Seems like a good anti-farming solution.
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The devs aren't against farming; they're against using exploits.|
Originally Posted by Seek_Trouble
Seems like a good anti-farming solution.
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At no point during closed or open beta was there any mention by any dev specifically of drop rates in connection with setting multi-person spawns within missions as part of your difficulty level. And I'd like to think that our devs aren't so stupid as to completely forget to mention something important like drops not scaling with spawn size being intentional, namely because of the sort of outrage we're seeing now.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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Agreed. Certainly not in the post Statesman CoH era...
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
The devs aren't against farming; they're against using exploits.
At no point during closed or open beta was there any mention by any dev specifically of drop rates in connection with setting multi-person spawns within missions as part of your difficulty level. And I'd like to think that our devs aren't so stupid as to completely forget to mention something important like drops not scaling with spawn size being intentional, namely because of the sort of outrage we're seeing now. |
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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I'm seeing reduced rates soloing, like usual, at +0/+0, or IOW, the old Heroic. I've received 1/3 to 1/2 of my normal drops for both salvage and recipes. It isn't just an increased difficulty setting, but it may have to do with the mechanics in general.
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
QR-ish:
And again, this could also be a case of the devs looking at the wrong data. They are human, after all. People have been typically labeling this as something wrong with drop rates, whereas it could very well be an unintended side-effect of the SSK system. If the devs looked at the data concerning drop rates and saw that, overall, the numbers were in the right area, of course they'd say that drop rates are fine. Because if what some people think is happening actually is happening, those drops are being awarded ... to phantom teammates due to the game seeing a solo player fighting 6-man spawns as a team of 6 players and dispersing drops as it normally would in a team situation. |
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*hides the Voodoo doll behind his back*|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Bad luck streaks don't last all the way through beta and follow you to live.
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I agree, Bill!
I think most of the people having issues with bad drops had the system set to spawn larger teams, especially 8.
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Originally Posted by Glacier_Peak
I ran two Master 5th Column TFs and did not recieve any rare recipes.
I two Master of Imperious TFs and did not recieve any rare recipes. I RAN THE MASTER OF STATESMAN TF AND DIDNT RECIEVE ANY RECIPES!!!! I know master has nothing to do with it, but those were the types I ran. And thats a lot of AVs. This isn't working, I think it's bugged. Can any redname give a heads up on this? Is it working as intended? |
And what Synapse said, I thought, was that they, the developers, had made no [purposeful, deliberate] change to the drop rates, and was going to check the system?
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
The devs aren't against farming; they're against using exploits.
At no point during closed or open beta was there any mention by any dev specifically of drop rates in connection with setting multi-person spawns within missions as part of your difficulty level. And I'd like to think that our devs aren't so stupid as to completely forget to mention something important like drops not scaling with spawn size being intentional, namely because of the sort of outrage we're seeing now. |
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Well, I ran on a team for a level 20ish radio missions in Talos on Sunday morning. Four missions and only one recipe for all four missions. At certain points, I was using a diff of +2 and +4 members for myself.
I know my personal experiences over the last week or so are in no way conclusive, but yesterday was my first big playing day since i16 started. I've customized some powers and did a couple or respecs to pick up some new epic powers, but I've done only a little actually playing. Yesterday, I played most of the day.
What I did:
I farmed for about three-to-four hours, 8-man spawns.
I did a quick ITF.
I did three Ouroboros arcs.
I did three radio mishes and a Steel Canyon Bank mish.
I did a MoSTF.
What was dropped:
A Hecatomb dam/end
A Unbreakable Constraint hold/end
A respec recipe
4 Tempered Readiness recipes (I'm collecting them for a pair of ice blasters.)
It was, perhaps, one of the most productive days, in terms of drops, I have ever had. I can't tell you if drop rates are borked or not, but they don't seem to be so to me. On the MoSTF, I got the respec recipe, someone else got another good recipe, and there was little else. Sounds about right to me.
Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
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It looks like you had some premium drops but I'm sure you had more than just the ones you listed. What were your drops like during your farming? Last Friday I farmed for 1.5 hours and fought close to 500 badguys. In 3-4 hours fighting 8 man spawns I would suspect you killed a 1000 to 2000 badguys?
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Originally Posted by PuceNonagon
I know my personal experiences over the last week or so are in no way conclusive, but yesterday was my first big playing day since i16 started. I've customized some powers and did a couple or respecs to pick up some new epic powers, but I've done only a little actually playing. Yesterday, I played most of the day.
What I did: I farmed for about three-to-four hours, 8-man spawns. I did a quick ITF. I did three Ouroboros arcs. I did three radio mishes and a Steel Canyon Bank mish. I did a MoSTF. What was dropped: A Hecatomb dam/end A Unbreakable Constraint hold/end A respec recipe 4 Tempered Readiness recipes (I'm collecting them for a pair of ice blasters.) It was, perhaps, one of the most productive days, in terms of drops, I have ever had. I can't tell you if drop rates are borked or not, but they don't seem to be so to me. On the MoSTF, I got the respec recipe, someone else got another good recipe, and there was little else. Sounds about right to me. |
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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Oh, I had dozens of recipes that I just turned over for sale right away. I also got about 15-20 pieces of rare salvage. The number of bad guys sounds about right, but I didn't count. |
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
It looks like you had some premium drops but I'm sure you had more than just the ones you listed. What were your drops like during your farming? Last Friday I farmed for 1.5 hours and fought close to 500 badguys. In 3-4 hours fighting 8 man spawns I would suspect you killed a 1000 to 2000 badguys?
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I only mentioned the things that I thought were rare or spectacular. I could fill up on both salvage and recipes in two runs which is exactly where it was pre-i16, when I ran 8-man spawns. I don't see a difference, to be honest. It's just A LOT better without having to get fillers.
Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
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What you describe is exactly the reason it's going to be so hard for this bug - and I'm convinced there really is one - to be tracked down. It doesn't seem to replicate consistently across accounts, characters, or maps, but enough people are seeing it and enough data have been gathered to show that something is going on. Glad you're relatively unaffected.|
Originally Posted by PuceNonagon
Oh, I had dozens of recipes that I just turned over for sale right away. I also got about 15-20 pieces of rare salvage. The number of bad guys sounds about right, but I didn't count.
I only mentioned the things that I thought were rare or spectacular. I could fill up on both salvage and recipes in two runs which is exactly where it was pre-i16, when I ran 8-man spawns. I don't see a difference, to be honest. It's just A LOT better without having to get fillers. |
Out of curiosity, what map did you use for your farming runs? (If you'd rather not publicize, feel free to PM it to me.) I ask not because I wanna steal yer tech, but because I'm still trying to figure out whether there are replicably "good" maps that the devs might be able to use to set against maps like the one I've used that has been, at least for my characters on test and live, replicably bad.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Nothing special here... I used the Battle Maiden map and a did few runs on the Behemoth map just to shake it up when I got bored. I had one other toon -from a friend's account- with me getting PLed (which is definitely changed with i16).|
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
Out of curiosity, what map did you use for your farming runs? (If you'd rather not publicize, feel free to PM it to me.) I ask not because I wanna steal yer tech, but because I'm still trying to figure out whether there are replicably "good" maps that the devs might be able to use to set against maps like the one I've used that has been, at least for my characters on test and live, replicably bad.
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I'm sure there could be a problem with the drops, but I had some kind of great day yesterday. Maybe, everyone experienced reduced drops because I was getting them.
I love i16!If there is real data, I'll believe it because I know my sample size is so small, but right now I'm not seeing it.
Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
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Hmmm I wonder if the issue I've been seeing is a result of doing testing using radio missions as opposed to normal missions? I'll run some Unai Kemen missions tonight.
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Originally Posted by PuceNonagon
Nothing special here... I used the Battle Maiden map and a did few runs on the Behemoth map just to shake it up when I got bored. I had one other toon -from a friend's account- with me getting PLed (which is definitely changed with i16).
I'm sure there could be a problem with the drops, but I had some kind of great day yesterday. Maybe, everyone experienced reduced drops because I was getting them. I love i16!If there is real data, I'll believe it because I know my sample size is so small, but right now I'm not seeing it. |
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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I've used mainly "real" missions and gotten low drop rates.|
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
Hmmm I wonder if the issue I've been seeing is a result of doing testing using radio missions as opposed to normal missions? I'll run some Unai Kemen missions tonight.
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I've heard people get really bad drop rates on the BM map. I've heard people get really good drop rates on the BM map. Same for the Behemoth map. I've heard people get bad Lib TV drop rates. I've gotten good ones, and some less-good.
I know the devs are looking at this, but suspect that the lack of consistency we're seeing is going to make it really hard for them to isolate the problem, or even conclude a problem is present. For all that we've been collecting data since beta, the people most likely to read and contribute to threads on drop rates at the ones who feel like something's wrong. I don't think I'm imagining the problem, but I also can't come up with a reliable way to demonstrate what's going on.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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I know that this problem has been recognized as real. Now it's just a waiting game until they figure out what the heck has happened.Let's all be hopeful that the problem CAN be tracked down quickly.
| or even conclude a problem is present. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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Now, Now Billz. Don't hold out on us...did I miss the dev response?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I know that this problem has been recognized as real.
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Adding my 2c worth - Soloed 3 paper mishs set to 8-man (completed 1, farmed the other 2.) Killed 400+ bad guys - 1 recipie recieved (a Numi End/Heal.) along with 36 salvage and lots of insp drops.
Posted drop rate (by Positron):
Enemy Rate
Minion 2.666667%
Lieutenant/Sniper 5.333333%
Boss/Elite Boss 7.999999%
Assuming just minion drop rates, I should average 10-11 recipe drops in that time.
Doing simple binomial probability, getting just 1 recipe should happen about .02% of the time or 2 times in 10,000 runs like this. I'm hardly alone in seeing this phenomenon, so yea, something is very wrong with the recipe drops.
I seriously doubt this is intentional, or why didn't they tell us or lower the salvage drop rates too? What surprises me is they haven't even acknowledged the problem (as far as I've seen), when its so easy to verify.
Another data set for everyone. Again set to 8-man bosses enabled, doing a paper mission x2 against Council - didn't complete. This time have exact #s:
Minions: 301
Lieuts: 76
Bosses: 4
Recipies: 4 (all commons)
Recipie drops expected: 12.4
So this was a much better outing (in terms of quantity of drops) but still far below expectations.
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Dev Response
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Originally Posted by Clouded
Now, Now Billz. Don't hold out on us...did I miss the dev response?
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Quote:
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
Havent been able to log-in but someone posted in that other thread about servers. What i Havent seen from most of us commenting is what server we are on. Even though my bad luck was on test during beta I have been running on Freedom. And yes I have been a subject of that awful lag (thought it was just my new wireless but maybe not) and for some reason maybe that has something to do with it.
If I have time this week I will run a couple maps on other servers and see if I have any different results. All I know is, while I do not have hard numbers, having only a handful of drops in 4 -5 missions set for 7 people is definitely "aberrant."
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I was basing my comment on a PM conversation I had going with Synapse. Based on his posting, however, it appears that he's concluded that we're imagining the problem.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I know that this problem has been recognized as real. Now it's just a waiting game until they figure out what the heck has happened.Let's all be hopeful that the problem CAN be tracked down quickly.
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Given the fact that the only way I could possibly offer him to replicate the problem would be, "Log into my main villain and run this map," I understand where he's coming from. I believe that the problem is a combination of character and map, and could be based off anything from number of consecutive consonants in your global name to the height slider. But if we can't give him a way to make the problem happen, there's nothing for him to fix.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Data set #3:
Test conditions: All data sets generated with a lvl 50 Elec/Shield brute, even lvl enemies, bosses included, heroes spawn as elites, spawns for 8 toons, paper missions on Freedom server.
For this run I completed the missions. Both were vs. Council
Death tally:
Minions: 318
Lieuts: 80
Bosses: 4
Drops:
Salvage: 36
Recipies: 1 - Resist Dam
Enhances: 1 - WetWare Eng Neuralizer
Notes: Oddly, I'm only getting 2 bosses per mish - 1 named boss and 1 extra that's always spawning in the same group as the mish boss. Starting to track enhances too, not because I care about them but because this seems a low number of drops for those too.
Data set #4:
Test conditions: All data sets generated with a lvl 50 Elec/Shield brute, even lvl enemies, bosses included, heroes spawn as elites, spawns for 8 toons, paper missions on Freedom server.
For this run I completed the missions. One vs. CoT 1 vs. Malta
Death tally:
Minions: 122
Lieuts: 57
Bosses: 43
Drops (expected with that # of enemies is 9.7 recipes):
Salvage: 31
Recipies: 4 - Air Burst (dam/rech), Titanium coat: End, Range, and Damage
Enhances: 1 - WetWare Eng Neuralizer (yes exactly 1 and same as last test)
Notes: This time I got the bosses I expected (didn't change anything since last test except these were new mishs). Had 1 hostage escort (Malta) and 1 Boss smash. Still getting surprisingly low Enhance drops too. Ran 1 quick team mish (That big DE outdoor flier mish w DE and Longbow) with same brute today. 3-man team set for 3 heros +2 lvl, and with 59 minions 20 lieuts and 2 bosses killed, received 3 salvage and 2 recipies. Hardly a large data set, but was easy to pull out.
Unfortunately, if the changes are being passed off as a perception issue (as it seems to be, though in Synapse's defense he did say he would keep an eye on things) we aren't going to be seeing a fix to whatever the problem is, which means prices for pool A recipes are probably going to keep rising. When I made my initial market predictions about I16, I expected pool A and B recipes to drop in price substantially since people would be running normal missions instead of MA ones (which more or less has happened) but I wasn't accounting for a 30-40% reduction in enhancements dropping.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Personally, I've not noticed any differnece as never got any purple drops ever pre-i16 and after i16, also I feel that in a way if the rates have been dropped it is bringing a little sanity to the markets, especially as you can get most of your recipes now from MA tickets and merits...
TBH it just seems that people have been spoilt in the past with the number of drops they weree getting as opposed to now....
I hope so.
I had been running Unai's Thousand Worlds arc through Ouroboros before and after I16 and it is very noticably lower. I used to run it on tenacious and now I run it on +0,3 heroes, with bosses.
I was often having to go dump my recipes before my salvage filled up but now I find myself going so long my salvage fills up and I may have only 1-3 recipes to show for it.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.