Ready for an influx of new players? Make the game even more newb and solo friendly!


Acemace

 

Posted

Simple fact is there is a large chunk of players who want to be able to solo. Getting teams together and keeping them intact is often frustrating when you got a kid to take care of or are on limited time or you just want to take breaks between missions.

Lots more people will be attracted to this genere ala Champions Online. Lots will get frustrated with the forced grouping dynamics. Many will be directed here.

As it stands now, AE missions provide good soloing ability to level 50, however, the ability to take a ingame mission to -1 and -2 from the fate vendor might work. Dropped enhancements should also be +4 so they are actually useable.

Also, better explaination and instructions for getting a travel power should be explained in the generator. Maybe even open the travel powers up at level 6- that's the one thing that hooks in new players as it makes the game 1000% more fun and playable.


 

Posted

I am puzzled- this is an extremely solo-friendly game. Where do you perceive forced grouping?

SOme opponents, even as Elite Bosses, are tough, especially for some ATs, and there are the few multi-click adventures. But in general? Anyone can solo.


My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demoth View Post
Simple fact is there is a large chunk of players who want to be able to solo. Getting teams together and keeping them intact is often frustrating when you got a kid to take care of or are on limited time or you just want to take breaks between missions.

Lots more people will be attracted to this genere ala Champions Online. Lots will get frustrated with the forced grouping dynamics. Many will be directed here.

As it stands now, AE missions provide good soloing ability to level 50, however, the ability to take a ingame mission to -1 and -2 from the fate vendor might work. Dropped enhancements should also be +4 so they are actually useable.
I was with you up until the bolded section. Enhancements that are +4 to you can't be slotted. In the case of Non-Crafted enhancements it's +/- 3. For IO's is +3 or less, except for Purples, which you have to be L50 for.

As for forced grouping, most of the main game is soloable. Exceptions include: "click multiple glowies at once" missions (which are plainly labelled, rare and usually droppable)
Trials, Task Forces/Strike Forces, Raids.
And some EB's/AV's for some/many individual builds. (most of these missions give a warning before you take them.)

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Also, better explaination and instructions for getting a travel power should be explained in the generator. Maybe even open the travel powers up at level 6- that's the one thing that hooks in new players as it makes the game 1000% more fun and playable.
Agreed with the bolded section. There is however, one of the (apparently loaded in random order) Tips on the mission loading screens addresses this. And of course, "You can lead a horse to water...."


 

Posted

I think what they are getting at is CO has forced grouping and that will upset a lot of the soloist that go there, in turn sending them here.

What I'm confused about it whats this really asking?
We're already getting all this and some chips with the update to the difficulty slider in Issue 16.

This game has always been solo friendly, after i16 it'll be even more so.


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Keep Calm & Chive On!

 

Posted

Well, mainly this was posted to warn the developers not to listen to the small but vocal minority that wants to nerf the AE and force more super grouping into the game.

Now would be the worst possible time to cave to the people whining about not being able to find PUs anymore.

I also feel that many new players have been lost to this game because it does start out pretty difficult for a new player. Leveling to 14 is the most tedious part of the game, constantly running out of endurance and having to street travel with sprint. You really do not feel like a super heroe at this point. A few wrong choices in powers and now the new player is looking at what seems forever to get his travel power and stamina. No respec until 24.

For veteran players this is all meaningless. But I do feel it's the first 20 levels or so that should be made even easier with architypes like brute and scrapper pretty much hand held in the direction of stamina and a travel power each level.

Let people coming out of CO start soloing around quickly with actual super powers and not constanty resting for endurance. This would tend to retain many more of them. Maybe get rid of training enhancements and just replace em with DOs then drop SOs to 18. And explain to new players about the 3 enhancement cap. Something that major should be documented in game. Perhaps even a easy to obtain and solo respec quest at level 12, and bumping stamina over health in the fitness pool.

I think a problem with this game is it seems really tedious for the first 20 levels and then, if you made your build right, it totally kicks ***. I personally have a few friends who have tried this game and did not continue past the first 20 levels. It would not effect overall balance in any way to simply make the lower and tedious levels into easy mode.

Just some thoughts...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demoth View Post
Well, mainly this was posted to warn the developers not to listen to the small but vocal minority that wants to nerf the AE and force more super grouping into the game.

Now would be the worst possible time to cave to the people whining about not being able to find PUs anymore.

I also feel that many new players have been lost to this game because it does start out pretty difficult for a new player. Leveling to 14 is the most tedious part of the game, constantly running out of endurance and having to street travel with sprint. You really do not feel like a super heroe at this point. A few wrong choices in powers and now the new player is looking at what seems forever to get his travel power and stamina. No respec until 24.

For veteran players this is all meaningless. But I do feel it's the first 20 levels or so that should be made even easier with architypes like brute and scrapper pretty much hand held in the direction of stamina and a travel power each level.

Let people coming out of CO start soloing around quickly with actual super powers and not constanty resting for endurance. This would tend to retain many more of them. Maybe get rid of training enhancements and just replace em with DOs then drop SOs to 18. And explain to new players about the 3 enhancement cap. Something that major should be documented in game. Perhaps even a easy to obtain and solo respec quest at level 12, and bumping stamina over health in the fitness pool.

I think a problem with this game is it seems really tedious for the first 20 levels and then, if you made your build right, it totally kicks ***. I personally have a few friends who have tried this game and did not continue past the first 20 levels. It would not effect overall balance in any way to simply make the lower and tedious levels into easy mode.

Just some thoughts...
Issue 16 brings:
-faster xp gain between lvl 5 and 24
-no more end cost for brawl
-origin power end cost lowered from 6.5 to 2.verylittle
-better team mechanix

and yes AE 'nerfing' (I prefer to call it buffing ) so maybe, just maybe people will start running a few more mission PUGs.

There, half your concerns adressed.


@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMetal View Post
Issue 16 brings:
-faster xp gain between lvl 5 and 24
-no more end cost for brawl
-origin power end cost lowered from 6.5 to 2.verylittle
-better team mechanix

and yes AE 'nerfing' (I prefer to call it buffing ) so maybe, just maybe people will start running a few more mission PUGs.

There, half your concerns adressed.
So, they are going to nerf the ability to solo right at the time when people will be potentially flooding in to escape a forced grouping situation.

Dosen't seem to make much sense. If I can't run AE in peace and be forced to ask for PUs to accomplish my goals, this game would become a clone of everything else out there.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBhumeBB View Post
I am puzzled- this is an extremely solo-friendly game. Where do you perceive forced grouping?

SOme opponents, even as Elite Bosses, are tough, especially for some ATs, and there are the few multi-click adventures. But in general? Anyone can solo.
Hell anyone who plays smart can take a EB, even my troller. The only thing you are "forced" to group on is Giant Monsters, and AV's. Screw Champions Online,let them stay there so there is more room for us.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demoth View Post
So, they are going to nerf the ability to solo right at the time when people will be potentially flooding in to escape a forced grouping situation.

Dosen't seem to make much sense. If I can't run AE in peace and be forced to ask for PUs to accomplish my goals, this game would become a clone of everything else out there.
How do you get "nerf the ability to solo" out of TrueMetal's post?
This game is easily solo'ed, both in AE and in Main Game, by most AT's.
I haven't tried to solo all the AT's, but I've done it with: Tank, Scrapper, Blaster, Defender, Kheldian (briefly), Stalker, SoA, Corruptor, Brute and MM.


 

Posted

Nobody told me I should have been forced into a group when the mission giver advised me to bring some friends along. Usually I'd just throw my head back and laugh in an heroic/villainous* maner and did the mission by myself.

*Delete as appropriate


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demoth View Post
Well, mainly this was posted to warn the developers not to listen to the small but vocal minority that wants to nerf the AE and force more super grouping into the game.
... I have no idea where you're seeing this happening, because it certainly isn't in THIS game.

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Now would be the worst possible time to cave to the people whining about not being able to find PUs anymore.
There have been plenty of whiners here about exactly that. The fact that they're outnumbered often 10-15 to one by people who can list off many things they're not doing or doing wrong, means that no one really takes them seriously already.

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I also feel that many new players have been lost to this game because it does start out pretty difficult for a new player.
Again: THIS game?!

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Leveling to 14 is the most tedious part of the game, constantly running out of endurance and having to street travel with sprint.
If you redefine "tedious" as "lots of fun dinging every couple minutes" sure. ... If you didn't use sprint while fighting, you wouldn't run out of endurance. Problem solved. next!

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You really do not feel like a super heroe at this point.
I do. You must not be playing something you *enjoy*.

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A few wrong choices in powers and now the new player is looking at what seems forever to get his travel power and stamina. No respec until 24.
But to a new player they neither know nor care whether their choices are "wrong". Plus, doesn't matter: you screwed up at level 6! oh noes! ... START OVER. DING, done! back to 6 in less than an hour. As for stamina: don't need it. Not everyone "needs" it. If you do, you probably will want to ask around for help on your builds.

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For veteran players this is all meaningless. But I do feel it's the first 20 levels or so that should be made even easier with architypes like brute and scrapper pretty much hand held in the direction of stamina and a travel power each level.
I'm a 60 month vet, and I start the game at level 1 just like someone who's picked it up off a shelf. Why is it meaningless?

** Yes, I have several vet reward powers that I love to use at early levels - and whenever a newcomer sees me using them, they ask how I got it, and then they're hyped because *they can eventually get one too*.

Again: if you NEED stamina, you're not playing well.

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Let people coming out of CO start soloing around quickly with actual super powers and not constanty resting for endurance.
... Champions Online hasn't even exited beta yet and has a long way to go before people that are IN it think it's worth having live. How about let them kill their own game and play experience, they'll find out about this game soon enough. Or, of course, *come back to it* like most of them doubtless will.

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This would tend to retain many more of them.
Again: let the other game sink or float on its own merits.

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Maybe get rid of training enhancements and just replace em with DOs then drop SOs to 18.
Now THIS I agree with. Enough with the trainings.

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And explain to new players about the 3 enhancement cap. Something that major should be documented in game. Perhaps even a easy to obtain and solo respec quest at level 12, and bumping stamina over health in the fitness pool.
The raw numbers are right there in front of you when you place enhancements, or hadn't you noticed that? been there a while in fact. Plus, it IS explained in the game. You just have to actually think to LOOK for that and there it is.

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I think a problem with this game is it seems really tedious for the first 20 levels
For YOU.

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and then, if you made your build right, it totally kicks ***.
My builds kick *** right off the character generator. I don't know what you're doing to gimp yourself in those first bunch of levels, but I use them to learn how I'm going to slot and make future improvements with the next bunch of powers I get. The powers are all listed right there in your power tab, you know. You can always *look at those* before assigning your next slot or power...

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I personally have a few friends who have tried this game and did not continue past the first 20 levels.
Their loss, but I strongly suspect that you had a hand in complaining about those early levels to them and may have tainted their own experiences... Everything you've said so far, tells me you hate playing this game until you've got an "I Win" button. It's got nothing to do with teaming and nothing to do with CO, it's all about you don't seem to know how to slot, use your endurance enhancements wisely, and try rushing up to the middle of the game before you're really happy with what you've made.

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It would not effect overall balance in any way to simply make the lower and tedious levels into easy mode.

Just some thoughts...
They already ARE tremendously easy. With the leveling curve in the mid and later levels now, with reduced debt, with PATROL XP especially... You can breathe hard on the keyboard and level. Whatever it is you're doing, I don't think you've got it down very well. You might consider heading up into the archetype sections and asking for some build assistance.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demoth View Post
Simple fact is there is a large chunk of players who want to be able to solo.
I'm one of them.
I solo probably 95% of the time.
I find the game very accommodating to soloing.

Lack of opportunities to solo is not one of this game's flaws.

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Maybe even open the travel powers up at level 6- that's the one thing that hooks in new players as it makes the game 1000% more fun and playable.
You can get a jet pack at level 6, which seems like a reasonable compromise to me.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demoth View Post

Lots more people will be attracted to this genere ala Champions Online.

One of the biggest consistent complaints in CO alpha/beta was it's lack of teaming necessity.

Sorry OP, as pointed out most of CoX is already solo-able, and the situations where a team is required here, are virtually the same in CO.

This can be a fairly harsh area for less then solid suggestions, poster beware. ;]






 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demoth View Post
A few wrong choices in powers and now the new player is looking at what seems forever to get his travel power and stamina. No respec until 24.
Although there's effectively a 'free respec' available to all from level 10, when the alternate build opens up.


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Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.

 

Posted

I'd be in favor of a travel power being available much earlier than 14 - and I'm not sure it'd upset the balance of the power pools that much either.Maybe open up the travel pools at the avatar creation process instead of 6, so you'd pick your primary power set, your secondary power set, and your travel pool, so you could take like Hover right from level 1, and then at 5 or 6, you'd get your second pick from your travel pool, which would match up nicely with you being sent out into the wider city after you'd done the starting zone.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I'd be in favor of a travel power being available much earlier than 14 - and I'm not sure it'd upset the balance of the power pools that much either.Maybe open up the travel pools at the avatar creation process instead of 6, so you'd pick your primary power set, your secondary power set, and your travel pool, so you could take like Hover right from level 1, and then at 5 or 6, you'd get your second pick from your travel pool, which would match up nicely with you being sent out into the wider city after you'd done the starting zone.
There's a vet reward that lets you skip the prerec for your travel powers.
They don't seem amenable to handing them out to the general public though.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
There's a vet reward that lets you skip the prerec for your travel powers.
They don't seem amenable to handing them out to the general public though.
Would it unbalance the power pick progession if they brought them forward to 5 or 6, and had a travel pool open right fromt he start, do you think?


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Which CoH have you been playing?

With the ability to turn the difficulty into friggin' -1 to your level soloing has NEVER been easier. Issue 16 will bring faster lower leveling, violent art, and a new teaming system.

And why the heck are you complaining about not being able to run the AE in issue 16?


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Would it unbalance the power pick progession if they brought them forward to 5 or 6, and had a travel pool open right fromt he start, do you think?
The ample speed at which you can level to 14 now I think such a thing is unnecessary. Although the ability to get the travel power itself would be nice over having to select unnecessary things for your character at times.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I'd be in favor of a travel power being available much earlier than 14 - and I'm not sure it'd upset the balance of the power pools that much either.Maybe open up the travel pools at the avatar creation process instead of 6, so you'd pick your primary power set, your secondary power set, and your travel pool, so you could take like Hover right from level 1, and then at 5 or 6, you'd get your second pick from your travel pool, which would match up nicely with you being sent out into the wider city after you'd done the starting zone.
I'm kinda ambivalent about your suggestion to allow travel powers at 5 or 6, since we can easily get a Raptor Pack doing 3 scanners and a Safeguard, usually no later than level 6 anyway. So to me, you *are* getting a travel power at 5 or 6 if you want one.

As far as allowing travel powers from character creation (not your idea, but a next "logical" step) - absolutely not. Running everywhere teaches you aggro range of enemy spawns - a vital skill for a squishy characer and good to know info for all characters.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Ad Astra View Post
As far as allowing travel powers from character creation (not your idea, but a next "logical" step) - absolutely not. Running everywhere teaches you aggro range of enemy spawns - a vital skill for a squishy characer and good to know info for all characters.
I mean the travel pools at the creation stage - like you couldn't pick Fly until 5 or 6, you'd only have Hover available from the flight pool at level 1.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I mean the travel pools at the creation stage - like you couldn't pick Fly until 5 or 6, you'd only have Hover available from the flight pool at level 1.
I could see this as working, but Hasten would get a looking at if it were to happen. Possibly have Hasten be increased in the amount of recharge speed it buffs you with AFTER you get Super Speed? Like, say, a 40% recharge buff until level 6. Otherwise I could see this as not only working, but an interesting idea in general. Well, I would say I could see it as working, but I'm sure someone will use the mighty fault device on such a system.


 

Posted

As a 60 month vet you get access to actual travel powers at level 6 when the pools open. No OTHER pool powers that way, but the 4 travels.

And there are a lot of us, actually...

But yeah you can still get a reasonable ability to get around at level 5 or 6 doing mayhem/safeguards, and if you act appropriately polite and sensible about it you can just get on a supergroup with a teleporter setup.Travel is not an issue, really.


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