Why do HEATs feel like fail?

Okay, okay, I'll run some numbers.

I do need to ask one question first, though: does Nova form alter the base ranged damage mod, and if so, to what value?

So, I'm working with Warshades, which is what I'm familiar with. Does anyone object to the following sequence for a spawn for a solo Warshade without perma Eclipse?

Gravitic Emanation
Sunless Mire
Transform to Nova
Bolt, Blast, Detonation, Bolt, Blast, Emanation, repeat
Transform to Human
Stygian Circle

Obviously perma Eclipse would make the above safer, and in some circumstances allow you to skip the opening Emanation. And then, if you get mezzed, you have the options of popping a breakfree or switching to Dwarf, whereupon you Mire as frequently as possible and chain the ST attacks otherwise. Also, the pets and their somewhat unreliable damage...

You know, this is dumb. Nobody is going to accept any numbers I post (except maybe for Dwarf Form sans pets) because there are too many variable effects that come up in actual play for Kheldians but are simply not a concern for ATs that have a more complete suite of active or passive mitigation (Defenders, Controllers, Scrappers, Tanks) or aren't expected to consider their own survival in the first place (Blasters). I can certainly analyze Warshade sprint damage in the best possible case (Nova, mired to the max, high recharge attack cycle, pets behaving amazingly well) and sustained damage in the worst case (Dwarf, one mez-stacking enemy, pets gone, enemy corpses fading fast) but I can't realistically state how often each of these cases occur.

(I can say that the best scenario has only really happened for me on full teams that would probably have done just as well without me, and the worst scenario happens all too often when soloing - which doesn't enamor me to the AT one bit, but your miles will vary.)

Analysis is still ongoing, but early results are showing that being locked in dwarf against a single target is an enormous disadvantage for a Kheld - we're talking about a literal order of magnitude drop in DPS, and that's before considering what it does to the poor guy's ability to recover post fight. Peacebringers have an edge on surviving this situation, and Warshades have an edge on damage, but both are pretty thoroughly miserable here. I would suggest that any future analysis of Kheld performance and play experience place a strong emphasis on this situation, as it's the expected survival mode for the AT, but on a build that isn't structured around it can instead be a long, painful death sentence. It sounds wacky, but when you count up the total opportunity cost, Dwarf might be worse DPS than Hibernate.

On the bright side, under optimal conditions, Novas have impressive AoE DPS. Surprising no one.

And on the third hand, while pet damage analysis is notoriously fickle, I think the worst thing to happen to Warshades in recent memory might be the change where pet attack recharge times were locked in. Particularly on high-recharge power builds.

What I'm reading here is that Dwarf form is the mode offered by the AT design to handle adverse conditions (mez in particular) and tough foes, but the winning strategy is actually to ignore Dwarf in favor of handling it as a Blaster would - breakfrees, purples, control, damage. If Dwarf form offered some combo of defense and mez resistance, so mez could be shaken off faster and not reapplied, that would open the idea of Dwarfing up temporarily and then breaking out again, but that's not how it works - Dwarfing up is often a one way street.

It seems to me that Dwarf is actually only for team tanking. This is supported by the strong PBAoE that both Dwarves have, and the massive power of a fully saturated and especially self-stacking Dwarf Mire. And indeed Dwarves are pretty tough and make decent alpha absorbers if someone else can be trusted to clean up the spawn before HP/end runs out.

I'm going to have to think a while about how Stygian Circle affects sustainability. You may laugh at those -1/x8 farmers, but for an AT with great burst AoE and a fairly tight time limit on how long they want a fight to last, that kind of large soft spawn may be ideal. I'll be doing some hands-on testing with my 44 triform WS when I get the chance.

SpittingTrashcan can you explain that damage scale you used? It doesn't look like something I have seen before.

Though the numbers compared against themselves make sense I am not quite sure I have grasped it yet

Overall though I think you are right about Dwarf being a big performance killer when looking at kill speed and DPS. As you said though the devs would have to determine how often a Warshade is able to fight in Nova and how often they are forced into Dwarf to determine exactly how it effects the overall balance. I personally don't spend much of my time in Dwarf form, but then again I don't really keep count.

One last thing strikes me though, and that although I did know this, Warshades may just benefit from +recharge more than other AT's due to the limited powers. For example my Black Dwarf uses: Mire > Smite > Strike > Smite > Repeat, counting that attack chain I expect Dwarf form would get a bit closer to scrapper level damage (I think it would go up to 6.x against 10 targets from roughly guessing your maths, and more because it lets you double stack mire, so possibly around 8), but I guess balancing around heavy investment isn't the right way.

Once I know how you got those numbers I might run the same for my build, and although I will be away all of next week you have got my interest up so I might have a more detailed look myself.

Then of course we get the question of where should a Warshade come in the grand scheme of things, and how much weight do you give for survivability/end management/damage/control etc, but that will never get sorted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Perhaps I'm mixing the koolaid without knowing the flavor but since when is having an uber DPS build the end-all-be-all? Why is DPS the deciding factor if HEATs are fail or not?

When I'm switching forms on my PB or creating havoc on my Warshade, DPS is the furthest thing from my mind...I'm just happy to play a different and versatile AT different from the other 5.