Less saving the world please!
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2009-10-17 24:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Mr. Incredible said it best...
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Sometimes I like getting involved in the more personal stories the game has to offer - Maddie Casey's arc in particular. Not fighting to save the world, just one person's world.
| No matter how many times you save the world, it always seems to get back in jeopardy again. I want it to STAY SAVED, y'know? Just for a little bit? I feel like the maid. I just cleaned up this mess, can we keep it clean? FOR TEN MINUTES? |
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
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Distressed Civilian: Yo miss hero, open this pickle jar please.|
Originally Posted by MageX
Moar catz in treez, purse thievez, ladies in distress and the still absent pickle jar. WHY does no one call a hero in Paragon to open a pickle jar ?
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Gunbunny: Okay citizen (grabs her trusty AR)
Distressed Civilian: Uhm, you su......
Gunbunny: Die! Die! Die! Demon spawned Pickle Yar!
BUDDA BUDDA BUDDA, Twoomp, Whoosh!
Gunbunny: At your service citizen,that jar wont bother you anymore!
Distressed Civilian staring at the contents of the pickle jar spread all over the place: Uhm thanks I guess.
Thats why.
This really is a split subject isnt it 
pratically 50/50 on whether or not we should have less epic arcs everyone is
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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*huh* Crimson and Indigo might disagree with you there.
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Upper level stories should be of some significance, but the earth shouldn't be in peril every single day. There should be a middle ground, of course.
You can't just send L45+ Heroes to go pick up your dry cleaning. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Well, many of those are "go see if the funny readings in dimension pudding-cup1276b are a malfunction" with the world-threat angle IMO being the contact blowing smoke up our *** because they think we'll be too proud to run their errands otherwise. |
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
Any high level PI arc.
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| Faultline arcs [if you dont get the machine back, then its pratically goodbye earth] |
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| The war of the red caps - who knows what state the world would become if our worlds/dimensions became one |
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| Striga Island - stop the council from attacking and destroying our city! |
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| Rikti war zone - speaks for itself. |
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| Cimerora - to save the future, one must save the past [how we dont know, but its what we are told] |
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| Circle of thorns - constantly trying to summon a powerfull demon into our world that'll conquer us all. |
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| Nemesis - trying to claim the planet as his own |
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| Nictus - Wants to destroy/enslave life |
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| Devouring earth - see above |
(To be fair, at least the DE have made some progress in claiming some territory for their new order.)Quote:
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Thats just off the top of my head Basically we are constantly saving a device of some kind that if left in the hands of the villains, could cause major damage to earth
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Now, now. You're not picking up their dry cleaning. You're just serving as a very bulky and inefficient SMS service.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
*huh* Crimson and Indigo might disagree with you there.
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"*pant* *pant* (good god woman why do you have to stand at the top of this gigantic hill) Uh... hi. Crimson says he... " (hero pulls out reading glasses, peers at slip of paper) "'luvz u lotz.'"
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This.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Now, now. You're not picking up their dry cleaning. You're just serving as a very bulky and inefficient SMS service.
"*pant* *pant* (good god woman why do you have to stand at the top of this gigantic hill) Uh... hi. Crimson says he... " (hero pulls out reading glasses, peers at slip of paper) "'luvz u lotz.'" |
Also, does one of them have a jealous ex-girlfriend who joined the KoA? Because there's an ambush right......*urk*
*falls over from a Broadsword swing, landing in a pile of caltrops.
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They're Indy's sorority sisters. They keep trying to interfere with the thing she's got going with Crimson because *tsk* he's SO not RIGHT for you, girl!
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Also, does one of them have a jealous ex-girlfriend who joined the KoA?
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The writers must have seen that interpretation coming when they gave Crimson the "I love that girl like a daughter" line. It falls short, though. My stock response is, "Oh, so that's how things are in your family. Gotcha."
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
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I think it's entirely based upon perception. As street level heroes ranging from Luke Cage to Batman have commented to their more super powered comrades, while the evil demigod needs to be punched in the mouth, just outright ignoring street level crime causes you to save a world where the normal people more or less have to live their lives suffering. Of course there's also the issue of storytelling since you can have an exciting story about (super powered) street level crime and a boring story about saving the world.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's the sort of response I envision street level crime eliciting in someone who just beat up the strongest villain in an entire alternate dimension and saved the strongest hero of ours: meh.
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Just look at player villains. How many homicidal psychopaths, mercenaries, criminal masterminds and such do we level up to 50? Are they a global threat? Not most of them, no. But they are powerful villains, who threaten the well-being of innocent citizens, and as such require a powerful hero to stop them.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Well, yeah, but... Let me put it this way - if you don't brush your teeth, you get lots of cavities and eventually lose them. You SHOULD brush them, and to not do so is irresponsible. But that doesn't make it INTERESTING. Not nearly as interesting as, say, going to an amusement part that one time in the year. And, predictably, your mind is going to retain a lot more memories from that one amusement park visit than from brushing your teeth every day.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
I think it's entirely based upon perception. As street level heroes ranging from Luke Cage to Batman have commented to their more super powered comrades, while the evil demigod needs to be punched in the mouth, just outright ignoring street level crime causes you to save a world where the normal people more or less have to live their lives suffering. Of course there's also the issue of storytelling since you can have an exciting story about (super powered) street level crime and a boring story about saving the world.
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I view street-level crime in super-powered universes the same way - controlling it is important and vital, but hardly the gripping action and drama that actually moves the story. It's there, it happens, and it ought to be depicted happening every now and then. But that's not what it's all about, not if you can arm-wrestle gods and move mountains. If you can do that, chances are there's something much bigger that's going to come up and THAT will be what's interesting in the story.
That quote you quoted wasn't to say fighting street crime wasn't IMPORTANT, but that it wasn't INTERESTING. I don't avoid pitting my absurdly powerful characters against street crime when it comes to that, but I just depict them solving it with all the glory and fanfare of someone toothpicking a weenie at a cocktail party. It's there, it happens, let's deal with it and get back to the tasks that CAN'T be done by anyone else.
There's also this tiering system that I think may well be unique to Paragon City. Usually in super hero stories, you have a few heroes. Sometimes you even have many, though such gatherings are rare. I am not aware, however, of any story that deals with a whole CITY of them, and we have literally hundreds of thousands of heroes. And not only that, but we have hundreds of thousands of villains, and crime occurring every time you turn your back. It's safe to say, then, that in Paragon City, you look at your own power bracket, and you trust the other heroes to handle things in their own brackets. Say you're on your way to stop a nuclear bomb and you see a man being mugged. OK, you stop to help. The reality, though, is that you'll see dozens of them on your way, and if you stopped to help every one of them, the bomb would go off. Instead, you have to trust that a hero who's actually in that level bracket will be about to help. And since the city is crawling with them, that's usually a safe bet.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well, speaking purely for myself, most of mine ARE global threats. They actually come in two varieties - global (and up) threats, and those who work for them. If you see one of my villains doing something, you KNOW he's either working on something really bad for a lot of people, or he's working for someone who's working on something bad. I don't buy into the psychopaths and mercenaries for the same reason - they bore me to tears. Random murder and wanton violence may have its place, but to me it's just pointless, and mercenaries are only interesting when they come up against moral dilemmas and introverted self-discoveries.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Just look at player villains. How many homicidal psychopaths, mercenaries, criminal masterminds and such do we level up to 50? Are they a global threat? Not most of them, no. But they are powerful villains, who threaten the well-being of innocent citizens, and as such require a powerful hero to stop them.
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That's a big failing in CoV, by the way, that the game seems to have been designed expecting you to be a psycho or a mercenary. Almost everything is about "Do this for me and I will pay you." or "Do this for the evulz!" There is very little... In fact, there may be literally NOTHING for the self-made villains with plans of his own and an ACTUAL agenda beyond "Do evil, please Arachnos, gain levels." Seriously, we're all like drifters, going from job to job with no purpose in life. I want my volcano island lair!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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See in a lot of ways I'm the reverse. I see global threats as meh due to impervious heroes with the power of 10 suns blowing up an alien armada merely by shrugging their shoulders while street level stories have heroes that actually have to put something on the line to pull off a win. The stories seem more personal. Inadvertantly, some of these invincible heroes simply wind up seeming like pricks.
I agree with you on CoV in that the types of villainy are limited. However, I wonder how much of that is an oversight and how much of it is deliberate due to MMO design and the overarching story for the game.
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Alan Moore's Top Ten.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
There's also this tiering system that I think may well be unique to Paragon City. Usually in super hero stories, you have a few heroes. Sometimes you even have many, though such gatherings are rare. I am not aware, however, of any story that deals with a whole CITY of them, and we have literally hundreds of thousands of heroes. And not only that, but we have hundreds of thousands of villains, and crime occurring every time you turn your back. It's safe to say, then, that in Paragon City, you look at your own power bracket, and you trust the other heroes to handle things in their own brackets. Say you're on your way to stop a nuclear bomb and you see a man being mugged. OK, you stop to help. The reality, though, is that you'll see dozens of them on your way, and if you stopped to help every one of them, the bomb would go off. Instead, you have to trust that a hero who's actually in that level bracket will be about to help. And since the city is crawling with them, that's usually a safe bet.
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Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Favourite Mission Arc Redside that I tend to outlevel the most:
Billy Heck and the Family arc he runs.
Sure, it's not world shaking at all. But eegads its fun
T'be honest, I still think a ton of the high level Blueside stuff needs re-writing, simply because somebody had their rear-end engaged in hunt-office-hunt combo mode when they wrote most of it.
Hunts should be occasional, not every other freaking mission, mkay?!
/rant
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Personally, my RP character (ones with a 'progression' of some sort rather than keeping their same power lvl/form/ethics and just facing different types of threats) tend to do normal saving/kidnapping and what not kind of as a redemption for things they have to do. Like my main hero sometimes is required 'steal' or something against his personal honor so he'll do extra 'hero duty' to make up for it even if what he did helped save lives. My main villain isn't a guy who is trying to destroy the world or anything but he doesn't like helping people but sometimes it just happens so he'll take a kidnapping job 'just because' or rip a guy's throat out to clot out any sense of good he might have felt.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
In fact, for my flagship characters, I tend to give them street-level crime as a vacation. You know, to take a break from fighting gods and super robots, they get to walk around and pick on helpless weaklings while simultaneously doing a bit of good. It's win/win. I especially have a lot of fun with a particular female character, whom I've made intentionally pretty attractive, and will paint her getting cornered in dark alleys by bad men. The twist? She's a super-strong, invulnerable cyborg who could snap these people in half like toothpicks, so this is completely meaningless to her. Like, below the level of a minor distraction. That's the sort of response I envision street level crime eliciting in someone who just beat up the strongest villain in an entire alternate dimension and saved the strongest hero of ours: meh.
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Also, I enjoy the training aspect too, moreso than actually 'saving the world' because it's about progression whereas saving the world is just preserving the status quo. For once, I'd love the world to actually *be* destroyed and then I have to fix it...
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| Actually, one of the reasons I enjoy heroes as a concept and their execution in this game is that they AREN'T mundane in the slightest. Then again, I don't think I have a single hero with a secret identity, and I don't have more than a few with a life other than being heroes, exactly because I see the "being a hero" as being their life. It's not a part-time job led in addition to a civilian life, hidden or otherwise, it's part of who they are. |
Like an RP thread with only fighting. No character development except between fights and short quips during fights. You could inject some flashbacks in there too but that's almost forcing it.
Ahh, now I really starting to miss my first RP thread, Superhero101. It's a highschool but for superheroes! Yeah, they had math class but they also had 'Super Gym' class and got extra credit for saving people/the world after classes. It was fun while it lasted
Its actually silly to think there has to be one or the other with no middle ground.
Heroes saving the world is great. I like a lot of that stuff in comics and movies. But I don't ever get the sense of liking the hero if I never see how he/she deals with other aspects of being a hero.
When Rorschach tells the story of how he dealt with the child-killer in the Watchman movie, that was every bit as powerful as other saving the world moments in both that and other movies. It's just a different aspect of being a hero. How do you deal with vile scum who can turn out to be just everyday people you see on the street?
IMO, there aren't enough stories like that in the game. Saving the world stories are no more or less interesting than a well told story about any other superhero subject. The problem is that it's easier for someone to write about a ticking nuclear time bomb, than to write about a serial killer who covers his/her tracks perfectly. Its easier to cook something up about a time-traveling Nazi Lt than to write about a hero having to choose between saving a friend versus saving a group of people he doesn't know and who will never know him.
Batman, Daredevil and Spiderman aren't any lesser heroes because they don't usually save the whole earth from Galactus/Darkseid. And their stories are just as interesting.
Good stories and well designed missions are enjoyable no matter the scope.
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Yes, and for anyone who hasn't read it, I strongly recommend doing so. Especially for CoX players.
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Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene
Alan Moore's Top Ten.
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Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
http://legionofvalor.guildportal.com / http://fallenlegion.guildportal.com
StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here
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Here's where I stand - you can make a big story as personal, dramatic and heart-wrenching as a small one. It's a question of writing and storytelling, not so much a question of source material. Granted, many people fail to do so, and fall into the "Super Man reverses the rotation of the Earth to turn back time" pitfall. But as Super Man also shows, it's possible to have an incredibly powerful hero fighting incredibly powerful villains and STILL make it compelling.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
See in a lot of ways I'm the reverse. I see global threats as meh due to impervious heroes with the power of 10 suns blowing up an alien armada merely by shrugging their shoulders while street level stories have heroes that actually have to put something on the line to pull off a win. The stories seem more personal. Inadvertantly, some of these invincible heroes simply wind up seeming like pricks.
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For me, writing a cosmic story that's compelling is more difficult than writing a mundane one, but when you manage to pull it off, a cosmic story will always be more interesting. A cosmic story is unique and meaningful, whereas a mundane story is always one of a million like it. Why should I care about THIS specific character out of the thousands of other heroes?
I will admit, I have a penchant for the extreme and unrealistic. Whenever I get interested in a story or inspired to write one, it's inevitably something that leads up to a cosmic event or an ancient secret. That's just what I like. And I think I've done pretty well, actually. The one real story I've written and completed is at the same time about as grand and epic as it gets, and very much about personal struggle and self-discovery IN this epic setting. After all, you only ever get to see a person's true self right in the moment of truth.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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A lot of the arcs I see start off with relatively mundane things... looking for someone that's missing, looking for several someones that are missing, looking for a particular villain, or knocking skulls to find out some information. Often these types of missions turn into more damatic stories where, supposedly, the fate of the city or even the world is at risk, but it doesn't have to be that way.