I'm having trouble playing a Tanker

I am. I can't help it. I really want a tanker- I love the idea of wading in, taking hits while my teammates pick things off of me. But every time I roll a new tanker, right around level 12-18 I just can't stand it. It seems like I don't have enough damage output to kill even an LT before I run out of end, but my armor is wimpy and I can't really tank anything either. Oh, sure, I'm better than a Blaster, definitely. But I can't take many hits, still, and I don't understand why not.

I've tried Inv/SS, Fire/SS, Fire/Fire, WP/BS, and now I'm trying DA/DB. I've run into the same problem with all of them- low damage + low defense + "you're a tanker n00b go and tank" = permadeath, lack of fun.

Is there some trick I'm missing, some little detail that makes tanking fun? I know if I ever manage to get a tanker to 40+ it'll be good, but how can I get there? Thanks.

Ignore defense slotting until you have 3 6-slotted attacks with a mix of accuracy, end redux, and damage. Any damage aura should be included in that for endurance management purposes. It's better to have few slotted attacks than many unslotted attacks; it's also better to have several unslotted defensive powers in the teens than few slotted defensive powers.

Expecting much more out of a tanker at 12 than to start the engagement is unproductive. Gauntlet is extremely inefficient as a means of managing agro, with respect to your time and endurance. If you take taunt, go for it, but some tanks never achieve the level of survivability and agro management where they can monopolize the damage and survive without help doing so.

edit: Although, if you did actually play willpower (/BS?), your endurance lifestyle goes through quite at change at 12, so I'm not sure what happened there.

At 18, specifically if you take Invincibility, an Invulnerability Tanker becomes pretty strong. Frankly, I've been doing a lot of exemplaring on mine, and even before 18 and with no set bonuses he hasn't seemed so bad. I did a pair of Synapse TFs against endurance-draining electrical Clockwork attacks, pre-stamina (I took it at 22, the cutoff for Synapse is 20) and was surprised at how well I held up. I needed End and blues a lot, but was seldom drained flat.

Oh, about this part:

If you are playing Super Strengh, the damage get better after rage.

I too have trouble getting into tankers for the OP's reasons.
I'm pretty sure I know why though.

My 1st toon ever was an Energy/Energy blaster. Got him up to level 18 before getting tired of running outta endurance.

My 2nd toon ever was a Dark Melee/Regen Scrapper. Boy could this guy cook!

My 3rd toon ever was an Inv/SS Tank. He made it to level 6...


What killed it for me was the lack of damage. I know it's just the law of perception. Having played blasters and scrappers I was used to minions dropping in two hits from level 1 on. With the tank I was swinging away for what seemed like an eternity doing piddly damage. Which wouldn't have been so bad if I could have actually taken damage. I think it was the time I ran up to 2 +1 minions and started attacking, only to be killed before I got the 1st one down that shelved him (I was so in love with the concept and bio that I still have him, still level 6 after 4+years, just couldn't bring myself to delete him.)

Needless to say I went back to Blasters and never looked back. I have to think on my feet, be wary of strategy and such to survive but the massive damage allows me to feel 'Super'


When AE launched I rolled up a WP/SS and allowed him to be PL'd to 22 thinking SO's would make up the damage and survivability issues. They didn't. He was quickly deleted due to my shame in having PL'd and because he still felt squishier than my blasters...

I made up for my lack of damage by assisting the team. If they're not held or slept or locked in their own personal battles then they can more competently assist the team. If everyone is free to use their powers to best assist each other then problems can go away.

I will have no doubts in that sometimes the problem comes from some people having powers that could help, in their tray, just sitting there or from people using a power that creates problems because it was in their tray just sitting there. Everyone in the team should aim to help everyone else to the best of their abilities. The game is built to require teamwork. As a result it helps to learn what to expect off of other people. Problems can disappear on the account that you have suggested something to someone.

I often try to directly prod the prodigy with the abilities to "best solve" the problem into finding the solution themselves but then I have no ego with my toons and a few more defeats won't hurt whilst they come to work it out. A simple hold on a certain target maybe all it was.

The way to know what is wrong is from seeing what is wrong, so it is a good idea to find someone from the forums who can team with you and offer an opinion.

lvl 30+ theres nothing better in the game then a tank....end of story

Tanks are not a beginner class. You have to learn both to play and to build a tank. I think there is a lot of suffereing due to misconception. Just because you have greater survivability than most other classes, that doesn't mean your invulnerable. I've seen tanks charging into mobs, way ahead of the team and faceplanting. You still need to rely on the team. When you solo you still have to be somewhat cautious. Building your tank is a skill all its own. I had terrible trouble with my Inv/EM tank. It took me quite a long time to figure out the build and the play strategy to maximize my survivability.

Check out the player guides in the forum. They really do a good job of giving you a strong idea of what to take at what level and why.

Tanks require skill, patience and determination to play but they are without a doubt, one of, if not the, most rewarding class to play.

For what it's worth, I had trouble playing Invuln out of the gate as well and Stone was a complete write off for me. My first Tank that actually got anywhere was a Fire Tank. As others have said Invuln gets much better after 18, and even better after 20. Your Secondary can make a big difference. Tanks mature pretty late, but if you'd like something with smashy damage and good initial hit, you might try a Fire/SS they can really become beasts fast. If you want some thing that gets insanely tough, stick with your invuln, get Toughness and Weave and you won't be sorry. Also come to Tanker Tuesdays. It's a great place to get ideas and see how others have built their Tanks. Plus you get to see them in action and ask questions. Next one will be on Guardian on Sept 22, see the Guardian forum for more details. Hang in there, you're close to greatness!

Call_me_awesome has some great guides for Invuln Tanking under the Guides and FAQs section.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=133483

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=126983

Here's a thought -- come to one of the Tanker Tuesdays. There's threads on the various servers and dates in this forum, Player Events, and in the calendar items (also showing at the bottom of the forum index) so you can find when they're coming to your server(s), or just make a baby tank on the server they play on next.

Meet a whole bunch of Tanker enthusiasts, see them in action (if they ever stop chatting and actually run a mission!) and maybe a taste for tanks will rub off on you!

Couple of things that might help you out:

At lower levels I'd really only slot accuracy and end reduction in your attacks. Damage is nice, but IMO it's more important to be able to maintain endurance and not whiff your attacks before you have access to stamina and SOs.

Also, if damage is your cup of tea and you're determined to play a tanker, might I suggest trying out Shield Defense? The taunt aura for Shields, Against All Odds, gives you a permanent 10% damage buff as well as an additional 5.5% damage bonus for each mob near you up to a total of 55%. I'm lvling a SD/SM tanker right now and he's loads of fun, and my damage output is quite satisfying despite not having any damage enhancers in my attacks.

As has been pointed out, you're in a painful transitional period for a tank.

My advice to you has already been given by multiple people, but I'l condense it.

1: Leave your defense (but not your self-heals) alone early on. Go for attacks and your self-heal as soon as you can get them.

2: Slot for Accuracy (to minimize the endurance wasting MISS-MISS-MISS) aggravation. Also slot for end reduction. Possibly even a little (one slot) recharge to bring your attacks back up faster.

3: Once you get past 20 (Stamina, NO ARGUMENTS!), you can replace some of the end reduction with more recharge.

4: Take Rage and three slot for recharge as soon as possible. At that point, you can taper replace some of the Acc IOs with damage IOs.

5: With common enhancers (DO/SO/IO):

Pre-Stamina:
4 Slot Attacks: 2 Acc, 2 End
5 Slot Attacks: 2 Acc, 2 End, 1 Rech
6 Slot Attacks: 2 Acc, 2 End, 2 Rech

Post-Stamina, Pre-Rage:
4 Slot Attacks: 2 Acc, 1 End, 1 Rech
5 Slot Attacks: 2 Acc, 1 End, 2 Rech
6 Slot Attacks: 2 Acc, 1 End, 2 Rech 1 Dam

Post-Rage:
4 Slot Attacks: 1 Acc, 1 End, 1 Rech, 1 Dam
5 Slot Attacks: 1 Acc, 1 End, 1 Rech, 2 Dam
6 Slot Attacks: 1 Acc, 1 End, 1 Rech, 3 Dam

If you slot Hasten at any point, I recommend replacing one Recharge with an end reduction (unless you have two, then, go ahead and slot a Damage).

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

I had the same issue on several tanks I started then deleted in disgust. That is until my latest tanker, a WP/Fire. WP is a very well designed primary for a tanker, with key powers becoming available as they are needed during the troublesome lower levels, i.e. Quick Recovery, RttC. The 15 yd radius of Combustion is also a nice aggro grabber/dmg dealer of a power from the fire set. I pretty much cruised through the teens with very little trouble.

I also picked up the flight pool for the first time on any character for the Air Superiority power and couldn't be more pleased with how much it added to my dmg and mitigation for minimal end cost.

Edit: Wow, I type slow. By the time I got this posted two other people had already mentioned the accuracy :P

One thing I would point out is that low accuracy is an endurance killer, especially if you are soloing or in a small team. Missing means you have to attack more often to defeat a mob, which means you are going to drain your endurance bar. At low levels when all you have are TOs, forego the dmg enhancers and fill all of the slots with accuracy until at least DOs, then you can start to replace some of the accuracy with other things.

Another suggestion I have is use dual builds.

Take the advice others are offering and have a build with several attacks well slotted, but minimal armor slotting. Thats still plenty tough enough for soloing or small teams with decent players. Don't expect to take foes down as fast as a blaster, but if you did, why would anyone play a blaster?

Have another build with early armors, well slotted, and early Tough/Weave, well slotted, and Taunt. When you are on a good sized team, focus on situational awareness; is there another spawn nearby thats about to open up on that blaster who didn't see them because hes facing the wrong way, is there a boss about to mezz and stomp the defender keeping you alive, etc. Shift targets with every swing to get punchvoke. Trust me, a large team isn't hiring you because you will be taking down the mobs, they are hiring you to keep them alive while they do it. And if you do it well, it will be faster, safer XPs for everyone involved, and they will friend you and look for you next time.

I love tankers and they are by far my favourite alt, you really do need to stick with them as the early lvls are abit painful, I remember lvling my Inv/SS and it was quite horrid untill I hit 20 then things started to get better with Stamina and Rage. I didn't start slotting for Def untill I hit 50 then my tank went for being good to awesome. And with Perma rage My Inv can survive everything my Stone tank can plus tear through mobs on his own really fast.
By mixing and matching the powersets some tanks can put out quite abit of damage.

Few ATs pre-twenty 'feel right'. As a personal rule, I reserve all judgement until stamina/SO levels.

And I am not one of the 'pro-tankers' around here, but, that said...

My first foray into tankers (also an invul) felt very frustrating. I deleted it. I ended up re-rolling though and stuck with it. I found that my mindset really had to shift as a tanker. On a team, it wasn't about damage (that's nice certainly, and I agree with some of the comments above). It was about making all the mobs mad 'at me' instead of the others. YMMV of course, but its nice because it really lets me focus on the difference of the AT over the others. Now, that is harder low level - you aren't as durable as you will be, and fitting in taunt, taunt aura, attacks, and defenses/resists are all tough while trying to get stamina. I frequently find that tanks one of the hardest ATs to slot.

I finally felt comfortable as a tank 2 years later after having leveled 2 to 50, when an SG-mate told me their wife really liked playing with me as a tank "...because you never seem to lose aggro." And that is what tanking is about for me. Everything else is gravy.

I keep seeing people say the tanker is the most rewarding character to play at higher levels, why is that? I'm a total noob at this game, so I am realy interested to know what the big bonus of being a tanker is when I have been told any group make-up can pretty much roll through the content.

I would not call anyone class the "most rewarding" to play. I have a tanks, brutes, scrappers, defenders, controllers yada yada and they are all fun. I think putting a team or SF or TF together and leading them is the most rewarding. You don't have to be a tank to do that. You just need to understand how they (the players) work together.
Tanks are harder to play. And they are more work than other classes. So if you equate MORE HARD WORK = GREATER REWARDS...well than I guess you have a point there.
If you want to Tank AND do massive damage you can ...they are called Brutes. But even brutes have a tough first 20 lvls to get thru.