Next round of badge changes!
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2009-09-21 22:35 in Suggestions and Ideas
Gangbuster should be reduced from 200 to 100. Additionally, hook up the Tommy Gun costume piece unlock to it as well as Untouchable.
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hmm
[*] Increase Beleiver from 2 "sightings" to 3, to keep with the 333 defeats theme for all the other Croatoa monsters.
[*] Allow Sky Raider Porters and Rikti Headman Gunmen to count towards "Finder"; increase defeat count if necessary.
[*] add a Master of LGTF badge. Additionally, change Master Badges to require at least even con settings (so no level 49 Lord Recluse =P)
I can think of tons of NEW badges they could make, but i dunno if this is the right place for that =)
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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No thanks to either. Raising requirements = bad. I'm not sure why Porters or any Rikti would count towards a badge for killing Lost bosses.
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
[*] Increase Beleiver from 2 "sightings" to 3, to keep with the 333 defeats theme for all the other Croatoa monsters.
[*] Allow Sky Raider Porters and Rikti Headman Gunmen to count towards "Finder"; increase defeat count if necessary. |
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Minor nitpick: While they might be difficult to find in DA, (particularly to red-siders |
Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
I'll start with just one:
Badge: Banisher Current requirement: 200 Banished Pantheon spirit masks. Proposed requirement: 50 to 100 Banished Pantheon spirit masks. Reason: This badge really should have been tweaked with the round of I16 changes. It's practically impossible to get without farming or countless hours of mind-numbing sweeping. There is little reason for this one to be 200, when so many of the other 'boss' badges are 100. I feel this one, however, should possibly be reduced below 100, due to the rarity of the Banished Pantheon, and the exceptional rarity of finding the masks anywhere outside of certain high grade missions (which are frequently farmed) |
) they are pretty easy to find in the woods of Bloody Bay. If you don't want to PvP, don't worry, it's pretty empty, particularly during off-peak hours. So "exceptional rarity" might be an exxageration.Nitpick aside, I agree that it should be reduced to 100, to match other Boss Badges of 100.
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I think they meant Tracer
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Originally Posted by IanTheM1
No thanks to either. Raising requirements = bad. I'm not sure why Porters or any Rikti would count towards a badge for killing Lost bosses.
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I suppose that does make more sense. I still disagree though, since it's the only Tsoo badge available.
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Originally Posted by Heart Attack
I think they meant Tracer
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Never surrender! Never give up!
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Warden should be lowered to 100 or 200 Prisoners. 500 is a bit ridiculous. Sure, they're easy to find, but running around Brickstown killing them gets very boring.
Spider Smasher should count more Arachnos entities. Right now it ony counts Wolf Spiders which are only found in Fauntline and radio missions on the Blueside (at least in my experience). I think it should count Crab Spiders and Bane Spiders as well.
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1 place to relaibly find them redside, which is a PvP zone.|
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Minor nitpick: While they might be difficult to find in DA, (particularly to red-siders
) they are pretty easy to find in the woods of Bloody Bay. If you don't want to PvP, don't worry, it's pretty empty, particularly during off-peak hours. So "exceptional rarity" might be an exxageration.Nitpick aside, I agree that it should be reduced to 100, to match other Boss Badges of 100. |
1 place to relaibly find them blue side, which is a PvP zone.
2 places to unreliably find them blue side.
I find this exceptionally rare.
So, I could post the suggestion I edited in to the main post in here.. but, why bother, because by the time you read this post you will probably have gone down the list up there..
In other words, this is just a shameless bump for new content >.>
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Don't they spawn in Potter's Field redside, too?
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
1 place to relaibly find them redside, which is a PvP zone.
1 place to relaibly find them blue side, which is a PvP zone. 2 places to unreliably find them blue side. I find this exceptionally rare. |
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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Believer has been 2 sightings since Croatoa launched.|
Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
EmperorSteele:[*] Increase Beleiver from 2 "sightings" to 3, to keep with the 333 defeats theme for all the other Croatoa monsters. (I think it's actually only 1 'sighting' currently)[*] Allow Sky Raider Porters and Rikti Headman Gunmen to count towards "tracer"; increase defeat count if necessary.[*] add a Master of LGTF badge
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As for Tracer, only if Tsoo get another badge, and you also have to have Gunslingers on that list (they port, too). Like Tattooed for X Ink Men (Probably 200 due to being easy to find minions).
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
1 place to relaibly find them redside, which is a PvP zone.
1 place to relaibly find them blue side, which is a PvP zone. 2 places to unreliably find them blue side. I find this exceptionally rare. |
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
Don't they spawn in Potter's Field redside, too?
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Badges changes aren't about making every badge easy. They're about making the badges that are unduly hard better.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Actually I think these badges are perfect as they are,
Banisher is easy, head to Dark Astoria, should take you no longer than an hour or two.
Bug Fixer I believe is already global (if not then I agree it should be.)
Gangbuster took me 30 minutes on a team of 3 just a week ago.
Warden is easy done in 20 minutes, the mobs are decent and can be taken out fast.
Spider Smasher, well yeah I agree, but it's still easy to get.
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then explain why I have actually only ever even SEEN her once (.. well maybe twice, seem to remember it a long time ago on some random char), and my scrapper got the badge the first time she ever went to Croatoa?|
Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
Believer has been 2 sightings since Croatoa launched.
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(Oh, and the Tracer one. Not my idea, I actually don't like that one >.>)
Wonka:
I can guarantee you're a speed killer build, which gives you no room to comment on the ease of kill badges >.>.
Banisher took me over an hour on an 8 man team farming a mission. (And the posed change puts it in line with all other 'boss' badges.)
Gangbuster/Warden.. you're posing killing 200 and 500 in a very small amount of time. Fine and dandy if you're a spines/fire scrapper, or any other massive AoE destruction build. That time becomes mindnumbingly long and BORING if you're a single target damage build, and heaven help you if you're moderate damage/support.
And last I checked, Bug Fixer was not global.
The goal on badge changes was not to make them easier. Nor were they about making badges that were "unduly hard, better". No, the exact reasons specified for most of the changes was to help eliminate aberrant player behavior (farming, specifically AFK farming in a lot of instances).
IMHO all badges should be attainable, or at least close to attainable, without farming. The numbers required should be directly proportional to the amount of time a player "should" spend in the level range for said group, and how frequent said group comes up in the game.
Defeat 200 of a boss type that you seldom SEE. Okay yes you can go to certain places to farm them, but.. seriously, if you don't go out of your way to find the masks, and play the game through standard content, how many BP masks will you run in to over the course of your career?
even when I select missions that pit me against the BP, I seldom see the spirit masks, and if I do, it's like .. 2 maybe 3 a mission (even on a large spawn size), and BP is at least very rare in radio/paper missions.
Freak Tanks? I could see being 200 (or more, they're that damn common), but instead it's only 100
BP masks? Nowhere NEAR as common as freak tanks, but twice as many must be defeated for it. What sense does that make?
Believer was actually 10 sightings at the very start. (8/31/05 - 9/20/05)
As for the scrapper situation, my only thought would be a team-mate defeat of Sally out of your sight, during the time you were there.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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I badge on my Fire/Emp and my EM/WP, definitely on "speed killer", well EM can be but only single targets. |
Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
Wonka:
I can guarantee you're a speed killer build, which gives you no room to comment on the ease of kill badges >.>. |
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
Banisher took me over an hour on an 8 man team farming a mission. (And the posed change puts it in line with all other 'boss' badges.)
Defeat 200 of a boss type that you seldom SEE. Okay yes you can go to certain places to farm them, but.. seriously, if you don't go out of your way to find the masks, and play the game through standard content, how many BP masks will you run in to over the course of your career? even when I select missions that pit me against the BP, I seldom see the spirit masks, and if I do, it's like .. 2 maybe 3 a mission (even on a large spawn size), and BP is at least very rare in radio/paper missions. Freak Tanks? I could see being 200 (or more, they're that damn common), but instead it's only 100 BP masks? Nowhere NEAR as common as freak tanks, but twice as many must be defeated for it. What sense does that make? |
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
Gangbuster/Warden.. you're posing killing 200 and 500 in a very small amount of time. Fine and dandy if you're a spines/fire scrapper, or any other massive AoE destruction build. That time becomes mindnumbingly long and BORING if you're a single target damage build, and heaven help you if you're moderate damage/support.
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
The goal on badge changes was not to make them easier. Nor were they about making badges that were "unduly hard, better". No, the exact reasons specified for most of the changes was to help eliminate aberrant player behavior (farming, specifically AFK farming in a lot of instances).
IMHO all badges should be attainable, or at least close to attainable, without farming. The numbers required should be directly proportional to the amount of time a player "should" spend in the level range for said group, and how frequent said group comes up in the game. |
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Gangbuster is the villainside badge for defeating 200 Marcone Capos and Consiglieres. You seem to be thinking of Untouchable, which is only 100 of any blueside Family boss.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Wonka
Sure Fire/Emp is good AoE but can't push out the damage... the key here for me was being 50. I know there are some builds out there that can do that damage. For Gangbuster though, it was good to have single target damage, wreck the boss and move on... don't see how being single target would make it "mindnumbingly long and BORING" in that case...
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| They're all "attainable" and all easy to get, this is just people getting lazy, like wanting mission teleporters because travels have become "slow". Or wanting a portable WW or BM. How do you think the people who already had Empath feel? |
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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Fixed that for you.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Wonka
They're all "attainable" and all easy to get by farming, this is just people getting lazy, like wanting mission teleporters because travels have become "slow". Or wanting a portable WW or BM. How do you think the people who already had Empath feel?
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There's a very key difference between easy to get, and easy to get by farming.
Tank Buster? Easy to get!
Kill skuls? Easy to get by farming. (but as it's kind of a joke badge, I have no qualms about this one requiring you to go out of your way)
There is a large number of players who find farming to be mind numbing and don't see a point in it, especially when said farming is just for one stupid badge. There's a lot of players who get bored out of their mind running around and killing think that are in the mid-20s, when they're a 50.
so, it's not that we're lazy. it's that we want to have FUN in our game. We don't want to spend hours pointlessly killing things that are to weak to put up a fight, just too get a badge.
The solution COULD be "Well don't badge hunt" .. sure, except of course for the fact that some of these badges are required for accolades. Which kinda turns accolades in to grind-fest "gear".
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Bad luck. Bad timing. It happens.
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
then explain why I have actually only ever even SEEN her once (.. well maybe twice, seem to remember it a long time ago on some random char), and my scrapper got the badge the first time she ever went to Croatoa?
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Oh, pff. I've gotten that one inadvertently. A preponderance of Skulls-bearing scanner missions in the early going, a few expeditions to Perez Park, oh hey, new badge, wonder what it is? Aha!
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
Kill skuls? Easy to get by farming.
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My new defender has seen sally roughly about 5 times during a two day stint in Croatoa.
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Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
then explain why I have actually only ever even SEEN her once (.. well maybe twice, seem to remember it a long time ago on some random char), and my scrapper got the badge the first time she ever went to Croatoa?
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So your point is... you think things should come to you on a silver platter because you don't find the fun in getting them?|
Originally Posted by ToySoldierZolgar
Fixed that for you.
There's a very key difference between easy to get, and easy to get by farming. Tank Buster? Easy to get! Kill skuls? Easy to get by farming. (but as it's kind of a joke badge, I have no qualms about this one requiring you to go out of your way) There is a large number of players who find farming to be mind numbing and don't see a point in it, especially when said farming is just for one stupid badge. There's a lot of players who get bored out of their mind running around and killing think that are in the mid-20s, when they're a 50. so, it's not that we're lazy. it's that we want to have FUN in our game. We don't want to spend hours pointlessly killing things that are to weak to put up a fight, just too get a badge. The solution COULD be "Well don't badge hunt" .. sure, except of course for the fact that some of these badges are required for accolades. Which kinda turns accolades in to grind-fest "gear". |
I mean I wish I could sit and farm missions all day for money to buy purples, but I do not find that fun, still I don't complain about it much, I either get through the boredom and get me the purples or not, I don't ask the devs to increase the drop rate so that my "ultra rares" become "commons".
Work is part of games, god mode doesn't make anything fun, once you have all these badges what is there to do? You've already been there and done that so it isn't much fun on another toon...
And by the way I was talking about gangbuster, I know what untouchable is, our team got it when we were going for gangbuster, we didn't need it we were getting badges for accolades, again it took like 30 minutes of running around St. Martial and we got it, along with Spider Smasher.
Badge: Vandal
Current requirement: Destroy 25 Hydrants, 25 Mailboxes, 25 Newspaper stands, and 25 Pay Phones.
Proposed requirement: Destroy 100 Hydrants, Mailboxes, Newpaper stands, and/or Pay Phones.
Alternative: Fix progress bar/tooltip to display how many of each item you have destroyed.
Reason: Vandal is, in a word, confusing. There is no way other than taking notes or memory to track your progress. And frankly, there's usually more important matters to deal with at the time than keeping track manually. There is currently no progress bar or other information offered besides the requirements, if the game is clearly capable of tracking the numbers why can't it tell us? If it is impossible to show progress as is, perhaps it would be best to simply merge the requirements into one lump tally.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
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My point was people saying it's 2 'sightings' to get the badge are, in so far as I can tell, wrong.|
Originally Posted by Mylia
My new defender has seen sally roughly about 5 times during a two day stint in Croatoa.
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I was expressing that my scrapper got it the first time she 'saw' Nessie >.>
And Wonka:
My point is badges shouldn't force us to farm to get them. (Neither should IOs. There should be a reasonable chance to get them through "normal" game play. It means farmers get more, sure. But it also means that us non-farmers get some on occasion too, and that the market price goes down.)
Your attitude of "work is part of the game", that's fine and dandy for you, but see I have a job, I spend the better portion of my waking hours at work. I come home and usually have 2-4 hours before my internet starts being a dick (at least this time of year).
I don't want to waste that time by .. working, in a game which I pay for monthly.
I don't think the badges should come on a silver platter. I think badges should be able to come from normal gameplay (Or at least close to, it's honestly FAR more rewarding to be in the middle of a mission and get "Badge earned" and find it was The Slayer, than it is to be running around Striga at level 40, offing Vampyri.). If I wanted them to come on a silver platter, I'd ask for them to ALL be lowered to .. 10 defeats.
there's several badges I haven't mentioned even though they annoy me, because I know the requirements aren't that bad, I just managed to miss many chances to get them through the level of their content. (Which reminds me.. this game levels too fast)
(Tracer, the Sky Raiders skiff one, the Croatoa ones, etc.)
But outside of farming greys, how likely are you to run in to 200 BP spirit masks in the course of normal game play?
So, Synapse was bloody awesome to give us all the badge changes in I16, but there are a few other badges that still need work.
This thread is something that hopefully either Synapse sees, or, when the next issue begins to be discussed, can be linked to. As such please keep it to things that are just badge tweaks.
This means no requesting Overseers spawning more readily red side, or other "faction specific" badges being easier to get on the other side. I fully agree that this would be nice, but those are changes beyond Synapse's badge tweaking.
Also, changes based on the grounds of "Heroes have it this way." (or villains), really are not on solid ground, as they have stated repeatedly that hero/villain badges are, by no means intended to be "identical".
Please note the badge, current requirements, proposed requirements, and why you feel it needs to be changed.
Here's the current list w/ credit
(Please do note: I'm just listing them, even if I want to smack the person and go "you stupid!".)
Zolgar:
Badge: Banisher
Current requirement: 200 Banished Pantheon spirit masks.
Proposed requirement: 50 to 100 Banished Pantheon spirit masks.
Reason: This badge really should have been tweaked with the round of I16 changes. It's practically impossible to get without farming or countless hours of mind-numbing sweeping. There is little reason for this one to be 200, when so many of the other 'boss' badges are 100.
I feel this one, however, should possibly be reduced below 100, due to the rarity of the Banished Pantheon, and the exceptional rarity of finding the masks anywhere outside of certain high grade missions (which are frequently farmed)
Badge: Bug Fixer
Current requirement: Complete one of your MA arcs in Test Mode.
Proposed change: Should be account wide.
Reason: This badge is required for an accolade, that has a very nice QoL utility power (access to the AE editor anywhere). Problem is, the system to get this badge is.. stupid. I don't even feel you should GET a badge for testing your arc, but that aside, you should have to re-test your arc every time you want to get the badge for a new character.
I feel this badge is an Author badge, not a "player" badge.
Ian the M1:
Badge: Gangbuster.
Proposed change: Requirement reduction to 100.
Secondary proposal: Allow Gangbuster to unlock the Tommy Gun costume piece.
EmperorSteele:[*] Increase Beleiver from 2 "sightings" to 3, to keep with the 333 defeats theme for all the other Croatoa monsters. (I think it's actually only 1 'sighting' currently)[*] Allow Sky Raider Porters and Rikti Headman Gunmen to count towards "tracer"; increase defeat count if necessary.[*] add a Master of LGTF badge
Treboreleets:
Badge: Warden
Current requirement: Defeat 500 prisoners
Proposed requirement: 100 to 200 prisoners
Reason: 500 prisoners basically ends up just being a mass of farming. Very boring mass farming that, even if you're in the level range to gain XP isn't worth anything but the badge. Once again it delves in to the realm of aberrant player behavior.
Badge: Spider Smasher
Current requirement: Defeat ### 'Wolfspider' class Arachnos goons.
Proposed change: Add Crab/Bane spiders on to that list.
Reason: Blue side the Wolfspiders can be harder to find, and logically it should at least include the "Spider" classification goons.
AkuTenshiiZero:
Badge: Vandal
Current requirement: Destroy 25 Hydrants, 25 Mailboxes, 25 Newspaper stands, and 25 Pay Phones.
Proposed requirement: Destroy 100 Hydrants, Mailboxes, Newpaper stands, and/or Pay Phones.
Alternative: Fix progress bar/tooltip to display how many of each item you have destroyed.
Reason: Vandal is, in a word, confusing. There is no way other than taking notes or memory to track your progress. And frankly, there's usually more important matters to deal with at the time than keeping track manually. There is currently no progress bar or other information offered besides the requirements, if the game is clearly capable of tracking the numbers why can't it tell us? If it is impossible to show progress as is, perhaps it would be best to simply merge the requirements into one lump tally.