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Well now you're just being ridiculous. Clearly we are only supposed to be prevented from playing on less than 8 man teams and have to stand around in Atlas until we get asked to dance or ask 7 others to join our team and if an odd number of players are on the game GMs should have to fill the teams out to 8.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
So we should all just be handed level 50s, completely purpled out? Because playing the game takes some amount of work.
Being casual friendly does NOT mean that extremely casual players are going to get all of the things that somebody who puts a little work into it will get. |
Stop being so silly.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
I will. Online worlds have a lot in common with real societies. I don't think people that live in the country are inherently harder working or better people. Not in the least.
Nor do I think it is right that if you pay to live in a city you end up with services better fit for the remote areas of the world. This game is an MMO, we have all subscribed to be part of a city. It is great that you can find quiet corners, but it is not to be expected. If I thought this particular comment you just made had any merit I'd just counter it by saying CoX = marketed as a casual friendly experience. Having to work != not casual friendly experience. Edit: they have added elements to cater to people that want to put in more efforts: pvp, IO's, TF's. Teaming and finding copious amounts of people in an MMO should not be one of those aspects. I'll never agree otherwise. Anyway, if you can't handle seeing a handful of people at the market, or training at the same time as you then imo MMO's are the wrong genre for you. These are hub/congregation points. The fact that the game is 95% instanced gives us all our own virtual world to play in. Asking for it to extend to the open world aspect just seems greedy to me. But agree to disagree. Take care everyone, thanks for the discussion and have fun out there. |
You're right that this game has similarities with real societies. Freedom and Virtue are this games big cities, and the other servers are the towns and villages.
We as players have the choice of living in the big cities with all their chaos and problems, or we can live in the towns and villages where the air is pure and the water clean. Where life is relaxed and slower paced.
And just like real life in this game there are more smaller communities than there are big cities.
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I may have edited that post before you responded. If not the /e boggle you are off on some strange tangent now.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
So we should all just be handed level 50s, completely purpled out? Because playing the game takes some amount of work.
Being casual friendly does NOT mean that extremely casual players are going to get all of the things that somebody who puts a little work into it will get. |
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Ya, but the problem is that everyone pays to live in the city or Massively Multiplayer environment, if you will.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
You're right that this game has similarities with real societies. Freedom and Virtue are this games big cities, and the other servers are the towns and villages.
We as players have the choice of living in the big cities with all their chaos and problems, or we can live in the towns and villages where the air is pure and the water clean. Where life is relaxed and slower paced. And just like real life in this game there are more smaller communities than there are big cities. |
When I make a toon there is no indication beyond the bubbles what server population is like, and the vast majority of the time they are all ranked the same 1 bubble.
I get that some people sign up for Massively Multiplayer game with the expectation to play alone or with a small group of the same people all the time, but that really can't be what the revenue model is based around, or run parallel to the goals of the company.
It doesn't matter if I pick virtue or pinnacle, I pay the same. I pay to live in the city. Getting upset because other people want pinnacle to be more like a city when it is sold as that and designed as that and marketed as that is just backwards to me.
It's a Massively Multiplayer game, I really think you should have to utilize the dev implemented tools to break away from that design, ie hide or one of the 25 always empty zones. You should never have to work to find people in an MMO, unless they are stalkers in pvp
. Rather than going to forums, joining non-default channels, sending tells to numerous people just to play the game as it is marketed and designed.I dunno, I guess we just have a fundamentally different view on what constitutes the "MM" in a MMO.
I don't play fallout 3 and get upset when I don't see any PC's (or heck even any npc's lol) around because that is how the game is designed and marketed to be. But I do get upset if I log in and see practically no one in my favorite MMO because it is designed to be bustling with players and marketed as such.
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Refreshed and quoted just now.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
If I thought this particular comment you just made had any merit I'd just counter it by saying CoX = marketed as a casual friendly experience. Having to work != not casual friendly experience.
Edit: they have added elements to cater to people that want to put in more efforts: pvp, IO's, TF's. Teaming and finding copious amounts of people in an MMO should not be one of those aspects. I'll never agree otherwise. |
Again, what is your definition of a "casual friendly experience" which does not require you to work? Door-sitting in a farm and watching the xp roll in without you having to lift a finger?
If what you expect is something akin to an online FPS like Team Fortress, where you're able to log on, pick a side and jump right into the action, I'm not sure that is a reasonable expectation for this sort of game.
Personally, I do not consider the effort required to find a team to be unreasonable or to qualify as "work." I'm not even on any of the team-seeking global channels that others have recommended. I have the advantage of a group of friends built up over the years, but when none of them are online or available, I'm usually able to find a team purely by using the in-game tools designed for that purpose (ie, the Team search function). As it stands, I frequently have to turn down team invites (on all my characters, not just Teh Heal0rz) because I'm busy with something else, not in a mood to team, or have to leave soon.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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I did play SWG until the NGE when they ruined everything that I loved about the game, including the entire way the game handles. *shudders*|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Such a thing would 100% kill my chance of returning, not that i ever played SWG, but conceptually.
The Auto Assault Server Merge cost folks some names, and that alone caused plenty of cancellations. Having to fork over cash ontop ? Crazy crazy crazy. |
I will not be paying them money by either subscribing for a month, or contacting them after to have my characters moved. I have a ton of stuff on my characters that has been all packed up for a long time now, I don't foresee myself ever playing it again, not least in part because I don't think they deserve any money.
�Alas, regardless of their doom, the little victims play!� - Thomas Gray
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Obviously you haven't been reading the responses you have been getting in this thread. If you did read them you would have seen that the majority of people responding have said they are not paying to play on the most populous servers.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Ya, but the problem is that everyone pays to live in the city or Massively Multiplayer environment, if you will.
|
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| When I make a toon there is no indication beyond the bubbles what server population is like, and the vast majority of the time they are all ranked the same 1 bubble. |
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| I get that some people sign up for Massively Multiplayer game with the expectation to play alone or with a small group of the same people all the time, but that really can't be what the revenue model is based around, or run parallel to the goals of the company. |
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| It doesn't matter if I pick virtue or pinnacle, I pay the same. I pay to live in the city. Getting upset because other people want pinnacle to be more like a city when it is sold as that and designed as that and marketed as that is just backwards to me. |
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It's a Massively Multiplayer game, I really think you should have to utilize the dev implemented tools to break away from that design, ie hide or one of the 25 always empty zones. You should never have to work to find people in an MMO, unless they are stalkers in pvp . Rather than going to forums, joining non-default channels, sending tells to numerous people just to play the game as it is marketed and designed.
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The $15 bucks you pay for your sub does not equal the $1,800,000 they get for our subs.
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| I dunno, I guess we just have a fundamentally different view on what constitutes the "MM" in a MMO. |
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| I don't play fallout 3 and get upset when I don't see any PC's (or heck even any npc's lol) around because that is how the game is designed and marketed to be. But I do get upset if I log in and see practically no one in my favorite MMO because it is designed to be bustling with players and marketed as such. |
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No, they are listed in order of load, so you have relatively detailed information on population.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
When I make a toon there is no indication beyond the bubbles what server population is like, and the vast majority of the time they are all ranked the same 1 bubble.
|
And if you're going to say, "A new player wouldn't know that." don't bother. A new player would likely think that 1 green bubble is better than 2 yellow ones so BOTH types of ranking would need to be explained to provide useful information.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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I'm not sure why this particular discussion is attracting so many strawman arguments, but you and Aett just did the exact same one.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Again, what is your definition of a "casual friendly experience" which does not require you to work? Door-sitting in a farm and watching the xp roll in without you having to lift a finger?
If what you expect is something akin to an online FPS like Team Fortress, where you're able to log on, pick a side and jump right into the action, I'm not sure that is a reasonable expectation for this sort of game. |
What part of "easy to find people and teams" in an MMO is leading you to equate that with "auto 50's, doorsitting, and free x"?
Your team fortress example would be a reasonable expectation for zone or pick up arena play, but isn't what is being discussed with regard to the pve game.
Lastly, there has been some resent talk about the desire of the EU servers to either get listed with ours (full access) or get amalgamated. This is just coming from the player base mind you, but I think you guys should head over and make sure they know which servers they aren't welcome on because you might see another person at the market...j/k, but kinda not.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
No, they are listed in order of load, so you have relatively detailed information on population.
And if you're going to say, "A new player wouldn't know that." don't bother. A new player would likely think that 1 green bubble is better than 2 yellow ones so BOTH types of ranking would need to be explained to provide useful information. |
Yep. I remenber when I first joined and I saw the yellow and red. I assumed that yellow meant there was a problem and red meant the problem was serious.
Green meant A ok
Yellow meant caution
Red meant danger
I always stayed on the green servers.
Expanding on the city analogy that Memphis brings up in his canned response and has come up again recently:
I'd be surprised if those of you playing on "kansas" servers expect any less amenities than those playing on "NY" servers.
When you file a petition or when server maintenance occurs you probably expect it to happen with the same priority and response time as those in the "cities".
I grew up in the country, it took 45 min to an hour for the volunteer fire department to arrive at most places. It takes about 8 mins where I live now.
Additionally, the idea of playing on a "kansas" server is fine, but only if it is completely and fully communicated to players prior to joining it, just like a pvp server would be. The expectation in an MMO is for people, if a server is intended to stray from that it needs to be communicated upfront.
I'm kidding with this next statement, but playing on a kansas server should probably cost less per month, just like it cost less to live out in the country and it should probably not be hooked into the "big city" markets anymore cause you should be paying "stranded taxes" (my term for the price hiking you see in remote places and tourist traps) on the goods you access. Quantities should be far more limited on those servers because you don't have access to the city market. If you want access to the larger market you need to travel (ie transfer) get what you want and travel back to your area.
Its been ages since I tried this, but hover your mouse over the colored dots.
There should be a tooltip for
Light load
Medium load
Heavy Load
Then when greyed out there were different messages for full and server down.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Green meant A ok
Yellow meant caution Red meant danger |
Red means Stop.
Green means Go
Yellow means go...really fast.
--Jeff Bridges, STARMAN
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
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1. So anyone that disagrees with you is using strawman arguments. |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
I'm not sure why this particular discussion is attracting so many strawman arguments, but you and Aett just did the exact same one.
What part of "easy to find people and teams" in an MMO is leading you to equate that with "auto 50's, doorsitting, and free x"? Your team fortress would be a reasonable expectation for zone or pick up arena play, but isn't what is being discussed with regard to the pve game. Lastly, there has been some resent talk about the desire of the EU servers to either get listed with ours (full access) or get amalgamated. This is just coming from the player base mind you, but I think you guys should head over and make sure they know which servers they aren't welcome on because you might see another person at the market...j/k, but kinda not. |
2. Why would the EU players need to be warned of anything. If you had been reading the suggestions we want their servers added to our list. that would bring the number of servers up to 15.
15 is more than 11. That's an increase in servers not a decrease.
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I had no idea they were listed by load, virtue is at the very bottom of my screen when I log in and I always play on freedom so I figured that it remembered my preference and listed that one first. Are they listed in descending order then for virtue to be at the bottom always? but then it remembers my preference and lists my server first?|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
No, they are listed in order of load, so you have relatively detailed information on population.
And if you're going to say, "A new player wouldn't know that." don't bother. A new player would likely think that 1 green bubble is better than 2 yellow ones so BOTH types of ranking would need to be explained to provide useful information. |
They all just say "light load" on mouse over. Maybe now that the devs are so forth comming with real ingame numbers it would be handy if the server load gave a more accurate numerical representation of the current number of players logged in.
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Actually let's expand on your idea. The people on least populated servers should pay less, The people that play on the middle populated servers should pay the same as now, and the people that play on the most populated servers should pay more than everyone else.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
I'm kidding with this next statement, but playing on a kansas server should probably cost less per month, just like it cost less to live out in the country and it should probably not be hooked into the "big city" markets anymore cause you should be paying "stranded taxes" (my term for the price hiking you see in remote places and tourist traps) on the goods you access. Quantities should be far more limited on those servers because you don't have access to the city market. If you want access to the larger market you need to travel (ie transfer) get what you want and travel back to your area.
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If you want to play on the penthouse server then you should pay the big bucks to be there, and since there is a huge population there should be a queue that you have to wait in until your number is called before you can play. Also since those servers are in such high demand your actual play time should be limited so that other big city players get a chance to play.
And since the low pop servers aren't as crowded there won't be any limit to length of time playing or a need to wait in a queue to play.
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1. People that disagree and use strawmans in their argument are using strawmans in their arguement. ie when I say that finding people in an MMO should be easy and they turn that and say I expect instant 50's and free door sitting. Understand? In fact you should look at what you just said lol.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
1. So anyone that disagrees with you is using strawman arguments.
2. Why would the EU players need to be warned of anything. If you had been reading the suggestions we want their servers added to our list. that would bring the number of servers up to 15. 15 is more than 11. That's an increase in servers not a decrease. |
I'm very happy to calmly discuss things like we have primarily been doing. Tossing out strawmans is not helping, it is either a sign of lack of respect or a weak argument. I'm not keen on either prospect.
2. Ya there is talk of adding their servers, which despite your attitude (which really you are being quite antagonistic lately, if you can't keep calm, then take a break) I even listed it see?
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| there has been some resent talk about the desire of the EU servers to either get listed with ours (full access) or get amalgamated. |
Sooo, I guess you didn't really have anything to say with that reply
That's ok, sometimes it is important to go over what has already been said to ensure we are all on the same page and helps anyone else just jumping in on the conversation.
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Sure why not. Except one small thing. The box sells it as the "most populated' tier already. So it would actually just be a monthly price break for everyone else, but not without some negatives too.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Actually let's expand on your idea. The people on least populated servers should pay less, The people that play on the middle populated servers should pay the same as now, and the people that play on the most populated servers should pay more than everyone else.
If you want to play on the penthouse server then you should pay the big bucks to be there, and since there is a huge population there should be a queue that you have to wait in until your number is called before you can play. Also since those servers are in such high demand your actual play time should be limited so that other big city players get a chance to play. And since the low pop servers aren't as crowded there won't be any limit to length of time playing or a need to wait in a queue to play. |
People already pay extra for the "penthouse", or what constitutes it in this game. MT's. Glad we are finally on the same page
. And events used to hit "penthouse" restrictive status on freedom and virtue.Just remember, if you think this analogy is silly I didn't come up with it, just look to the canned response to server mergers. I think it is fun, it has some apt qualities and at least discussing it this way people have stopped...being rude.
I agree with you Cyberdude. Populations among the leading servers appear to be down, but I have been able to find teams a bit easier with the change to the AE. However, I for one am not happy with the AE nerf & the manditory sidekick / mal; but hey, what can ya do but play.
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And maybe you should learn what sarcasm is and how to know when it's being used.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
1. People that disagree and use strawmans in their argument are using strawmans in their arguement. ie when I say that finding people in an MMO should be easy and they turn that and say I expect instant 50's and free door sitting. Understand? In fact you should look at what you just said lol.
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I'm very happy to calmly discuss things like we have primarily been doing. Tossing out strawmans is not helping, it is either a sign of lack of respect or a weak argument. I'm not keen on either prospect. 2. Ya there is talk of adding their servers, which despite your attitude (which really you are being quite antagonistic lately, if you can't keep calm, then take a break) I even listed it see? . There is also the possibility of them being absorbed. Sooo, I guess you didn't really have anything to say with that reply That's ok, sometimes it is important to go over what has already been said to ensure we are all on the same page and helps anyone else just jumping in on the conversation.
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Your the only one here that is getting upset because no one is fawning over you and agreeing that your right. You've posted several times that you were done but it keeps eating at you and you come back to get even more frustrated. But if it's your coping mechanism to imagine the people disagreeing with you are hostile and antagonistic rather than accept that your wrong, then go for it. What you think is going on on my end of the keyboard makes no difference to me. If it helps you can imagine me pushing nuns down stairs and kicking puppies.
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sure dude, I called you out; backpedal away. I won't hold it against you.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And maybe you should learn what sarcasm is and how to know when it's being used.
|
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| Your the only one here that is getting upset because no one is fawning over you and agreeing that your right. You've posted several times that you were done but it keeps eating at you and you come back to get even more frustrated. But if it's your coping mechanism to imagine the people disagreeing with you are hostile and antagonistic rather than accept that your wrong, then go for it. What you think is going on on my end of the keyboard makes no difference to me. If it helps you can imagine me pushing nuns down stairs and kicking puppies. |
I'm not upset that I don't have much support in this conversation. It would be an aberration if I did. The people that fall into the category I'm describing just end up leaving the game. In fact I talked 4 people out of it last night while playing redside on one team (it was a group trying out the game together). I urged them to try blueside before they gave up.
I was going to leave the conversation alone, but you guys (well not so much you actually now that I look over the posts) just keep posting things that are worth responding too. It's a two way street.
It's pretty obvious yo have nothing to say, so now you are trying to cast me in a derogatory light so that others might side with you. It's ok, I won't hold this against you either. It is entirely unnecessary though, most people in this remote sector of the game are of your mindset, so you are in effect "preaching to the choir". No need to rile the troops again, unless you really want to?
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That is exactly what it does. Whichever server you last played on is listed first, then they are in descending order of load, with the heaviest load at the bottom. If you don't play on Virtue or Freedom, they are always the bottom 2, although not always in the same order there. The upper ones change around a lot. If you are like me and have alts on all the servers, you never know what you will see when you log in. |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
I had no idea they were listed by load, virtue is at the very bottom of my screen when I log in and I always play on freedom so I figured that it remembered my preference and listed that one first. Are they listed in descending order then for virtue to be at the bottom always? but then it remembers my preference and lists my server first?
|
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
----------------------
Fighting The Future Trilogy
----------------------
Ok.... just to upset everyone in general.....
Accounts = number of currently active(paid for accounts in good standing).
Players = number of warm bodies logged in.
Accounts != Players
Hidden = some percentage of the player base that doesn't want a friggin thing to do with YOU. So, is unavialible for teaming.
Some numbers from PopWatch:
Victory:
Sept 30 2009 1805 hrs Central
135(characters availible to team with.)(blank search)
estimated hidden(+50% of blank search)
67.5
Total
202.5
2 x looking for missions
2 x looking for Anything
%looking or characters willing to team or flagged for teaming
1.946472019464720194647201946472
%not looking or those that don't wanna team with you
98.024691358024691358024691358025
Freedom:
Sept 30 2009 1819 hrs Central
483(characters availible to team with.)(blank search)
estimated hidden
241.5
Total(+50% of blank search)
724.5
4 x looking for missions
28 x looking for Anything
1 x looking for patrol
%looking or characters willing to team or flagged for teaming
4.83091787413961352657004830917874
%not looking or those that don't wanna team with you95.445134575569358178053830227743
Champion:
Sept 30 2009 1825 hrs Central
151(characters availible to team with.)(blank search)
estimated hidden(50% of blank search)
75.5
Total(+50% of blank search)
226.5
2 x looking for missions
4 x looking for Anything
1 x looking for a TF
%looking or characters willing to team or flagged for teaming
4.6357615894039735099337748344371
%not looking or those that don't wanna team with you.
96.997792494481236203090507726269
All of the above, using search, are returns of: (This list was truncated)
Now granted.... if you have a full global freinds list, are in an active SG and a member of all the channels the above may not effect you.
But for the rest..... maybe it does.
Anyway, using the above numbers, it looks like +95% of the players don't want to team with you.... given there flag status.
And to the person that said Victory channels will get ya a team..... I have had success only 4 times in the last 12 months, getting assistants using the Victory channels.(Badges, Badges 2009 and Forum)
(on Champion this is not an issue.... most likely because the account I use on Champ.... a known player if you will)
Engage flame throwers!
BC
[/quote] We're still helpful, but a little tired of doom posts. Sorry yours may have been seen as such.[/quote]
Leave the poor guy alone, he just asked whats happend while he was gone, i thought this is what the forums are for?
I dont really know what to say
Electric Armour and the Soft cap
Electric Armour and the 1st 20 levels
Thundra Knight
click here for You want the best TANK!? I'll let you decicde!
The Auto Assault Server Merge cost folks some names, and that alone caused plenty of cancellations. Having to fork over cash ontop ? Crazy crazy crazy.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617