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I think your confusing the OP Cyberdude with Frosticus. Cyberdude's question has been answered to his satisfaction and he hasn't returned since, as can be seen in his last post.| Leave the poor guy alone, he just asked whats happend while he was gone, i thought this is what the forums are for? |
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| Thanks for all the advice. What is this AE farming thing all about? Sorry guys been away for a while. Please bear with me. Like I said the great thing about this game is the helpfulness of the players. |
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And 90% might not even be aware of/forget to use the flag system |
Originally Posted by Big_cuban
Anyway, using the above numbers, it looks like +95% of the players don't want to team with you.... given there flag status.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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No I didn't miss the points, I clearly outlined aspects of the game that have been designed with the intention of "more work". Things like IO's, pvp, and other end game content. Finding a team does not remotely fall under that category - hyperbole or otherwise.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Dude, it was hyperbole. It wasn't a strawman argument. It was to point out that some work does need to be done, even by casual players. It was to point out that the more work you put in, the more you get out. But apparently you missed those points.
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The place where finding a team is qualified to require more work is for special content like raids, or Master TF's, maybe even normal TF's(but even that is a stretch). PUG's are just that and for all intents and purposes they should be about as easy to form as it can get.
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| You say that we're trying to cast you in a derogatory light, but then insult us a few lines up. Way to go. |
I can be a jerk and often am, but I don't feel it is necessary in this thread. I'm sorry others aren't feeling the same way though.
My comment about playing Dr. Phil is not meant as an insult, no one should be trying to psychoanalyze people based on a short forum discussion. That is just ridiculous and is was actually insulting to me that he had the audacity to do that. I'd hope most people would be bothered by such assumptive and misguided actions. Like I said though, I'm not upset. Only 2 discussions on these forums have ever upset me. The Lightning storm nerfs, and i13 pvp. This topic is nothing more than interesting to me.
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| Your point was that it shouldn't take work to find a team. It doesn't. What does take work is to find a team faster, and potentially better teams. There's nothing wrong with that, and is expected in EVERY. SINGLE. MMO. If you think that you can't find a team, on the most populous server, with just broadcast or setting the team flag, then I don't know what to tell you. I can do just that on a much less populated server. So, the very thing that you say that we should want on a more populated server is exactly what we do have on the servers we're currently on. So why would we want to change that? |
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Neat. I had no idea. I would have guessed they'd list the most populated at the top and go down. Thanks for the info.|
Originally Posted by Justice Blues
That is exactly what it does. Whichever server you last played on is listed first, then they are in descending order of load, with the heaviest load at the bottom. If you don't play on Virtue or Freedom, they are always the bottom 2, although not always in the same order there. The upper ones change around a lot. If you are like me and have alts on all the servers, you never know what you will see when you log in.
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I actually thought it was like this at one time:
__________________
____________
_________
_____
_________
_____________
__________________
Where line length = population because it always had the two biggest servers on opposite ends for me.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
I haven't insulted anyone in this thread unless they are offended by discussions that run counter to their view in general. I did admit to crossing the line when I brought up feelings of entitlement being displayed, but I retracted that statement as it was not polite or constructive to the conversation. I made sure to point out when the other side did the same thing to try and keep things civil.
I can be a jerk and often am, but I don't feel it is necessary in this thread. I'm sorry others aren't feeling the same way though. My comment about playing Dr. Phil is not meant as an insult, no one should be trying to psychoanalyze people based on a short forum discussion. That is just ridiculous and is was actually insulting to me that he had the audacity to do that. I'd hope most people would be bothered by such assumptive and misguided actions. Like I said though, I'm not upset. Only 2 discussions on these forums have ever upset me. The Lightning storm nerfs, and i13 pvp. This topic is nothing more than interesting to me. |
Wow . . . and he accuses us of backpeddling.
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If it was meant for me, then don't worry. I'm a big boy |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think your confusing the OP Cyberdude with Frosticus. Cyberdude's question has been answered to his satisfaction and he hasn't returned since, as can be seen in his last post.
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My questions (both explicit and otherwise) have almost been answered to satisfaction too even though I haven't really asked very many. I'm getting some good info, might be useful someday down the road.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
If it was meant for me, then don't worry. I'm a big boy
My questions (both explicit and otherwise) have almost been answered to satisfaction too even though I haven't really asked very many. I'm getting some good info, might be useful someday down the road. |
I was just pointing out that the OP was apparently satisfied with the info he got and has moved on. The current discussion on the table between different parties will probably end up with us agreeing to disagree. While there have been jibes from parties on both sides we have managed to keep from being nasty.
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Expand on this please. I'm curious what you mean. You wouldn't just by rallying the troops again would you? You already used that tactic at least once, am I not deserving of more?|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Wow . . . and he accuses us of backpeddling.
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Alright here is what we have:
The devs have designed a MMO, the MMO has systems in place that allow it to host up to a certain number of live people at a time. I think it is reasonably assumptive to state that they wouldn't build these systems without at least the hope of utilizing them at some point.
However, they recognize that not everyone wants to be inundated with "noise" from other players so they have created a laundry list of features to effectively make other players disappear
-multi function hide
-disabling chat channels
-travelling to remote areas of the game world
-disable effects (not sure if this does anything or what)
-and much much more
The issue is that there is practically nothing that supports the flow in the other direction. I can't make players appear where they don't exist even though I can effectively make them disappear.
The only option present is to transfer to a more populated server out of their own pocket.
I get that some people really enjoy lightly populated areas. Pick any time you like and I'll go to freedom and find you at least 4 trainers where I'm the only person at them, a WW's where no more than 2 other people are and 3 zones with no more than 5 people in each one. Do you really need more space than that? If so how much are you getting on some of the smaller servers?
I'd just like a heroic game where I log in and see lots of other heroes/villains doing their thing. That's what it was sold to me as. So far the fearmongering, rallying of the troops, deliberate hyperoble and even the reductio ad absurdum haven't been very convincing (strange right? you'd think they would be) that my position is off the mark. A thriving City Of...
Anyway, this conversation has run its course. I've gotten the information I needed. This time I will take my leave more permanently
The in-game teaming tool in this game could be a whole lot better. That is why players resort to using Channels to arrange things. There are many things which can be done to improve the teaming tools. I am not sure why anyone would be against such QOL upgrades.
Sir Zane (Lvl 50, Inv/SS/Nrg Tank);Atomic Jake (Lvl 50, Kin/Rad/Elec Defender)
Nikolai (Lvl 50, DM/EA/GW Brute);Raging Stallion (Lvl 50 MA/SR/Weap Scrapper)
Archmage Tristam (Lvl 50 Ill/Son/Psi Controller)
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-g=C800:5
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Sure. You accused me of backpedalling when I gave you a sarcastic response. So I called you out for backpedalling on your claim to Aett that you didn't insult anyone.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Expand on this please.
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Merging servers is not a QoL upgrade.
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Originally Posted by Sir_Zane
The in-game teaming tool in this game could be a whole lot better. That is why players resort to using Channels to arrange things. There are many things which can be done to improve the teaming tools. I am not sure why anyone would be against such QOL upgrades.
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What QoL upgrades have been mentioned in this thread?
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Originally Posted by Sir_Zane
The in-game teaming tool in this game could be a whole lot better. That is why players resort to using Channels to arrange things. There are many things which can be done to improve the teaming tools. I am not sure why anyone would be against such QOL upgrades.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Only one I can think of was when we mentioned it would be great if the EU servers could be added to our list of servers.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
What QoL upgrades have been mentioned in this thread?
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I'm just curious about something. Frosticus, what MMOs have you played prior to this one? Specifically, what MMOs offer near-instant team opportunities at the drop of a hat, with no effort involved for "casual players". The definition typically thrown around for that segment of the playerbase leads me to believe that they're usually the ones who have to do more work to get teams than others (since their playtimes aren't really conducive to playing fast & loose. Pre-planning tends to be the order of the day).
Also, your posts make me really miss the days when MMOs pretty much forced you to earn your way into certain areas. People congregated in certain places specifically because there were limits to who had access to those places. You had a pretty good idea that if a person was walking around in a particular zone, that meant they at least had a clue. If they were hunting in one (of four) other zones, they had to be part of a group with a particular playstyle that matched yours. I'll give you a very common reason people prefer lower population servers: Moron/idiot proportion. Fact in MMOs is, the more people on a server, the higher the number of idiots on the server will be. It's simple math. Even if only 10% of a server's population is a moron, 10% of 10,000 is far more than 10% of 5000, is it not? I don't know about anyone else but I encountered more morons in 2 days redside on Freedom (spamming broadcast with their inane chatter) than in two months redside on Infinity.
But you know, none of that matters. The fact is, people will pay their subs and prefer to play on lower population servers. Even the one game that has had issues with server populations being too high, chooses to SPLIT servers and offer free transfers OFF high pop servers rather than just loading people onto them. A happy medium is probably the best approach, business wise. You don't want to shut out the people who aren't running state of the art rigs and you don't want entire servers of tumbleweed scenes. And nobody wants to play on the Guantanamo Bay server.
As for your narrow 'MMO' definition, please. I've been playing these games for almost 15 years now. At no point did I desire a ton of people I care nothing about to be all in my face. I would seriously have loved to see you on a high pop server in a game where players have to directly compete for resources (like xp). Instancing alleviates that issue but common areas shouldn't be like a bazaar in Marrakesh.
@Remianen / @Remianen Too
Sig by RPVisions
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Catwhoorg mentioned a mouse over explanation on the servers too.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Only one I can think of was when we mentioned it would be great if the EU servers could be added to our list of servers.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Well, maybe we should be able to broadcasts even when we're in instances?|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
What QoL upgrades have been mentioned in this thread?
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I don't know how feasible that is programming-wise because I'm not fluent in your crazy insane programming-languages, but potential problems with impementing that aside, the game mostly plays in instances. A team of seven in your general level average will most likely just be in an instance, miles away from broadcast range, and once they're done with their mission, it'll take less than five minutes to get to the next instance, so if you're not spamming the broadcast channel like an obnoxious idiot, the team will probably never know you even existed.
Oh sure, suggesting to make your own team is valid advice, but that's no reason to make joining already existing teams easier, now is it? The truth is that 95% of this game takes place in instances, and hardly anyone street-sweeps nowadays, making the broadcast channels more or less trivial and useless. If you get broadcasts from zones your instance takes place in, it makes it easier for team leaders to recruit people on the fly, and broadcasters have a greater chance of actually reaching teams that way.
And to top it of, people who hate broadcast, anyway, can just remove or bury the broadcast channel elswhere. Those who don't want to see it, whether in zones or instances, don't have to, so I don't believe such a change would be immensely intrusive.
Of course, this won't make joining or forming teams happen instantly, but it just might make it easier and quicker, and that's what it's all about, isn't it? Aside from the aforementioned programming perspective, I don't see any huge problems with it like server-merging has without even coming close to fixing anything.
Any feedback? Think I should take it to the Suggestions forum?
Isn't the Request channel server wide or is it just zone wide? Help I know is server wide.
I am thinking people could simply use a channel like that on any server.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Only one I can think of was when we mentioned it would be great if the EU servers could be added to our list of servers.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Catwhoorg mentioned a mouse over explanation on the servers too.
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Now, who was disagreeing with them?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
...
what were we talking about again?
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Request and Broadcast are both per-zone.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Isn't the Request channel server wide or is it just zone wide? Help I know is server wide.
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I know I don't actually want /request re-purposed like that, as it's used by raid and event leaders to distinguish their updates, orders, etc. from general chatter. That would be impossible if it was server-wide.
I think a default server-wide channel (/server?) is a pretty decent idea. The Arena channel works this way and probably the Help channel too (I never use it). I think such a channel would become a defacto replacement for most uses of broadcast.
About the only thing broadcast has going for it over a server-wide channel is that if you ask for a team in /b you're presumably going to get mostly responses from people in that zone's level range. In practice, though, I see people hawking themselves in the most bizarre places. Yesterday I saw a level 41 tanker broadcasting "LFT" in Striga isle.
The most useful other thing might be a message for new characters that tells them the command to list all the global channels, with a red button that invokes it. I think a lot more people would poke those channels if they were more visible.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Request is zone wide (but a different colour than braodcast)|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Isn't the Request channel server wide or is it just zone wide? Help I know is server wide.
I am thinking people could simply use a channel like that on any server. |
Serverwide channels
Arena
Help
(I believe Architect is as well but have never seen it used)
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Well perhaps a LFT channel should be added to the game.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I'm not against the idea, I'm just curious how they intend to force people to use it.
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I haven't really been paying full attention so dunno if it's been mentioned or not but for me one great addition would be a "Teams looking for members" list, a la WAR. It'd let you know what groups are looking for more people, what level ranges they are and who the leader is, along with an optional (ie up to the leader if it's enabled or not) Join Now option for people looking for groups.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
What QoL upgrades have been mentioned in this thread?
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I also like these two quotes from the very same post:
Your point was that it shouldn't take work to find a team. It doesn't. What does take work is to find a team faster, and potentially better teams. There's nothing wrong with that, and is expected in EVERY. SINGLE. MMO. If you think that you can't find a team, on the most populous server, with just broadcast or setting the team flag, then I don't know what to tell you. I can do just that on a much less populated server. So, the very thing that you say that we should want on a more populated server is exactly what we do have on the servers we're currently on. So why would we want to change that?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus