major drawback to an all tank team.....for some reason Tanks have no way to compensate for healing rates...and when you have 8 people you can really see the hole inthe game mechanics.
Its a big enough hole that a train of 18-wheelers can drive through...
Anywise aside from what i mentioned an All Tank team is really good and alot of fun.
In fact here is a dialogue well its not exact but its basically what it was after one encounter when the entire team went AFK.
"sorry guys I was AFK for most of that encounter did everything go ok?"
"oh? You where? I think the rest of us where AFK as well."
"Hey!! You went AFK? We all thought you where dealing with the combat."
"oh well...no harm...no foul looks like they all died anywise"
"Are you sure we are at the highest difficulty setting?"
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Not always true...a good FF can use force bub to herd mobs together and push them onto the massed up tanks so their AoEs are as efficient as they can be. I've done about 8 full mobs on ITF pinned to a central point and the rest of the team jumps in and smashes away.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Replace ANY tank with a force field defender and your damage is NOT going up. Replace any tank with a fire blaster and sure your damage will be higher. Give me 6 tanks plus 2 rads or darks and I'll show you epic carnage. There's just so much variability in team line-ups that +/- one tank can mean damage goes up OR down.
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Youtube link (doesn't autostart for some reason)
I think an all tanker team would be... liberating. No need to worry about someone squishy doing something stupid. Heck, throw assault and tactics on everyone and they would all be sporting Rage. Smashy, smashy, and all that. I've wanted a static team all decked out with leadership toggles forever, but none of the ones I've been on have wanted to 'gimp' themselves taking leadership powers.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
I ran a Moonfire TF tonight with two other tanks (I was on my Macer, Swedish Fury), and it was great. We had good buffs and a couple of Scrappers, too. Burned through everything, and it was a very safe TF as well... we did have a couple of deaths, but that was more from people running off away from teh group than anything else.
It was nice... I hardly had to taunt all night, and it was hilarious to see three visible clumps of enemies in the bigger cave rooms, as all the enemies were drawn in by Gauntlet to the three tanks.
Safe and fast, what's not to like about that?
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
It's more about justifying teams where more than 2 members are Tankers. Any time I have been in this situation, the kill speed drops way, way low, and it becomes evident that dropping one of the tanks for ANY other archetype would be an effective switch.
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Is this JButane?
This is actually a common argument volleyed about around here through the years, are tankers relevant, are they detrimental to the game, and so on.
And you've evidently teamed with some poorly slotted/played tanker verities, maybe lower levels, per your pool of experience.
In fact there's nothing, and I mean nothing, as fun and filled with pure smashing carnage, then a complete team of well slotted, well played tankers.
Go to any Tanker Tuesday event, like others have said and see for yourself, if you haven't.
Also:
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Originally Posted by SoilentGreen
If you ran a higher-level team of all Shield/SS or Shield/Fire I doubt you'd see a drop in killing speed.
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There's always going to be a trade off for having all tanks, and that trade off is having absolute invincibility for a slightly reduced killing speed. And I will say it is only slightly reduced, so long as your team did take a little time to pick some tanks with good DPS (just like you would pick some DPS on your balanced teams). I know a long time ago before I got tired of JButane I made a Fire/Fire tank that could consistently do ~230 DPS with spikes of over 300DPS (of around 12-13 seconds long).
A good team with a nice mix of shields, super strength, fiery aura/fiery melee, electricity, etc. would absolutely run amok in any TF. The PBAOE damage would leave you just running between spawns with barely even a pause.
We know that all-Defender, all-Controller, all-Scrapper, and all-Blaster teams can be very successful. I am wonder about all-Tanker teams, though.
I have a reason for asking this question. It's not so much that I want to try a team of all Tankers. It's more about justifying teams where more than 2 members are Tankers. Any time I have been in this situation, the kill speed drops way, way low, and it becomes evident that dropping one of the tanks for ANY other archetype would be an effective switch.
I am not a Tanker player primarily. I have had one or two Tankers through the years. It's not because I don't like the AT but because I keep finding that it is the only AT that contributes very little to team success when more than 1 or 2 members are of that AT.
Thoughts?