Cyborg Pack - Self Destruct: Underwhelming Damage?

I tried running a search for this topic, but hadn't found any, so I've made one (I apologize if this is a redundant topic)

When I purchased the Cyborg pack when it was released, I was crazyhappyexcited over the Self Destruct power. I was under the impression that it would be on par with other nukes, such as Fallout. I was quite disappointed when, after several uses, I realized that this is not the case. In each use, the mobs that I used the power on were delt MAYBE 100 points of dmg. Using Fallout, I often see mobs damaged for several hundred points, even defeating some of the critters in the mob.

Now, I guess I should ask: what is the proper usage of the self-destruct power so that it maximizes damage? I don't necessarily want damage on the same level as Fallout or other damage-dealing nukes. But the glaringly minimal output of the power makes me not want to use it at all. I feel like I paid 10 bucks for dance emotes and costume pieces and that's it.

To me, the costs of using Self Destruct far outweigh the benefits. Here's how I see it:

1. Typical, and likely expected, usage of self-destruct would be when you have a minuscule amount of health left. Basically, it's an ohshi power. And that's how the marketers have sold it..."Some situations call for the ultimate sacrifice." Those are the exact words used by marketing.

2. After usage, you either have to go to the hospital or use an awaken that you have. Teammates cannot res you, nor can they give you inspirations (I don't think they can do anything with you once it's been used: no veng, no fallout, etc.)

3. I think this is correct, but can't find the source to confirm; the power has a 1 hour cooldown so it's not like you can use it over and over again.

4. Even if Self Destruct were to be used like a Tier 9 power, such as Inferno or Psychic Wail, while the user is at full health, the damage output would still be significantly less than either of the aforementioned powers.

5. This might be like comparing apples to oranges, but the benefits given by the Tarot Card power, which is part of the Magic Booster, are greater than Self Destruct without nearly the same costs. There's no negative after-effects, no 1 hour cooldown. As far as I can see, it's nothing but good

I love the self-destruct power. I like how it was designed and I think the costs of using the power prevent it from being exploited. However, I think the utter lack of noticeable damage makes the power un-fun and not very worthwhile to use. I'd be better off having a Defender or Controller who has fallout use my body as a nuke and then res me. MUCH greater damage to the mob AND I'm brought back to life all buffed up! WIN!

So, I've laid bare my reasoning for buffing Self-Destruct. I don't have hard numbers to support my reasoning, but maybe some of you out there do? Also, how do you feel about the Self-Destruct power (if you have it)? Do you like it? Do you use it? Do you feel like you got less "bang" (and yes, pun intended) for your buck than you were expecting?

Devs, how do YOU feel about the power? When you use it, do you feel like you got what you expected, especially for what all the costs are with using the power? Again, I'm not looking for a "super nuke" or something on par with Fallout, but maybe on par with the damage done by an exploding Warhulk. To me, damage of that kind would be what I expect from Self-Destruct.

Sorry for the ultra-long post, but I had to make my case

Hells

You do know that the Devs rarely post here, right? This forum is for asking questions to other players.


Me, personally, I use it in the lower levels, or if I'm going to die anyways in the upper levels. On my lowbie villains, it makes a wonderful travel power for getting back to my contacts.

Hmm, I guess I should've posted this on the general questions board...

If you've got a supergroup base with porters to all the zones, you can use it as a replacement Ouro portal every hour.

Nice in case you use your Ouro to get somewhere, and then realize you needed to be somewhere else.

Certainly valid points. I had not thought about the power being available from level 1 on, and having it as a full nuke at that level would be wrong. Also, I am aware that it is meant to be a "fluff" power and not one that puts it on par with other nuke-class powers. I don't believe that it should be on par with those powers, as I had stated.

I guess the "no debt" and trip to the hospital components of the power are benefits, but that's not how the power was marketed to me. Of course, I didn't buy the pack simply for the power. The emotes and costume pieces are awesome and I've certainly put them to use. I guess it could be said that my expectations of the power were higher than they should have been. I'll be sure to check all the details next time before I buy.

Oh, and Self-Destruct does 55.61 Energy damage at level 50. At level 10, 17.63.

Here's the info from City of Data: Self-Destruct

I want to roll a Blaster that goes:

Nuke+Selfdestruct+Rise of the Pheonix.

No kill like overkill.

You can actually give people inspirations. Stand near the ashes, and drop the inspiration on the name in the team tray. That achieves the same effect as dropping it on them.

Unless, y'know, for some silly reason you've got 'Dont accept Team gifts' on

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

At the top of the page is a section of powers that use this and self-destruct is listed there. Unless there's a completely different self destruct temp power that I'm unaware of....also, all of the Tarot Card temp powers are listed in the same area as Self-Destruct.

I have completed 5 mishes on my newest toon using this. I soften up all the guys in the last spawn, and just before dieing, since I dont have SO's at lvl 20- I use SD, get mish complete, and rez to hosp.

At higher levels, I use it for get out of debt free card.

on my level 50 blaster, I use it + Rise to ghost mishes. All it takes is super speed +stealth to the end, use SD, use RotP with 2 or 3 + stuns, drop a bonfire, and click the glowie/recall friend/assemble the team. Every enemy is KB'd, or Stuned, giving plenty of time to call in reinforcements/get the glowie.

Lastly, remember after using a wakie, you are debt protected. So as a really fun trick, use Aim/BU/Nuke/SD/wakie... get teleported out when they kill you again, and no debt.

Or since my blaster is Ele/Dev/Fire, go Time Bomb/count to six/Trip Mine/Thunderous Blast/blue insp if your actually out of end/SD/RotF (which refills hp & end half way)/Bonfire/VS/Aim/SC/BL. If anything short of an AV lived through that, you are dead meat. Generally the RotP on isn't even needed for anything less than an EB.

In short SD is debt prot, or a great way aroun End crash if you have self rez.

Debt prot is great and all, but that's not why I bought the pack, nor why I use the power. Again, shame on me for expecting too much from this power (thanks a lot, Marketing *shakes fist*). If I'm gonna blow myself up to try to save the team, at least make the result worth the sacrifice. The graphical representation of self-destruct is awesome. But the damage that results from it makes the power seem like a dud.

Well, one additional advantage is that as a Temporary Power, its damage is the same for all Archetypes. It might not be doing all that much damage compared to a Scrapper or a Brute with full Fury, but for a Controller or Defender, that have a lower base damage, it would be worth more.

Of course, you were talking about Fallout, so I'm assuming you're talking about a Controller or Defender. Or a Corruptor.

Another thing to consider is that the foes you tested it on might have been resistant to that type of damage. According to that CoD page, Self Destruct's damage is half Smashing, half Fire, while Fallout is entirely Energy damage.

According to CoD, Fallout should be doing half the damage of Self Destruct. Fallout does 222.44 Energy damage at level 50 (oddly, it does the same damage for all ATs, even though Controllers summon it as a different psuedo-pet) while Self Destruct should be doing 535.44 total.

If you say you're only doing about 100 points damage, the only thing I can think of is Resistances.

Then I think I need to do some further testing cause I have yet to see that kind of damage output when I use it. Am I the only one seeing this kind of "perceived" lack of damage?

When I test, I will keep the following in mind:

1. My level
2. My character
3. The level of critter that I'm fighting
4. Any buffs/debuffs/resists that the critters might have
5. Any buffs/debuffs that might be case on me
6. The overall environment (i.e. indirect buffs/debuffs)

Am I missing anything?

I have a buddy who roleplays a malfunctioning robot hero. He has self-destruct set on autofire. Every hour he blows up, no matter what he is doing.

See also: http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Malfunctioning_Eddie