Going Rogue: My responce to the weak, afraid, and argumentative


Afterimage

 

Posted

For months, I have seen many people with complaints and fears about Going Rogue. Now, as time draws closer to its unveiling at Herocon, the discussion has become more heated.

"But I don't want to be a villain! I want to stay in Paragon! I'm not switching sides! It's unfair to the purist in me to offer content that I don't feel my characters should participate in!"

"No way I want to hang out with heroes! That totally changes who my villain is! I'm a bad guy and I like being just that! Stop hating on villains and trying to get us to turn them into heroes!"

Even though I already say it till I'm blue in the face, I'll continue to...

"Going Rogue does not make the determination if you are a hero or a villain. You do. Your actions define who you are; your concept of who your character is doesn't change unless you want it to."

What I mean is that even though, as a villain, you enter Paragon City, it doesn't change your character. All "true and pure" villains don't classify themselves as a "bad guy." They define themselves by their actions and, more often than not, consider themselves to be heroes of the world around them. Many take up the gauntlet of villainy to open the eyes of those around them that can not see the corruption in every day life. Many have a warped sence of heroism; seeing that the only way to get to their "Utopia" is by using their hand to destroy all in the way of that vision, be it good or evil.

Many comic book heroes had to walk the line of good and evil, sometimes even crossing it, because their beliefs told them to. Their morals didn't change because they believed that what they were doing was necessary. They may not have liked what they had to do, but they felt that they needed to cross the line so they could continue to their destination.

No, Going Rogue will not change your destiny, unless you want it to. The road may branch off into many different paths, but if you are determined to get to your chosen destination, regardless of what path you take, you will still get there.

Heroes vs Villains. Good vs Evil. It's all the same thing. The only difference is the interpretation of what you see.


pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:

 

Posted

Who the hell is complaining about Going Rogue? I have never seen a single complaint about the game offering "the other side" (other than "it homogenizes the game", but they complain about Powerset Proliferation with the same comment, so I don't care about that).

You must play with some weird people.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Who the hell is complaining about Going Rogue? I have never seen a single complaint about the game offering "the other side" (other than "it homogenizes the game", but they complain about Powerset Proliferation with the same comment, so I don't care about that).

You must play with some weird people.
Give it time, they will come.

I think it was TJ that used to have the quote in his sig but it went something like this:

"The game could spit out $20 bills and people would ***** that the serial numbers weren't sequential."


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Who the hell is complaining about Going Rogue?
Well, I am a bit, but only because they're charging money for it and its central feature is something I've always thought should've been in City of Villains at launch.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Who the hell is complaining about Going Rogue?
Various people right from the beginning. I've heard quite a few people start making completely evidence free claims about all the ways it will suck. "You'll only be able to switch if you make the character in Praetoria"; "Side switching won't be anything other than instanced missions in Paragon and the Rogue Isles", etc.


Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

Posted

ShaddupSHADDUP! I get a diode cluster fritzing out just thinking about what GR is going to be like...
Mostly, I just want Dual Pistols. That and all the other shinies...
Argharghargh...



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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

That post made me think of a recent arc I played. Well, not the arc itself more the Operative that gave it to me. Operative Joe Varrass(I think) in Sharkhead. He also had this theory about heroism.

What a nice guy. I didn't feel like a lackey when working with him.

Can't say I have seen those complaints. Although with a thread about illusion controllers not being accepted in a team I'm worried about people not wanting to have reformed villains or rogue heroes in their team.(either because of RP reasons or powersets)


The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games

I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?

@Lyrik

 

Posted

I look forward to a lot of things that might be there. Of course, all we know is side switching and Dual Pistols/Demon Summoning.

I hope Praetoria has cool stuff for level 50s to do, and more RWZ-type raids where you just assemble two+ groups of heroes and go beat the snot out of an army of Praetorians trying to do something Bad, like send a quantum discombobulator through the portal and melt the whole dimension into Rularuu! Rularuu!

I hope that Alternate Advancement thing is in. Heard rumors of, like, 10 free universal enhancement slots or whatever. Sounds interesting, even though it might not actually do much (ED would start kicking you in the teeth and make those like TrainingO-quality, right?)

Market Merge? Yes please, redside has less players and less of everything. Least MA was having recipe rolls generated quick :/ SFs are worth, like, zilch merit-wise. And they even hid one of them in the stupid Supergroup Base computer...it's like, uhhhh, this must've been Statesman's idea. Put Silver Mantis out in Nerva or Sharkhead please. Sideswitching will be nice. Redside will probably turn into a ghost town, though. Seems like Brutes and Corrs would overrun scrapper/tanks and defenders blueside. Defender's inherent is so lame. Maybe the competition having Scourge will make them rethink Vigilance.


 

Posted

Quote:
"You'll only be able to switch if you make the character in Praetoria"
I heard this one last night on my server's main badge channel. I quickly and unceremoniously slammed the theory into the dirt.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

I'm not gonna complain about something we know next to nothing about yet.

I have high hopes for Going Rogue, but also a lot of reservation. The first paid expansion had the scope of a stand-alone game, and while I'm pretty sure it was already confirmed that CoX is necessary to play GR, I hope for something that rivals CoV in size.

And yet, GR's touted feature is side-switching. CoH is your life as a hero, CoV is your life a villain, GR is... not said to be your life as some neutral-ish person. It's about your heroes and villains becoming the respective other.

But then again, the devs already spewed out major changes in free Issues. Say what you want about the AE, but a tool to design your own missions in an MMO IS a fairly revolutionary idea, and despite the time-and-money investment it took to make Power Customisation, we still got that for free, too. So if such the devs already give us major new stuff for free, surely something w need to pay for will be spectacular, right?

Basically what I am saying is that GR is an unknown quantity at this point and it could be the best thing since sliced bread, or it could be an Issue-sized booster pack. Maybe Hero Con will tell us more, but considering it's a 'teaser' only, I won't count on it. In the end, we'll just have to be more patient until we get some hard facts.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
I heard this one last night on my server's main badge channel. I quickly and unceremoniously slammed the theory into the dirt.
Well done. Have a cookie.
I'm afraid you'll have to find one without doom on it, though


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxilicious View Post
Basically what I am saying is that GR is an unknown quantity at this point and it could be the best thing since sliced bread, or it could be an Issue-sized booster pack. Maybe Hero Con will tell us more, but considering it's a 'teaser' only, I won't count on it. In the end, we'll just have to be more patient until we get some hard facts.
But wanton speculation based on next to no data is so much more fun!




Character index

 

Posted

I heard in GR, we'll be able to make ponies but you'll have to have a 84 month vet badge, have 3 children, a doctorate in geology and a collection of the original G.I Joe action figures.

>_>


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrik View Post
I'm worried about people not wanting to have reformed villains or rogue heroes in their team.(either because of RP reasons or powersets)
So... how are those mixed ITF's ran then?
Though I admit sometimes those are built out of who and what's there, I think those who have been in such ITF's won't mind teaming reformed superbeings.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Well done. Have a cookie.
I'm afraid you'll have to find one without doom on it, though
ALL the cookies have doom on them now?

Wow. That really sucks.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by __Eh__ View Post
So... how are those mixed ITF's ran then?
Though I admit sometimes those are built out of who and what's there, I think those who have been in such ITF's won't mind teaming reformed superbeings.
There is a difference between a hero and villain working together for a common goal and working together with what basically are traitors.

I'm afraid that my MM won't be allowed to team because he has bots and forcefields and would be a reformed villain. I don't know where the "fear" is coming from...I just can see it happening with some people's strict rule to teaming.


The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games

I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?

@Lyrik

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrik View Post
There is a difference between a hero and villain working together for a common goal and working together with what basically are traitors.

I'm afraid that my MM won't be allowed to team because he has bots and forcefields and would be a reformed villain. I don't know where the "fear" is coming from...I just can see it happening with some people's strict rule to teaming.
If such a thing does occur, and I feel it will happen but be very rare, simply get that person's global name and add a note, "Moron. Gignored."


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrik View Post
There is a difference between a hero and villain working together for a common goal and working together with what basically are traitors.

I'm afraid that my MM won't be allowed to team because he has bots and forcefields and would be a reformed villain. I don't know where the "fear" is coming from...I just can see it happening with some people's strict rule to teaming.
On one hand, okay, given the way people sometimes tend to roleplay somewhat, they might have reservations, but the arguments about being a traitor are really non-issues in my (possibly oversimplified) vision. IF a villain has gone through changes that eventually have the effect that it becomes apparent he is not a bad guy (going by the MM principle), who's to say he is a traitor? I'd say he is reformed. Not a bad guy, but a good guy who's seen the error of his ways.

Same thing the other way, but obviously that would mean rejoycing by villains that yet another goody is turned to the dark side. Still the same principle applies though.

You ran the tunnel, somewhere along the way it had a fork, but whichever end you crawl out of, it's the one that was meant for you.

I honestly fail to see why people would, even from a roleplay stance, not allow reformed heroes or villains on their teams. I CAN see those reasons when applied to ITF's though, since even a common goal means you'd essentially side with the wrong ones. No trials laid out, no road travelled, just a different door leading to the zone. Yeah, that would fit better (and has happened to me as well twice over time when on my Brute with 7 heroes shouting in bc 'lf1 more for ITF', ignoring the vills around..)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrik View Post
I'm afraid that my MM won't be allowed to team because he has bots and forcefields and would be a reformed villain. I don't know where the "fear" is coming from...I just can see it happening with some people's strict rule to teaming.
So you're worrying about people roleplaying heroes who doesn't believe in the possibility of redemption and rehabilitation? Point out to them that the heroic act would be to help make sure that the reformed villain in question is truly repentant and walking the proper path - or, if distrustful, to keep a close eye on a potential spy.

Refusing to work with the person at all keeps the hero from either being able to bring someone fully to the side of good, or puts innocents at risk through a refusal to take action. Unless they're playing "Ostrich Man," in which case I guess the head-in-the-sand technique is completely in-character.


My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm View Post
Unless they're playing "Ostrich Man," in which case I guess the head-in-the-sand technique is completely in-character.
Being you... you must really be scared of him.. Big beak and all, plunging head into the ground where you go about yer bizniz..

I'll go away now


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
ALL the cookies have doom on them now?

Wow. That really sucks.
Not all of them.
But you know what people are like, when it comes to spreading the sticky brown stuff around
-hands over a pack of oreos- Best US invetion ever XD


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
Who the hell is complaining about Going Rogue?
I've already seen plenty of complaining from the Eeyore crowd. They don't know anything about it, but they're positive it will disappoint.

The more details we get, the louder the whining will become.


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