Parkour: or, Traveling without a travel power.
By
Alpha-One,
Posted on: 2009-10-30 24:16 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Combat Jumping and Hurdle make for a decent semi-travel power.
The key thing missing from the true parkour style of travelling is forward rolling on a landing.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
You can't ever get the full benefits of a movement power, they're just too fast. The best you could do is roll up a Kinetics.
That said, Combat Jumping and Hurdle socketed with three Jump IOs is the fastest you could go on your MM. Add sets that increase all movement and you'd be quite fast.
Quote:
Officially summoning BaBs for a discussion on the possibility of 'movement style' (and 'idle style') animations that you set on your options for that give things a little more pizzazz. Like having you do a flip (maybe randomly?) when you jump, or even a momentary 'wall cling' animation when you collide with a vertical obstacle.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Combat Jumping and Hurdle make for a decent semi-travel power.
The key thing missing from the true parkour style of travelling is forward rolling on a landing. |
For instance, one character could set it so that they do delicate ballet style leaps, while another does awkward hulking squat jumps.
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Positron apparently told them to get on with allowing super speeders to run on water, maybe they can take it a step further and allow temporary running on vertical surfaces. (I say this knowing full well that I don't know squat about what would be involved in such a task.)
As to the OP, I find that I'm perfectly happy with sprint, swift, quickness, combat jumping and a few +movement setIO buffs in missions, but I use fly outside of missions.
Be well, people of CoH.
Running on walls, I expect, will come with a swinging/wall crawling sets. That is, when they re-code all surfaces in the game to allow said interaction.
Hate to say it, it's a limitation I doubt will be overcome. The way much of the game seems to work is around flat surfaces, vertical surfaces seem to function as nothing more than barriers. (And not so much an intractable surface.)
But that's just my assumption from watching the game do its thing.
>edit< but back on topic: jump enhancements are your friend. I've found swift to be rather slow in its bonus, and hurdle far better. For "non-travel" builds, the are also +run speed enhancements in the defense gift of the ancients set, and plenty of +speed bonuses are around.
Hurdle with a single SO and CJ is roughly equivalent to fly with a single SO in it
Slot 2 lvl 50 Jump IOs in Hurdle and one or two in CJ (the speed bonus in CJ is really small, but the extra height is nice) and you've got yourself a decent travel power, just be sure to keep your raptor pack handy in case you come up to something you can't quite jump over.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
Quote:
With CJ, even the slightest of degree off 90 seems to allow one to "climb" walls. On a true 90, even the small window ledges allow one to scale a wall quickly, as if climbing. One would think they could do something with that mechanic, but they have a tendency to prefer to do things the "right" way or not at all (a good thing, IMO, despite the fact that I think they err that way when they do not need to on rare occasions).
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Originally Posted by Seldom
Hate to say it, it's a limitation I doubt will be overcome. The way much of the game seems to work is around flat surfaces, vertical surfaces seem to function as nothing more than barriers. (And not so much an intractable surface.)
But that's just my assumption from watching the game do its thing |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Run Speed: 14.3 mph
Run Speed + Sprint: 21.5 mph
Run Speed + Sprint w/ 1 Run SO: 23.9 mph
Run Speed + Sprint w/ 1 Run SO + Swift: 28.9 mph
Run Speed + Sprint w/ 1 Run SO + Swift w/ 1 Run SO = 30.5 mph
Thus the Bonuses to RunSpeed....
Sprint = + 7.2 mph
Swift = +5 mph
Run SO in Sprint = +2.4 mph
Run SO in Swift = +1.6 mph
And thus (with ED):
3 Run SOs in Sprint = +6.8 mph
3 Run SOs in Swift = +4.7 mph
So let's say you 3-slot Sprint with Run SOs, your run speed will be: 28.3 mph
Add Swift and one Run SO in the default slot of Swift, your Run speed will be: 35 mph
Two more slots in Swift will bring it up to: 38 mph.
And now, Jump:
Jump Speed: 14.3 mph
Jump Height: 4 ft
Jump Speed + Sprint: 14.3 mph // 4.4 ft
Jump Speed + Sprint w/ 1 Jump SO: 14.3 mph // 4.5 ft
Jump Speed + Hurdle: 32.1 mph // 10.7 ft
Jump Speed + Hurdle w/ 1 Jump SO: 38.1 mph // 12.9 ft
Jump Speed + Combat Jumping: 14.5 mph // 12.0 ft
Jump Speed + Combat Jumping w/ 1 Jump SO: 38.1 mph // 14.7 ft
Thus the Bonuses to Jump Speed and Height...
Sprint = +0 mph JumpSpeed // +0.4 ft JumpHeight
Hurdle = +17.8 mph JumpSpeed // +6.7 ft JumpHeight
Combat Jumping = +0.2 mph JumpSpeed // +8.0 ft JumpHeight
Jump SO in Sprint = +0 mph JumpSpeed // +.1 ft JumpHeight
Jump SO in Hurdle = +6.0 mph JumpSpeed // +2.2 ft. JumpHeight
Jump SO in Combat Jumping = +0.07 mph JumpSpeed // +2.7 ft JumpHeight
So, for increasing unsuppressable JumpSpeed, 3-slotting Hurdle is your best move (anything else is *very* inefficient) which would make your JumpSpeed = 49.1 mph.
=============
SuperSpeed
BaseRunSpeed = 21 ft/s = 14.31818 mph
SuperSpeedBuff = BaseRunspeed * LevelMod * (1 + EnhancementAfterED)
SuperSpeedFinal = BaseRunSpeed + SuperSpeedBuff
Level 6: 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 2.603) = 51.6 mph
Level 14: 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 2.767) = 53.9 mph
Level 25: 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 2.992) = 57.2 mph
Level 35 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 3.197) = 60.1 mph
Level 50: 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 3.5) = 64.4 mph
Level 50 + SO: 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 3.5 * 1.333) = 81.1 mph
SuperJump
BaseJumpSpeed = 21 ft/s = 14.31818 mph
SuperJumpBuff = BaseJumpSpeed * LevelMod * (1 + EnhancementAfterED)
SuperJumpFinal = BaseJumpSpeed + SuperJumpBuff
Level 6: 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 2.05) = 43.7 mph
Level 14: 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 2.13) = 44.8 mph
Level 25: 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 2.24) = 46.4 mph
Level 35 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 2.34) = 47.8 mph
Level 50: 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 2.49) = 50 mph
Level 50 + SO: 14.31818 + (14.31818 * 2.49 * 1.333) = 61.8 mph
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Quote:
Flight speed is capped at 58.6 mph. Fly is also the most popular travel power, according to developer data mining. I can make Hurdle + CJ builds which exceed 58.6 mph. So your claim that travel powers are "too fast" is clearly in error.|
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
You can't ever get the full benefits of a movement power, they're just too fast.
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And readers should also keep in mind that those "full benefits" come with corresponding penalties, such as high endurance costs and travel power suppression, things Hurdlers don't have to live with.
Quote:
Hurdle + CJ, each with one +0 Jump SO, gets you to 38.3 mph.|
Originally Posted by Psyonico
Hurdle with a single SO and CJ is roughly equivalent to fly with a single SO in it
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Fly with one +0 SO hits 51.7 mph.
And slotting CJ may be detrimental to your overall speed. TopDoc's testing indicated that hitting a certain jump height resulted in decreased forward speed.
Three-slotting Hurdle, not slotting CJ with Jump enhancements and picking up as many +Movement/Jump bonuses as possible is the way to go. You want fast, shallow leaps, not high bounding jumps.
Quote:
To be fair, that's with significant boosts from movespeed set bonuses, which is not usually a major build focus.
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Originally Posted by Luminara
I can make Hurdle + CJ builds which exceed 58.6 mph.
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Quote:
the bonus comes in some decent sets that are relatively cheap, you don't necessarily have to build for the bonus to get it
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
To be fair, that's with significant boosts from movespeed set bonuses, which is not usually a major build focus.
|
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
You know, I never thought of Parkour as a 'travel power'. I always saw it as maximizing your Existing travel powers, by creative usage of the 'obstacles' in your path.
I CoH, that means zipping up bridge embankments, instead of being Stopped by that wall. Or hopping from the top of a Dumpster to a ledge, running along that, then hopping to a low rooftop, and from there to the top of a warehouse, and crossing Over the building, instead of being forced to run Around it.
I vividly recall running through dangerous neigborhoods, by hopping and popping fences and walls, ducking away from those nasty purple things lurking in the alleys. And the screech of terror that runs through your mind in mid-laughter, when you duck away from those gang-bangers, only to find yourself blind-jumping into a crowd of Vahzilok.
And the same skills come into play, when you're SK'd to someone and have to cover ground the old-fashioned way, after they blithely Fly to the next mission.
Frankly, I tend to give a crash course in CoH Parkour to every newbie I hook up with, because it's So Useful!
Be Well!
Fireheart
Quote:
Bill- I hope you are right about speedsters being able to run on water. You don't have a link to that post do you? It would make my day if I could read that for myself.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Positron apparently told them to get on with allowing super speeders to run on water, maybe they can take it a step further and allow temporary running on vertical surfaces. (I say this knowing full well that I don't know squat about what would be involved in such a task.)
As to the OP, I find that I'm perfectly happy with sprint, swift, quickness, combat jumping and a few +movement setIO buffs in missions, but I use fly outside of missions. |
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"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Not off hand. I read it in the really big herocon GR thread.
Be well, people of CoH.
I know the OP stated "without a travel power" but really SS + CJ + Hurdle and you have the CoH version of parkour. This is especially true in the Rogue Isles where there are a lot of vertical obstacles.
BTW Hurdle + CJ may equal or even surpass Fly in straight line speed but I'll race you across Grandville and bet Fly wins every time.
If they let us run on water I hope they can give us the option to still swim if we want to. And different strokes while we're at it.
I just buy the 30 day jetpack, I pay for my sub with gift cards so it's a great way to use the money left over.
Quote:
I've changed my opinion about that since then. Hadn't fully though through all of the ancillary things connected to swimming...namely using powers and hit reactions. Seemed feasible at first thought, but I now realize there's a lot of outliers I didn't consider that would probably not look good.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Not off hand. I read it in the really big herocon GR thread.
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In other words:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
*damage control!*
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I would LOVE it if we had various run styles that incorporated the dynamicism of Parkour... but I can't imagine something like this happening with how animations currently work in this game. I do have fantasies of a game engine with some sort of dynamic inverse kinematic engine built into it, permitting really cool animations as you plant a foot and a hand on whatever is around. But I've yet to see it, even in titles that tried to come close such as "the Force Unleashed."
Quote:
Not so much...that's just one of those things that happens when you're asked to vet an idea on the spot.|
Originally Posted by Weatherby Goode
In other words:
|
I thought about the problem purely in terms of making a player avatar appear to run on the surface of the water, rather than swim...but didn't think about all of the things that also happen in the water outside of swimming around. Powers/Attacks, hit reactions, even jumping out of the water...all of those things rely on the player standing on a surface below that water's surface.
I also haven't yet thought about all of the things that I haven't thought about needing to think about.
um....I think it would be pretty easy.
as far as jumping Go ahead run across Independence Port with SS and start jumping. I dunno about you but it looks like I'm skipping on the surface not jumping from that fake bottom in "deep" water.
I may be over simplifying this but if we could run on the surface it would only be with Super Speed and moving un-surpressed. If we get slowed down due to attacking or being attacked we should realistically break the surface tension of the water and get wet.
How's this for Parkour?
(with Sprint active)
RunSpeed: 60.3mph
JumpSpeed: 56mph
JumpHeight: 27.7ft
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Freerunner: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Bash
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (9) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (34) Kinetic Combat - Knockdown Bonus
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
- (34) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (37) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance
- (37) Aegis - Resistance
- (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
- (5) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (9) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (31) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (50) Kismet - Accuracy +6%
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (7) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (7) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (48) Run Speed IO
- (50) Run Speed IO
- (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (11) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (11) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (37) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
- (13) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
- (13) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (17) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (31) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (15) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (15) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (17) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Kinetic Combat - Knockdown Bonus
- (A) Jumping IO
- (46) Jumping IO
- (46) Jumping IO
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (19) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (19) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (23) Kinetic Combat - Knockdown Bonus
- (A) Endurance Modification IO
- (21) Endurance Modification IO
- (21) Endurance Modification IO
- (A) Run Speed IO
- (43) Run Speed IO
- (43) Run Speed IO
- (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (25) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (25) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (39) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (27) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (27) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (40) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (A) Analyze Weakness - Defense Debuff
- (29) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Defense Debuff
- (29) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Recharge
- (36) Analyze Weakness - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
- (36) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (39) Defense Buff IO
- (39) Defense Buff IO
- (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage
- (33) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
- (33) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge
- (33) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
- (34) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (36) Miracle - +Recovery
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
- (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
- (42) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge
- (42) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (42) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (43) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
- (45) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
- (45) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
- (45) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Kinetic Combat - Knockdown Bonus
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (48) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
- (A) HamiO:Microfilament Exposure
- (40) HamiO:Microfilament Exposure
- (40) HamiO:Microfilament Exposure
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 3% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 3% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 3% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 3% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 3% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 3% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 3% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 3% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 18% Defense(Smashing)
- 18% Defense(Lethal)
- 4.56% Defense(Fire)
- 4.56% Defense(Cold)
- 10.5% Defense(Energy)
- 10.5% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 10.5% Defense(Melee)
- 6.75% Defense(Ranged)
- 6.13% Defense(AoE)
- 41% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 42% FlySpeed
- 64.3 HP (6%) HitPoints
- 42% JumpHeight
- 42% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -8)
- Knockup (Mag -8)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 11%
- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 7.5% (0.13 End/sec) Recovery
- 20% (1.07 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 3.13% Resistance(Negative)
- 3% Resistance(Psionic)
- 84.5% RunSpeed
Set Bonuses:
Kinetic Combat
(Bash)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 16.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)
- 5% RunSpeed, 5% FlySpeed, 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight
(Bane Spider Armor Upgrade)
- 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
- Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
- 3% Defense(All)
(Bane Spider Armor Upgrade)
- 5% RunSpeed
- 3% Resistance(Psionic)
(Mace Beam)
- 2% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
- 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight
(Combat Training: Defensive)
- 7.5% RunSpeed
(Build Up)
- 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
(Tactical Training: Maneuvers)
- 7.5% RunSpeed
(Poisonous Ray)
- 2% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
- 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight
(Pulverize)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 16.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)
- 5% RunSpeed, 5% FlySpeed, 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight
(Shatter)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 16.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)
- 5% RunSpeed, 5% FlySpeed, 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight
(Cloaking Device)
- 7.5% RunSpeed
(Maneuvers)
- 7.5% RunSpeed
(Surveillance)
- 10% (0.54 HP/sec) Regeneration
- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 11% Enhancement(Accuracy)
(Combat Jumping)
- 7.5% RunSpeed
(Crowd Control)
- 10% (0.54 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 3.13% Resistance(Negative)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
(Wolf Spider Armor)
- Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
(Mace Blast)
- 2% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
- 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight
(Shatter Armor)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 16.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)
- 5% RunSpeed, 5% FlySpeed, 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight
(Tactical Training: Leadership)
- 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
I know you have a MM but just wanted to chime in with saying that when I was lvl'ing up my main char. (Kin/Rad Def.) I didn't get a travel power because Siphon Speed + IR was all I needed (granted Siphon Speed had that lovely bug where if you used SS on a low/gray-conned mob it'd make you run faster than if you used SS on a white/anything-higher conned mob)....but still..it was nice. 
I know one of my sgmates (who isn't playing anymore) had quite a few characters that didn't have travel powers...this was back in the 'old days' when there were no temps...although his SR scrapper wasn't bad he said because of the Swift+Sprint+Quickness+Elude.
Anyways....
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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I've heard some people talking about utilizing certain powers/ combinations of power/ power/ IO combos to get the benefits of a movement power without an actual movement power, which I figure would make for a good "parkour" using character, so, does anybody know how I can go about doing this? note, the Character I have in mind is a lvl 50 MM so this will involve respecing, but if anybody knows how to do this from the ground up I'd be happy too.
I already know about Lightning Reflexes and quickness, anybody have any other ideas?
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