Incompetent players are everywhere. I see them in every archetype.
Sure I may be a little self-serving, but when I play my lowbie empath on virtue, I say things like how were the clear minds and did anyone not get their share of fortitude. Because, I know there IS a lot more than heal.
Funny thing was, too, one of the recent teammates said, did you notice the foes just seemed to melt? I thought, yep, it's called HOWL.
I also have a recently adapted policy of thanking the forcefielders, ice shields, sonic ringers and thermal shielders profusely. They make a lot of difference.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
This also answers a post I had about emp. def.'s that they are there NOT just to heal but to buff their team and when ever possible, help with damage. Not that I am sticking up for the player, but the only thing I can think of that she wasn't experienced. Maybe a past AE pl'er that stuck around but didn't know how to play their toon, but that is cleary just my opinion.
Good luck next time on getting a good emp. def. It is hard to find a player who knows how to play an emp. def.
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Regardless of how she got it done, she defended the team. Sure, if she continued to be a healbot in later levels it would bad, but in the teens, an empath's primary form of mitigation is healing. Fortitude isn't slotted well enough at that point to be that great or to be distributed to the rest of the team. And low level mezzes aren't nearly as bad the chain mezzes you face in upper levels.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
For the entire Task Force - all nearly 4 hours of it - she (gender based on toon) used only 3 powers - Healing Aura and Heal Other, with the occasional Resurrect when someone faceplanted.
Now, at this, she was at least competent. Never had a single team wipe - came close a time or too, but not a single team wipe - although that may have been more due to having a VERY good Tank. Most the time, we did get through the battles with full health. |
I'd be wary of teaming with said player in the future unless she mixed it up a lot more and became more buff conscious, but I'd just leave a note on the player and move on.
It was a posi be happy she had heals lol. Maybe she didnt know some of the other stuff. Maybe just maybe since ive seen this before people are Aholes and they make fun of her build or dont share ideas with her but tell her what she should be doing which doesnt help. Sometimes all a new player or a player that is having problems needs is just someone to offer friendship and a helping hand when they need it. Works very very well.
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Everytime that I see a player on one of my teams get the little orange rings (well, they could be any color now) I always say something like "YES!! A sonic!!" Because I so rarely see the 'set used, and it really does help quite a bit. Especially when I played my Grav/FF... it made us all practically untouchable between the Def and Res.
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Originally Posted by Psylenz
Sure I may be a little self-serving, but when I play my lowbie empath on virtue, I say things like how were the clear minds and did anyone not get their share of fortitude. Because, I know there IS a lot more than heal.
Funny thing was, too, one of the recent teammates said, did you notice the foes just seemed to melt? I thought, yep, it's called HOWL. I also have a recently adapted policy of thanking the forcefielders, ice shields, sonic ringers and thermal shielders profusely. They make a lot of difference. |
maybe your teammates did know that she was a noob and thanked her for what she did.
And if she prevented your team from wipes then she did a great job 
be happy ^^
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I did a pick-up Positron TF with my TA/Dark. Full team. Three of the players had never done it before (i was one of those three), three others were new to the game, and we had zero healing capability (other than inspirations). No-one even had a self-heal.|
Originally Posted by CosmicThunderer
It was a posi be happy she had heals lol.
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Completed it in about three hours, zero deaths until the second to last mission (people were getting tired and not paying attention. including me).
You'll forgive me if I question your assertion that anyone should be pleased to have dead weight on a TF simply because that dead weight has a heal.
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You encounter a bad lowbie player and conclude they represent "the state of Defenders." I'm sure there's nothing in that logic that wouldn't fall apart in a closer look.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Blegh... needed to get that off my chest. Sorry for the rant all. Just... upset that THIS is the state of Defenders, and it seems to be good for most people.
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That's why H341z0rz suck.
Perhaps it was someone's second account.
Incompetent (or perhaps just new) players are indeed everywhere, but defenders and other more complex archetypes tend to make them more obvious. 'target enemy, mash buttons' isn't exactly hard, in the case of blasters and such. Picking between any of the multitude of things some defenders can be doing at any one time is a little harder.
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?
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What makes using heals less impressive than using Glue Arrow? When I run on a Posi TF with an Empathy defender, I am glad when they have heals. I'd prefer it if they also blasted and buffed, but that doesn't make healing non-useful.
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Originally Posted by Luminara
I did a pick-up Positron TF with my TA/Dark. Full team. Three of the players had never done it before (i was one of those three), three others were new to the game, and we had zero healing capability (other than inspirations). No-one even had a self-heal.
Completed it in about three hours, zero deaths until the second to last mission (people were getting tired and not paying attention. including me). You'll forgive me if I question your assertion that anyone should be pleased to have dead weight on a TF simply because that dead weight has a heal. |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Ah... to clarify two issues...|
Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet
You encounter a bad lowbie player and conclude they represent "the state of Defenders." I'm sure there's nothing in that logic that wouldn't fall apart in a closer look.
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First, I wasn't so much upset that she was a bad Defender - maybe a decent H341z0r, but a bad Defender. It's that she was a bad Defender... and given a round of "Great Heals!" and "Awsome Job [Character Name withheld]" at the end of the mission.
A bad player is a bad player. They either learn to get better, or they leave the game. A bad player that gets treated like a great one is one that will not improve or leave. And THAT is a problem.
And the second issue?
She wasn't a lowbie. She Exempted down from 47 for this TF. She had every power up to level 20 at her disposal, and they should have all been slotted well.
I can only hope that she was at that level as a result of AE farms. Because otherwise, she's been spamming three powers, and leeching off others, her entire career...
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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Did they change Posi in I16? Doesn't it cap at 15?
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
She Exempted down from 47 for this TF. She had every power up to level 20 at her disposal, and they should have all been slotted well.
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"I have a cunning plan..."
Heroes-Justice: Neutronium Man (50 Grav/FF), Silver Spider (50 MA/SR),Masked Arrow (50 Arch/Dev)
Villains: Sundragon (50 FC/FA): Justice, Mech Lord V (50 Bots/FF): Protector, Erl King (50 SS/Inv): Justice
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No they didn't change the TF. But the way exemping works now, when you're at level 15 you still have the powers you picked through level 20.
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Originally Posted by Sir_Foxbat
Did they change Posi in I16? Doesn't it cap at 15?
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My name is Random, and I'm an alt-aholic.
Main / Badger: Flamesprite - Fire/Fire Blaster - Triumph
Global: @Dynamite Monkey
Way too many alts on Triumph, Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted.
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The poster to whom I addressed my comment said, "It was a posi be happy she had heals". I described my experience and pointed out that it is not only possible, but easy to succeed at this TF without healing powers, and that no-one should be "happy" to have to carry someone who doesn't contribute anything at all to the team.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
What makes using heals less impressive than using Glue Arrow? When I run on a Posi TF with an Empathy defender, I am glad when they have heals. I'd prefer it if they also blasted and buffed, but that doesn't make healing non-useful.
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On the Posi run I joined, everyone was contributing with all of their powers. It wasn't me "saving the day", it was the team working together, and until we got close to the end and started slipping up, no-one needed to be healed because no-one was getting hit often enough or hard enough to be at risk of defeat.
I do not object to being healed, or having someone who is capable of healing on a team. I do object to the implication that dead weight players are necessary or worthwhile in any situation, on any team, and in my experience, someone who does nothing but heal, to the degree of ignoring his/her other buffs/debuffs/controls/attacks, in a situation where heals are not necessary, is dead weight. The Posi TF is not that tough, and this game is not that restrictive in how it can be played.
Does that sufficiently clarify my statement?
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Aye, but I still think you are missing what the poster you were replying to was actually stating and I failed to make you reconsider it properly. I admit I could be misreading it myself, but I like my bias better than yours. |
Originally Posted by Luminara
The poster to whom I addressed my comment said, "It was a posi be happy she had heals". I described my experience and pointed out that it is not only possible, but easy to succeed at this TF without healing powers, and that no-one should be "happy" to have to carry someone who doesn't contribute anything at all to the team.
... Does that sufficiently clarify my statement? |
When I read CosmicThunderer's post I do not see, "Be glad they had heals on the Posi because they are needed". I see, "Be glad they at least had some of their primary powers, because I am getting used to Emp blasters."
I would have to say that I find the Posi to be much more fun with healing, since at that level it is hard to get mitigation to the point where damage does not get through, especially vs. the Vahz. I can slow down, as I had to recently when we ran it with a tanker, 2 scrappers, and 2 blasters. As the tanker, that was kind of fun, taunting and running around in circles just trying to minimize the damage getting through, managing the aggro by letting the scrappers take some and then pulling it off them as necessary.
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Originally Posted by Luminara
I do object to the implication that dead weight players are necessary or worthwhile in any situation, on any team, and in my experience, someone who does nothing but heal, to the degree of ignoring his/her other buffs/debuffs/controls/attacks, in a situation where heals are not necessary, is dead weight. The Posi TF is not that tough, and this game is not that restrictive in how it can be played.
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The only time heal spam bothers me is when we are not fighting, because then the noise gets to me.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
I hate the Vahz because they don't knock back. Stupid zombies and their resistence to.... well, EVERY status effect.
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What size was the team. Only one defender to keep an 8-man team standing would be challenging.|
Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
Forgive me, but I must rant.
See, earlier today, I got involved in a run of a Posi TF. We had a single defender on the team, an Empathy/Archery. |
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For the entire Task Force - all nearly 4 hours of it - she (gender based on toon) used only 3 powers - Healing Aura and Heal Other, with the occasional Resurrect when someone faceplanted. Now, at this, she was at least competent. Never had a single team wipe - came close a time or too, but not a single team wipe - although that may have been more due to having a VERY good Tank. Most the time, we did get through the battles with full health. |
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But that was it. Clear Mind? Nada - although, to be honest, I don't recall anyone being successfully mezzed... still, a clear mind or two should have been cast. Fortitude? Conspicuous by its absence. Oh, and not a single arrow flew. Not once. Not even against Vahzilok zombies, who are weak to lethal. And then the final insult to Defenders everywhere... at the end of the TF, she was complimented on doing a great job. ... She did NOT do a great job. Spamming heals, even for an Empathy Defender, is cutting out a significant portion of their powers! Empathy has other buffs! She had a whole additional set of powers that never once got used - including another AoE attack that we really, really could have used on several occasions. Gah! I was ready to throw something by the time we were done. I know Defender damage isn't great, but even so, the occasional Fistful or Arrows would have helped whittled down the enemies faster... which several of us (those without Stamina) would have really appreciated! I wish I could console myself that this wasn't a common occurrence... but then I remembered that... it IS. Heck, there are worse offenders out there - ones who expect their healing aura on auto fire is sufficient. But this kind of game play... That this kind of thing is not only accepted, but rewarded!... it makes me mad and sick. Why the heck should someone get props for using only half a character? No, not even that... more like 1/3. Or less. |
First, you said there were no team wipes. That is success in my book. I honestly dont analyse anyone's performance except my own on successful teams. Perhaps you are spending too much time looking at someone else's actions.
Second, If you were coming to be consoled on these forums, we feel your pain. Most people have been on bad teams. But if you really wanted to help the "state of affairs", politely offer some advice to this defender. Perhaps they need it, and would even be greatful to you for pointing out how they can do their job better.
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| Blegh... needed to get that off my chest. Sorry for the rant all. Just... upset that THIS is the state of Defenders, and it seems to be good for most people. |
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| Now, at this, she was at least competent. Never had a single team wipe |
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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That's funny, I used to do it all the time with no heals and no problems. Then again, Force Fields IS just that awesome I suppose.
| What size was the team. Only one defender to keep an 8-man team standing would be challenging. |
Hehe
Notice PK, I said challenging. 
Not impossible, or even difficult. Just... challenging
Beside, he was complaining about an Empath
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Originally Posted by Biospark
Beside, he was complaining about an Empath |
Oh yeah, well they're mostly useless anyways.
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doh !!!
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Originally Posted by westley
oh yeah, well they're mostly useless anyways.
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BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Forgive me, but I must rant.
See, earlier today, I got involved in a run of a Posi TF. We had a single defender on the team, an Empathy/Archery.
For the entire Task Force - all nearly 4 hours of it - she (gender based on toon) used only 3 powers - Healing Aura and Heal Other, with the occasional Resurrect when someone faceplanted.
Now, at this, she was at least competent. Never had a single team wipe - came close a time or too, but not a single team wipe - although that may have been more due to having a VERY good Tank. Most the time, we did get through the battles with full health.
But that was it. Clear Mind? Nada - although, to be honest, I don't recall anyone being successfully mezzed... still, a clear mind or two should have been cast. Fortitude? Conspicuous by its absence.
Oh, and not a single arrow flew. Not once. Not even against Vahzilok zombies, who are weak to lethal.
And then the final insult to Defenders everywhere... at the end of the TF, she was complimented on doing a great job.
...
She did NOT do a great job. Spamming heals, even for an Empathy Defender, is cutting out a significant portion of their powers! Empathy has other buffs! She had a whole additional set of powers that never once got used - including another AoE attack that we really, really could have used on several occasions.
Gah! I was ready to throw something by the time we were done. I know Defender damage isn't great, but even so, the occasional Fistful or Arrows would have helped whittled down the enemies faster... which several of us (those without Stamina) would have really appreciated!
I wish I could console myself that this wasn't a common occurrence... but then I remembered that... it IS. Heck, there are worse offenders out there - ones who expect their healing aura on auto fire is sufficient. But this kind of game play...
That this kind of thing is not only accepted, but rewarded!... it makes me mad and sick.
Why the heck should someone get props for using only half a character? No, not even that... more like 1/3. Or less.
Blegh... needed to get that off my chest. Sorry for the rant all. Just... upset that THIS is the state of Defenders, and it seems to be good for most people.
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