Anticipate any new game engine mechanics in GR?
By
Chompie,
Posted on: 2009-10-23 16:22 in Player Questions
Will there be new mechanics? Yes. Will they be what you're asking about? No one knows.
We do know there will be a new system for post-50 development, and a way to switch sides. How those will apply to new and different missions, and what we may see in Praetoria remains to be seen. Since Hero-con is this weekend, stay tuned for all the goodie announcements that will be hitting the forums soon. A lot of stuff is being hinted to pop at the con.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Really, there aren't so many more examples from other games. Interactive terrain you can break is really a biggie, minigames are another, and that's about it that any game anywhere has. The only other differences are variations on what is already listed. Clicking items on the ground in WoW for a collection quest? No different from glowies except the ones in WoW don't glow. Whacking peons in the orc start zone? No different from the PvP patrol missions in CoH except for the humor and the animation.|
Originally Posted by Heliopause
There are tons of examples from other games which could be examples.
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Now, riding a giant in the frozen wastelands and using it's powers instead of your own? Very cool minigame. Or RuneScape's soduko puzzles as a minigame for a locked chest you need to open, and their anti-farming minigames? Very fun.
But in terms of mission mechanics, just giving different clothing to the same action isn't really a big deal to me and 90% of the differences come down to "different clothing - same action". That said, my biggest desire would be some voice overs and more animation.
Only finally getting a huge body type for females comes close to my desire for in game voices.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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When I call them glowies, everyone gets confused and has no idea what the hell I'm talking about. |
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Clicking items on the ground in WoW for a collection quest? No different from glowies except the ones in WoW don't glow
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When CoH first was released some folks started calling them glowies, some folks called them clickies -- glowies is the name that stuck. In fact one of the tip screens when zoning refers to them as "glowies". Paragonwiki.com also referrs to them as glowies in its Mission Overview section. When AE was introduced zillions of new players came on board and the term clickie started making the rounds again.|
Originally Posted by Chompie
When I call them glowies, everyone gets confused and has no idea what the hell I'm talking about.
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Personally I find it fascinating that games have an actual etymology, and one specific to that game. In CoX we have "afk for bio", which came from "biobreak", which came from "biological break", which was a joke someone cracked instead of saying "bathroom break." I can't off the top of my head think of some of the others we use but I know there are.
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Actually, they do now.|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Clicking items on the ground in WoW for a collection quest? No different from glowies except the ones in WoW don't glow.
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Well, sort of sparkle rather than glow, but same difference.
Enemies not attacking until attacked (like the praetorian clockwork) is new to this game. normally if something can attack you, it will (unless it cons gray of course).
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
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I always chuckle when games misuse the "pst" which is short for "please send tell". Some games have "whisper" or other words for private communication ,and nearly everyone says "Please PST". Kind of like "Please RSVP". Hehe.|
Originally Posted by Heliopause
Personally I find it fascinating that games have an actual etymology, and one specific to that game. In CoX we have "afk for bio", which came from "biobreak", which came from "biological break", which was a joke someone cracked instead of saying "bathroom break." I can't off the top of my head think of some of the others we use but I know there are.
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The QFT here is "quoted for truth" whereas every other game I've seen it used it is the exact opposite as "Quit F#$%^ng Talking". Man that one confused the heck outta me when I first came to these forums.
We have respec, whereas most games have retrain.
Can't think of any others myself though.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
The use of DPS to mean Damage per second over the period of the power's casting plus it's recharge, rather than what it means in most games which is how much Damage an attack does in one second of casting time.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
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I would love to see the city of Paragon be opened up sandbox style similar to WoW. Then there would be no reason for my Superhero w/ insane run speed to HAVE to take a train to the part of the city 400yrds away. I highly doubt that will ever be done, but I would gladly pay for a full new game ($50) to see that happen. I think thats one of the detractors from CoH takign over WoW, but thats just my 2 inf.
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It's not clear to me that this was occurring. I watched the presentation live (and from a pretty close seat), and there was no targeting reticle present, so it was impossible to tell whether the Praetorian Clockwork conned gray to the player or not.|
Originally Posted by Deadedge
Enemies not attacking until attacked (like the praetorian clockwork) is new to this game. normally if something can attack you, it will (unless it cons gray of course).
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If they DO manage that change to the aggro system in GR (and further, perhaps propogating it into Paragon and the Rogue Isles at a later time), it'll be a really neat change.
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I can't remember where I saw it; I think it was earlier in the keynotes presentation, but didn't one of the devs say something along the lines of "They won't bother you as long as you leave them alone" with regards to the Praetorian Clockwork?
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Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
It's not clear to me that this was occurring. I watched the presentation live (and from a pretty close seat), and there was no targeting reticle present, so it was impossible to tell whether the Praetorian Clockwork conned gray to the player or not.
If they DO manage that change to the aggro system in GR (and further, perhaps propogating it into Paragon and the Rogue Isles at a later time), it'll be a really neat change. |
@Roderick
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It would mean even more lowbies screaming for invites in PI
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Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
It's not clear to me that this was occurring. I watched the presentation live (and from a pretty close seat), and there was no targeting reticle present, so it was impossible to tell whether the Praetorian Clockwork conned gray to the player or not.
If they DO manage that change to the aggro system in GR (and further, perhaps propogating it into Paragon and the Rogue Isles at a later time), it'll be a really neat change. |
OP said
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... I'm torn here. I want to mock the OP for lack of specifics, but I know that if the OP had given specifics, some tiny irrelevant specific point would have become the entire discussion. | There are tons of examples from other games which could be examples. |
There are a lot of people for whom ToTing is the perfect activity; walk up and down the street while someone shovels monsters at you in neverending stream. Any slightly difficult tasks ("find the mission door under Brickstown", "unlock your level 35 SO's", "do more than one mission to get your contact's cell number", etc.) have been complained about nonstop since early 2004- and most of them have been 'fixed'.
My point is that any time you DO have a faintly nonstandard interaction ("do this mission in the RWZ without triggering the Death Ambush") people hate it to death.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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It's been that way since April, 2004. Why should it be any different now?
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Originally Posted by Dragon_Feeder
It would mean even more lowbies screaming for invites in PI
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If you're not going to use that nit, can I pick it?
June.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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*throws up hands* You mean to tell me that lowbies never screamed for PLing before PI was put in? What is this world coming to!
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
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i remember them doing PL's in Brickstown before Issue 1 came out.
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Originally Posted by SunGryphon
*throws up hands* You mean to tell me that lowbies never screamed for PLing before PI was put in? What is this world coming to!
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Yeah, I'm one of those ToTers. 'Click door, recieve enemy, FIGHT' is pretty much my perfect time. Especially since my connection is slow and it takes a while for missions to load. And I recently got a gamepad which makes melee toons much more fun.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
OP said
... I'm torn here. I want to mock the OP for lack of specifics, but I know that if the OP had given specifics, some tiny irrelevant specific point would have become the entire discussion. There are a lot of people for whom ToTing is the perfect activity; walk up and down the street while someone shovels monsters at you in neverending stream. Any slightly difficult tasks ("find the mission door under Brickstown", "unlock your level 35 SO's", "do more than one mission to get your contact's cell number", etc.) have been complained about nonstop since early 2004- and most of them have been 'fixed'. My point is that any time you DO have a faintly nonstandard interaction ("do this mission in the RWZ without triggering the Death Ambush") people hate it to death. |
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Last year I got with a group of friends on one of our sorta min/maxed villain teams in their early 40s (I say sorta because we all picked ATs and powersets we wanted to play, but arranged them in a way to stack buffs and debuffs. No fancy builds or anything).|
Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
Yeah, I'm one of those ToTers. 'Click door, recieve enemy, FIGHT' is pretty much my perfect time. Especially since my connection is slow and it takes a while for missions to load. And I recently got a gamepad which makes melee toons much more fun.
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I think the difficulty settings were affecting spawn levels last year, IIRC. Anyway, we were set to Invinc as usual, and headed to grandville. Parked by some sets of double doors. Had all 8 click simultaneously on one door, then spam on the second to get it as soon as we were able to click again.
I'm normally not much into farming, but that was *FUN*. Many, many purple mobs, bosses, etc, spewing out of the doors at once into our ice slick/tar patch trap. With so many of them, it felt like they might actually have a chance to faceplent us before the fulcrum shift went off
Only did it for a couple hours, but I think we gained 2 or 3 levels and got a ton and a half of halloween salvage.
WoW's outdoor glowies are one thing I kind of like. Really though it'd just be like putting the glowies we have... outdoors! Really, I think what I want to see is more stuff that happens outside of instanced missions. More raids and zone events would be spiffy. But the important thing is to make it be things that people can't interfere with, screw up, and ruin. So far that hasn't happened, but adding rare enemies with rare drops and things would cause problems. I think our staff is smart enough to avoid that though.
I think of the MMOs I've played, Guild Wars has the most interesting missions. Most MMOs have the classic 3:
1) Kill X number of enemies (including to get X number of drops)
2) Find X number of objects
3) Talk to so-and-so
Guild Wars has cooler stuff though. You get environmental effects, interactable objects, and more interesting defend/survive scenarios that CoH really just doesn't have. There's never a turret you can fire, or doors you can shut. There's never archers on the roof you have to take down, or a point you have to hold against invasions. And you only get very occasional environment effects like lava or Circle crystals. I'd love to see a whole lot more of stuff like that.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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You are right, Guild Wars had cooler stuff. However, your forgetting something. Actually, alot of things. Lets compare a few things, without even getting into the missions.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I think of the MMOs I've played, Guild Wars has the most interesting missions. Most MMOs have the classic 3:
1) Kill X number of enemies (including to get X number of drops) 2) Find X number of objects 3) Talk to so-and-so Guild Wars has cooler stuff though. You get environmental effects, interactable objects, and more interesting defend/survive scenarios that CoH really just doesn't have. There's never a turret you can fire, or doors you can shut. There's never archers on the roof you have to take down, or a point you have to hold against invasions. And you only get very occasional environment effects like lava or Circle crystals. I'd love to see a whole lot more of stuff like that. |
Level caps: CoX: 50 and Guild Wars = 20.
Zones: CoX total (so far, and just the normal zones, not mission maps): about 49. Now Guild wars (And this is Cities and the zones out and around it, but not the mission maps most cities have): 35+ And thats JUST counts the towns and areas ONLY in the Prophecies game (the first Guild Wars) and only counting from the two Regions: Ascalon and Kryta just two out of 6 in that ONE game, not including the other 2 stand alones in the series AND the expantion.
# of Skills Total: CoH is a limit of 18 Powers from their powersets, and a total of 16 from 4 power pools, and another 4-6+ from Epic Power pools. Now then, they can use as many of those skills as they want. Guild wars is limit to only being able to use 8 skills TOTAL on any one mission and only 1 can be an Elite Skill (unless they capture an elite or more than one while in a mission without entering town), however, they can choose (if they have the money and/or skill points to buy them all) around about 150-200 skills PER profession.
Final thing to take in mind. CoX is SMALL, I mean very very VERY small. only 49 and thats including Heroes, Villians, PVP, and shared maps, while Guild Wars is HUGE expanding many continents even. But also Most of CoX's stuff and content, like 80-90%, is BEFORE hitting max level. While EVERYTHING past the training area is Max level for Guild Wars. You can't compair the two games, cause everything in CoX has to be based on different levels, different skills and combinations, but also on the small amount of people that play and the small size of the game. It's smaller than many MMOs I have played. Also, Guild Wars is all "end game" content, but also Guild Wars, tho has a few repeatable quests, actually HAS a story line, it does have an ending, it has movies, plot and plot twists, you can probably even make a book out of it from the beginning to the end just doing the main missions.
Wow I typed alot... Everyone probably skipped it, so basicly what else CAN you add? The game is small, small now, small when Going Rogue will come out, Small in 100+ years! Do not expect anything big. Also, this game already has some very unique things I have never seen in other games I would like to see in ones, the big one being that there ARE Evirmental stuff that effects the plays, the monster events. The Giant monsters that spawn inside of the cities every few hours and or days, the Clock Paladin that actually like the best cause he doesn't just spawn he get's build from scratch and you can actually hunt him down and such. Also the Zombie and Rikit invasions are unique as well. As for more stuff in the open areas, we do have mobs, we have the invasions, the giant monsters, we do have missions that require going into other buildings and such, stuff no other game has. What more could you ask for? why do you think things as small as what your asking, has never been added? cause it isn't needed. ok, thats the end of my rant, and if people don't like it, and or flame me for it, I'll happily, if the forum lets me, delete the post.
PS. Yes my spelling does suck, so no ranting and flaming cause of that!
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I'll grant you most of those points- CoH is very short on levers to pull and doors to open and close, carousels of death or whatever. It is ALSO totally devoid of 31 degree slopes that you cannot climb, forcing you to go hundreds of yards out of your way. At walking speed. (I don't know if newer MMO's have that or not, but it's on my list of Pointless Stupid MMO Irritations.) |
Originally Posted by Dispari
WoW's outdoor glowies are one thing I kind of like. Really though it'd just be like putting the glowies we have... outdoors! Really, I think what I want to see is more stuff that happens outside of instanced missions. More raids and zone events would be spiffy. But the important thing is to make it be things that people can't interfere with, screw up, and ruin. So far that hasn't happened, but adding rare enemies with rare drops and things would cause problems. I think our staff is smart enough to avoid that though.
I think of the MMOs I've played, Guild Wars has the most interesting missions. Most MMOs have the classic 3: 1) Kill X number of enemies (including to get X number of drops) 2) Find X number of objects 3) Talk to so-and-so Guild Wars has cooler stuff though. You get environmental effects, interactable objects, and more interesting defend/survive scenarios that CoH really just doesn't have. There's never a turret you can fire, or doors you can shut. There's never archers on the roof you have to take down, or a point you have to hold against invasions. And you only get very occasional environment effects like lava or Circle crystals. I'd love to see a whole lot more of stuff like that. |
Croatoa storyline has two "defend/survive" missions - "prevent 30 Red Caps from escaping" and ... whatever it's called, where you rescue the mystics and then hold the hill for 15 minutes against waves of oncoming redcaps. The first one is one of the most hated missions in the game while the second is actually quite popular (at least, among the small group of people I know.)
I'm not quite sure about the "archers on the roof" - everything in this game is designed to be accessible to melee characters with no specific travel power, or almost everything. I mean, do the Longbow patrols around ships in CoV count? Teleporting Gunslingers? Snipers in Founders?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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There ARE a few of the elements I noted in the game, but they're few and far between. There's the Croatoa mission where you have to defend the hill. There's also the "defend the reactor" which we all know to be slow and repetitive.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
I'll grant you most of those points- CoH is very short on levers to pull and doors to open and close, carousels of death or whatever. It is ALSO totally devoid of 31 degree slopes that you cannot climb, forcing you to go hundreds of yards out of your way. At walking speed. (I don't know if newer MMO's have that or not, but it's on my list of Pointless Stupid MMO Irritations.)
Croatoa storyline has two "defend/survive" missions - "prevent 30 Red Caps from escaping" and ... whatever it's called, where you rescue the mystics and then hold the hill for 15 minutes against waves of oncoming redcaps. The first one is one of the most hated missions in the game while the second is actually quite popular (at least, among the small group of people I know.) I'm not quite sure about the "archers on the roof" - everything in this game is designed to be accessible to melee characters with no specific travel power, or almost everything. I mean, do the Longbow patrols around ships in CoV count? Teleporting Gunslingers? Snipers in Founders? |
We also occasionally get gadgets to use. Ostres Rifle for Liberty or other clicky type powers. The latest Reichsman TF has a few things to fiddle with.
Generally though, in addition to being ultra-rare, they're usually sloppily implemented. No offense to our devs. But the waves in the reactor have been putting people to sleep for ages, and we rarely get any good objects to interact with.
From GW, the ascention mission Prophecy-side where you have to hold down a fort while waves of enemies swarm in. And you get large crossbow weapons to destroy some groups if you have people manning them. GW also sometimes has you carry heavy objects from one location to another. You can put them down whenever, but carrying them makes you unable to use abilities. And they have places with archers, although it's always possible to reach them (even if not immediately). And things like opening/closing gates, or blowing up walls. I recall a mission where you have to carry powder kegs to locations to open up new areas. And a mission escorting giant turtles across a battlefield and trying to keep a certain number alive. Those types of elements are more interesting and fun than the basic mix of my "classic 3" above.
On the other hand, GW is more heavily based on the succeed/fail concept than CoH is. In CoH, most missions are unfailable, and those that are rarely hold significant consequences. In CoH a teamwipe just means you jog back and try again, while in GW it can often mean game over. So that's one heavy consideration when trying to implement new concepts like protecting an object or escorting killable hostages.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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We kinda get those... Go Patrol Steel Canyon for clockwork activity!
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Originally Posted by Dispari
WoW's outdoor glowies are one thing I kind of like. Really though it'd just be like putting the glowies we have... outdoors!
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Have you heard any inkling of news on possible new game mechanics being introduced as part of Going Rogue? I've for so long hoped for employment of new game engine mechanics to add some depth and variety to missions, TFs and such. Clicking glowies, killing stuff, or escorting are essentially the available tasks in the gaming engine to complete all mission objectives. Being able to interact with the world environment and objects in new and innovative ways as mission tasks in otherwords.
Also the otherway around as well, the world environment and objects interacting with me in new and innovative ways. Being ambushed and baddie dialogue are how the world mostly interacts with me currently. Mind you not new ways of interacting with the UI per se, they've definitely added new ways of interacting with my user interface. And please don't say they'll be lots of new Content. :-) More stuff to read and contacts to talk to aren't what I mean. There are tons of examples from other games which could be examples.
My post would also fall into the game suggestion thread.