A world without evil?


AzureSkyCiel

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
That's not quite correct - they're looking to hire an animator who has experience with non-human body-types - which sounds like they're looking for animal animations for either enemies, or maybe some sort of summoned pets.
Well, that doesn't sound nearly as promising as I thought. We've been hearing for years that Jay has an aversion for antropomorphic characters, and the costume selection for such in the game clearly reflects this. I certainly hope this improves a LOT soon.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by BigFish View Post
Wouldn't a "world without evil" require the extinction of our species?
And Dolphins, don't forget them. Evil buggers.

I was always happy when that Simpsons backed up my "Dolphins are evil" stance somewhat.


 

Posted

I believe in the possibility of utopia, and that a world in balance is a world free of evil, that evil is the guy showing up to the symphony uninvited with a bullhorn and tourette's syndrome taking a seat behind the conductor. I don't believe that it's within human capacity to achieve a state of utopia unaided, however, and the specific sort of aid I anticipate (or at least hope for, on my more frequent and less optimistic days) is of a supernatural/religious nature. But that's really beyond the scope of the discussion.

The Quixotic Paladin (Broadsword/WP Scrapper), bereft of human foes to vanquish, would travel the world building schools and orphanages, secretly hoping for a new batch of monsters to fight. He really defines himself in opposition, and he'd have the hardest time of all my characters with the end of his crusade. I can't imagine him ever hanging up his sword. True to his name, there's a good chance he'd imagine some new villains up and wind up institutionalized.

Euroclydon (Storm/Elec Defender) would return to his family castle in Scotland and do silly things like try to conquer Death with Magic. But he'd be clear witted enough about the process to avoid falling into the evil apotheosis trap, and likely die an old man without having made any significant progress. This is provided that someone else manages to kill his sister, who's stolen the family secrets and used them to make all sorts of infernal pacts. If he has to do the deed himself, as he has sworn to do if the opportunity arises, he'll drink himself into oblivion within a few months thereafter.

Pandemonika (Elec/Elec Scrapper) would probably make sure she didn't outlive the era of violence. She's the sort to look for a noble last stand to throw everything she's got into. If she did survive, she'd lead a life of quiet despair almost certainly ending in suicide. She fights to avenge her dead love and honor his memory as a fellow hero, and that's really all that's keeping her going. Interestingly, this would likely be enough of a shock to her Earth prime native counterpart, Lunaticia (Pandemonika is a Praetorian refugee) to get her to accept psychological treatment in prison and turn her life around.

Otto the XXIX (WP/Axe Tanker) would get sooooo drunk you guys, you have no idea. And then he'd get in fights. And then he'd be dragged before a warcrimes tribunal, because he's the sort of guy who's only a "hero" because some frat boys filled out his hero license registration for him as a prank. They would likely try to execute him, figure out quickly that no magic or technology exists on earth that can actually do the job, and eject him into some dimensional abyss in exactly the same manner he got kicked out of the fantasy universe he originated in.

Violentaur (SS/WP Brute, but a future candidate for Going Rogue) would carefully select a location for maximum aesthetic value, pose his robotic body into a monument to his own bad self, and power down for good. He just wasn't designed to have much function in peacetime, and doesn't believe he could adapt or alter his programming without ceasing to be himself. He would also assume that there could be a need for him later, and not want to deny future generations the option of powering him back up for a new era of mechanical *** kicking.

Sturmlanzer (Elec/Elec Blaster) is the one happy ending in this mess. Like many of my characters, he is an Mu-blooded sorcerer. Unlike most of them, he stumbled across the martial applications of his abilites as an accident, rather than a primary subject of inquiry. He developed his lightning magic abilities in an attempt to provide an alternative power source, but threw his hat into the ring when he discovered his theories were being stolen (or, as Doc Aeon claims, independently rediscovered) and used as part of the Cap Au Diable PTS system. Cleanly transforming magical energy into electrical power is a good thing, but siphoning that energy from an imprisoned sentient being against its will isn't (even if said being is a hostile demon). Post-villains, he'd return to his research to reduce global dependency on fossil fuels, hopefully without introducing a whole new host of magic-related environmental problems in the process.



The trend I'm starting to notice is that few of my heroes, as people willing to resort to proactive applications of violence (hunting the badguys down and beating them up, rather than just defending themselves and others), would have much of a place in a post-villain world. They all seem to wind up becoming targets for removal, if they don't take care of it themselves. This is a big part of why I don't believe in Utopia without divine intervention. The people who will work the hardest to create a perfect world can so easily become the sort of people who won't belong there when it's ready.


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Posted

This thread reminds me of a quote from the Movie Excalibur. King Arthur when he believes all of his knights have brought peace and harmony to his kingdom asks Merlin where then does evil still exist?

Merlin's response : "Always where you least expect it"

I think aside from the natural disasters and such to rescue folks from, we would see in time a growing new evil rear its ugly head. Most likely from our own ranks as Merlin suggested and was in fact proven right.



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Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene View Post
I'm going to just say it: Why give a damn whether furries can make anthro characters? What does it matter? Who does it hurt?
Because some people would like to make those characters? Without instantly being labled 'furry' (which I know I find offensive, actually)
Not every single character concept that happens to use cat ears/tails/animal parts is instantly something strange. I get rather sick of people assuming as such.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Diamond_ View Post
This thread reminds me of a quote from the Movie Excalibur. King Arthur when he believes all of his knights have brought peace and harmony to his kingdom asks Merlin where then does evil still exist?

Merlin's response : "Always where you least expect it"

I think aside from the natural disasters and such to rescue folks from, we would see in time a growing new evil rear its ugly head. Most likely from our own ranks as Merlin suggested and was in fact proven right.

^ This

Read Marvel: Civil War. Heroes are just as bone-headed as villains at times. Just look at the forums for a RL example. It wouldn't be long before someone was 'the bad guy' again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene View Post
Yeah, just keep saying that while popping up with highly specific examples.
I get a highlights digest sent to me


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Well, that doesn't sound nearly as promising as I thought. We've been hearing for years that Jay has an aversion for antropomorphic characters, and the costume selection for such in the game clearly reflects this. I certainly hope this improves a LOT soon.
It's possible - there's all kinds of stuff they could use in a booster pack for mutants, or werewolves, for example.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Paragon would become like Stargate command and start portal jumping to do battle with evil.

Or it was just Scirocco's plan went through alright and now everybody is a brainwashed zombie that mimics the actions of "good" without having any real choice in the matter anymore because he used the power of the hammer of the gods to wipe out evil.


 

Posted

My answer is simple: Going Rogue.




If it has
eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.

 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Because some people would like to make those characters? Without instantly being labled 'furry' (which I know I find offensive, actually)
Not every single character concept that happens to use cat ears/tails/animal parts is instantly something strange. I get rather sick of people assuming as such.
I actually think Kali was saying the same thing as you, within context of her quote that the ban on nested quotes prevented from staying in yours. It seems more a response to the effect of "What do you care if other people make costumes they like while you might dislike?" And I agree with that. I also agree with your assessment of the hate towards so-accused "furries." The weird image of in-costume conventions is a fairly small part and a fairly rare occurrence, yet that is what everyone always thinks of when you mention anthropomorphic characters. Hell, the thing could extend to something as simple as liking the Swat Kats and the Rescue Rangers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisenzahn View Post
I believe in the possibility of utopia, and that a world in balance is a world free of evil, that evil is the guy showing up to the symphony uninvited with a bullhorn and tourette's syndrome taking a seat behind the conductor. I don't believe that it's within human capacity to achieve a state of utopia unaided, however, and the specific sort of aid I anticipate (or at least hope for, on my more frequent and less optimistic days) is of a supernatural/religious nature. But that's really beyond the scope of the discussion.

The trend I'm starting to notice is that few of my heroes, as people willing to resort to proactive applications of violence (hunting the badguys down and beating them up, rather than just defending themselves and others), would have much of a place in a post-villain world. They all seem to wind up becoming targets for removal, if they don't take care of it themselves. This is a big part of why I don't believe in Utopia without divine intervention. The people who will work the hardest to create a perfect world can so easily become the sort of people who won't belong there when it's ready.
I actually played with this notion to a large extent with one of my VILLAINS, who is built on the notion of a true believer in utopia, and a believer that it must be achieved at ANY cost. It gets interesting when you start driving the argument that people NOT living in this utopia are already damned, and so anything bad that happens to them doesn't matter, because if they aren't "saved," then they're already dead anyway. A world without violence and pain is a good idea... Until you start smiting everyone for having impure intentions and evil thoughts, even if their actions are ultimately good. Hence what makes a good villain

I'm not quite certain I can agree with your notion of why a utopia cannot exist, though. It assumes that those who would work the hardest to create a utopia are the fighters and confrontationalists, which in turn assumes a utopia can only be achieved by force. At least in terms of pure fiction, a utopia can just as easily be achieved by conviction, not by smiting the bad guys, but by convincing them that they would be happier if they were good guys, instead. Of course, there are plenty of reasons why THAT vision of utopia won't work, as well, chiefly stemming from the fact that this requires people, ALL people, to be good, kind and altruistic, something which isn't within the power of even the saints among us. And not everyone is a saint. In a world without the threat of violence, and therefore without means to enforce rules, there's nothing stopping a person who isn't quite good, kind and altruistic enough from bringing about absolute chaos down on the society. That very concept is beautifully rendered in the Demolition Man, though that society was more brainwashed than elevated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Because some people would like to make those characters? Without instantly being labled 'furry' (which I know I find offensive, actually)
Not every single character concept that happens to use cat ears/tails/animal parts is instantly something strange. I get rather sick of people assuming as such.
You know it's not furries who make these assumptions, right? You can't really hold them responsible for other people being jerks like this.

It shouldn't matter if furries make their anthro characters or you make your anthro characters. It doesn't hurt anyone at all.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I get a highlights digest sent to me
Of course you do.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by EU_Damz View Post
Would you go around street sweeping until all evil is finally vanquished?
It is technically possible for the heroes of Paragon to band together and literally rid the streets of bad guys. If enough Players gathered in Atlas so that there was one for every street spawn point, everyone picked a spawn, and at a given signal (I'd like to imagine some mighty icon of justice beamed onto the sky, or the Atlas globe, or the blimp perhaps, but it'd probably just be a 'go go go' in broadcast'), defeated the spawn they'd picked, for a short time, the streets of Atlas Park would be totally clear of mobs, until the respawn happened (incidentally, I'm pretty sure I've never seen a respawn happening - is there some code that prevents it happening if a player is near?).

If, of course, the zone maximum for players exceeds the number of spawn points in the zone. If Atlas II opens up automatically before every spawn point is covered, then the bad guys win - and justice is once again foiled by the dire threat of...lag!

Eco.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

 

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Originally Posted by Vincent Morse View Post

And even then, completely eradicating all that is evil would require massive genocide/reprogramming, which is evil in itself. It's a paradox.
All crime is perpetrated by the living. There is no crime on the moon, for example, when there are no entities present capable of thought or action



"The crime isss Life...The sssentence isss DEATH!!!"



Eco.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Morse View Post
Evil is really a matter of perspective. Which is why it weird me out so much that Arachnos refers to themselves as "Villains" and their enemies as "Heroes".
And this post reminded me of 'Are we the baddies?'

Eco.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

 

Posted

Evil would never fall. if i see villains alike die off. ill hide to plan my revenge.

if Lord Recluse fell. id be the one heroes would fear.

and if i did die. id come back still for revenge. for you see...i always plan ahead.

you should ask your self...what if no heroes were alive..what if they were all dead...what would the world be like then . mauahahahaha


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by SerialBeggar View Post
Hey, look! There's a big Rikti bomb who's impact detonator didn't work! Let's go kick it until it disarms.

ever heard of chuck norris


 

Posted

The society depicted in Iaian M Banks Culture novels is prety much Utopia for the vast majority of its citizens. I think it is possible because of two things - infinite resources, and a level of technological advancement that means that nobody has to do anything (work, for example) that they don't want to do.

There's a great little bit in one of the novels where a person from outside the Culture asks a citizen what would happen if a Culture citizen murdered someone. The response is "They'd probably get droned". The questioner asks them "Droned? What's that?", presumably expecting some bloody punishment. The answer they get is "A Drone follows you around for the rest of your life to make sure you don't do it again" (Drones being AIs in robot bodies with all sorts of force fields and stuff, basically a guarantee of no further malfeasance on the part of the perp). It's quite funny.

Eco.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mechano View Post
Arachnos is a splinter group of the Council
The only connection between Arachnos and the Council is that they both began in Italy. Arachnos was founded by The Weaver, who never had anything to do with the Council. The Council was formed by Paolo Tirelli (The Center), who absorbed the 5th Column (then led by Ridolfo Uzzano+Dirge of Entropy=Requiem).

Ridolfo worked for Mussolini before becoming Requiem, and Arachnos (under leadership of The Weaver) helped bring Mussolini to power, so it's hard to see how Arachnos could be a splinter group of the Council. As far as I know, the Council didn't exist (at least not in any significant status) until after Requiem had leadership in the 5th Column; Ridolfo didn't merge with Dirge to form Requiem until after he worked for Mussolini; Arachnos helped Mussolini get to power.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

*Yawn*

You all are a bunch of peasants. Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb.


 

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Originally Posted by Count_Logan View Post
*Yawn*

You all are a bunch of peasants. Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

Why ebil may not triumph.


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Posted

The fact that you use Batman as your example make me cackle. The man with no powers who won't even pack a gun to fight mobsters and villains who can maim and kill in their sleep...Ah me.

Heroes are so very...very...brilliant from your point of view I assume. The only reason that most Super-Heroes are not mouldering in their graves is that writers constantly invoke that blasted Literary convention, Deus Ex Machina so that "Good" can prevail and the commericially driven media can continue, despite having their protagonists in a hole that they cannot believably escape from without destroying the minute fractal of suspension of disbelief they had to begin with.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene View Post
Of course you do.
Certain people at certain times send certain links to certain threads to me for me to study


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork