i know what you mean about specifics, but i was making a summary of sorts of what the arguments boil down to.
essentially, yeah, blasters do the best damage, and pay for it by having arguably the worst "inherit" (via actual powers to protect themselves, other than controls) defenses.
However, other ATs can APPROACH their damage levels (be it St or AOE, disregarding the exceptions like AR for AoE or NRG(melee) for ST, etc) while having a disproportionate amount of survivability to boot
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Not trying to pick on you per se, but I found this line entertaining, and funny, and a bit entertaining. |
Originally Posted by Fury_Flechette
I also have energy torrent as well too...
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Just poking into the thread for a laugh, and I found it in more than just the OP, which was unexpected.
I just want blasters secondary sets to be more worthwhile. I find half or more of most secondary sets are usually completely skippable.
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By that argument Dominators are roughly as "defenseless" as Blasters, as they have comparable inherent defenses other than controls. Specifically, Dominators get less HP while having slightly higher numbers on Epic pool armours. And that's just silly.| essentially, yeah, blasters do the best damage, and pay for it by having arguably the worst "inherit" (via actual powers to protect themselves, other than controls) defenses. |
Mind, I'm not saying that Blasters aren't squishy, I'm just raising the point that leaving out controls when considering Blaster squishyness is not going to be in any way accurate.
As for the OP, amongst the various problems with his/her "by the numbers" analysis that have already been pointed out, I can't help but notice that despite mentioning Defiance in the post, no mention of it's actual effects on Blaster damage is made. I know that it's very difficult to estimate it's overall impact on damage, but it still has to be considered.
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I disagree. On my Fire/Elec, I took five powers. That's more than half in the secondary. The same goes for my Psy/Fire, Sonic/EM, and Ice/EM.
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Originally Posted by DragonEye
I just want blasters secondary sets to be more worthwhile. I find half or more of most secondary sets are usually completely skippable.
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Disagree as well. Currently, on my AR/EM blaster I have 5 primary powers and 8 secondary powers.
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Originally Posted by DragonEye
I just want blasters secondary sets to be more worthwhile. I find half or more of most secondary sets are usually completely skippable.
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this.
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Originally Posted by Player99
However, other ATs can APPROACH their damage levels (be it St or AOE, disregarding the exceptions like AR for AoE or NRG(melee) for ST, etc) while having a disproportionate amount of survivability to boot
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Dominators have their whole pirmary devoted to control, meaning they can protect themselves much more easily than a blaster with a stun or a hold here or there can|
Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly
By that argument Dominators are roughly as "defenseless" as Blasters, as they have comparable inherent defenses other than controls. Specifically, Dominators get less HP while having slightly higher numbers on Epic pool armours. And that's just silly.
Mind, I'm not saying that Blasters aren't squishy, I'm just raising the point that leaving out controls when considering Blaster squishyness is not going to be in any way accurate. . |
what i meant in the statement was that blasters only have a few control powers to work with, and shouldnt really be considered because it isnt consistant like it is with Dominators (which have half their build devoted to the task)
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Originally Posted by Player99
Dominators have their whole pirmary devoted to control, meaning they can protect themselves much more easily than a blaster with a stun or a hold here or there can
what i meant in the statement was that blasters only have a few control powers to work with, and shouldnt really be considered because it isnt consistant like it is with Dominators (which have half their build devoted to the task) |
Whatever it is you're smoking, you should stop. Blasters have lots of controls in their primary and secondary, except for Fire.
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Actually, other ATs can't really reach that damage of a blaster though. Controllers? Nope. Defenders? Nope. Tanks? Nope. Scrappers? Maybe spines for AoE and fire for ST, but they can't easily hit as many targets as a blaster can along with doing it from afar.|
Originally Posted by Player99
However, other ATs can APPROACH their damage levels (be it St or AOE, disregarding the exceptions like AR for AoE or NRG(melee) for ST, etc) while having a disproportionate amount of survivability to boot
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So...ya. Blasters are fine.
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Not true. Most blasters have a fair amount of controls available to them, usually enough to negate a mayority of incoming damage in solo situations.|
Originally Posted by Player99
what i meant in the statement was that blasters only have a few control powers to work with, and shouldnt really be considered because it isnt consistant like it is with Dominators (which have half their build devoted to the task)
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Let´s have a look at all the sets. I'll ignore the nukes because they don't come too often into solo play. I'm considering solo play over team situations because (in my experience, YMMV, warranty void in Oklahoma) teamed Blasters don't have to deal with more than one or two enemies per spawn. Less than solo encounters.
-Fire Blast: Not having mitigation is what it does. Gets extra damage in exchange.
-Ice Blast: Two holds, all attacks give slow and -rech.
-Elec Blast: One hold and an end drain of doubtful utility
-Archery: One stun and an AoE with chance for KB.
-Assault Rifle: One stun and two AoEs with chance for KB
-Energy Blast: All powers have a chance for KB/D
-Psychic Blast: One chance for sleep, one chance for KB, an AoE with KU and a stun. All powers without a mez effect do -rech.
-Sonic Attack: AoE Sleep that is perma before slotting, AoE KB and stun.
The secondaries:
-Devices: Immob with - rech, Caltrops, short range stun, minor -tohit in Smoke grenade, KB in the mines.
-Energy Manipulation: Meelee KB, two chance for meelee stuns and two meelee stuns. Plus Powerboost, that gives a very large boost to all mez effects the Blaster can throw out during 15 seconds.
Electric Manipulation: Immob, two meelee chances for sleep, one with chance for KD, AoE KB and chance for Stun, meelee KB with chance for stun and AoE KB, End drain power of doubtful utility, unless paired with Elec Blast.
-Fire Manipulation: As with the Blast set, fire exchanges the safety of mezzes for extra damage. It still gets a rather useless fear effect in Burn and a much more useful slow+fear in Hot Feet.
-Ice Manipulation: Immob, two AoE slows and -rech, location-based AoE KD, hold, AoE sleep that is perma without enhancements. All meelee attacks also deal -rech.
-Mental Manipulation: Immob with -rech, meelee KB, PBAoE with small chance for confusion, short duration ranged fear, PBAoE with chance for stun.
Barring extreme the rather extreme case of Fire/Fire most Blaster combinations in fact do offer substantial amounts of control. No, this is not as much as Dominators or Controllers get. It is, however an amount that damn well should be considered when considering Blaster survivability levels. Those controls are one of the main two ways Blasters have of significantly mitigating incoming damage.
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Devil's Advocate:|
Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly
Barring extreme the rather extreme case of Fire/Fire most Blaster combinations in fact do offer substantial amounts of control. No, this is not as much as Dominators or Controllers get. It is, however an amount that damn well should be considered when considering Blaster survivability levels. Those controls are one of the main two ways Blasters have of significantly mitigating incoming damage. |
Melee sets generally receive significant amounts of control and/or proactive mitigation tools, too. It isn't that anyone's wilfully ignoring Blaster control powers; it's that their effect is both difficult to quantify in any meaningful way, and is pretty well offset by the proactive options available to the subjects of comparison.
Numerically speaking, you can say that the average Blaster has access to more controls than many other builds, but that's a practically meaningless metric by which to judge the actual extent of proactive mitigation. Why? Because whereas Blasters most often have to plan around using this-or-that control ability, a lot of meleers are given proactive mitigation in the natural course of their fights. Even when the control effect in question isn't attached to an actual attack power, the meleer is almost always already in the ideal position from which to use it.
It's a little like comparing the stuns from Energy Manipulation to the KB in Energy Blast (in a solo setting). Sure, on paper, the stuns are probably better in terms of mitigation, but in practice, the KB will tend to offer better mitigation over time, because it's safer and easier to apply.
Most melee sets offer decent if not truly impressive amounts of mitigation -- which, even if it's less powerful in isolation, is more powerful to begin with, because whatever mitigation a meleer can gain from proactive mechanisms is multiplied by his other defensive powers. Thus, whatever little tricks the Blaster has in his pocket are largely irrelevant to the comparison.
Same thing goes for other squishies, to a greater or lesser extent depending on AT and powerset.
And no offense, but the comparison between Dominators and Blasters is laughable. Adding in that little disclaimer, "not as much as Doms or Controllers, sure," is the very essence of understatement. No Blaster -- no matter how controllery the build -- will ever be confused with a character tossing around 30+ second, mag-6, AoE stuns.
Edit: It's also worth noting that the very setting you chose -- the solo setting -- is precisely where the Blaster is least advantaged in any comparison. In team play, it's pretty obvious that Blasters are the best damage dealers, generally speaking. In solo play, however, Blasters' squishiness is a larger factor than their various, often intangible, offensive advantages. No amount of single-target holds is going to make a Blaster a Scrapper's equal when it comes to the sheer volume and variety of content they can easily solo. After Issue 16 introduces the team-size slider, the disparity -- which has already been highlighted by the advent of IOs and the so-called uber build -- will only grow less favorable for the Blaster.
Any build can solo solo-spawned missions reasonably well. No one here, to my knowledge, has complained that their Blasters routinely die against a three-minion spawn. Rightly or wrongly, I believe the source of the (newer) complaints has to do with peak ability.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I would like to see the numbers showing another Blaster primary vs. spines...
like Electric blast or AR...
AR is laughable... Electric is good for a chuckle...
I want end drain protection... inherent
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
Nothing wrong with blasters, maybe its your playstyle. I even use snipe on occasion in PvP so I don't know where you are coming from here.
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problem with these is that it not only varies from set combo to set combo, but effectivness within the set.|
Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly
click the arrow to see the post.
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For example, NRG blast has good migitation WHEN IT PROCS. alot of the stuff mentioned is only a chance of happening.
This kinda stuff is easily outclassed by Doms/controllers with their gaurenteed controls that every combo gets, or by corrs and defs that get debuffs or self buffs/heals to migitate damage.
as for Ats that approach blaster damage:
Some controllers, scrappers, brutes, dominators.
all of which are greatly more survivable either from great control or just built in protection
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You're painting it far too bleak. Energy Blast has a lot of KB through all its attacks, and leveraging that is quite easy. It has two AOEs at 60%, and firing those off in quick succession will knock most, if not all of the mob down. You also have a ranged attack that will always KB. KB is pretty much its mitigation, and you can do quite well with it. |
Originally Posted by Player99
problem with these is that it not only varies from set combo to set combo, but effectivness within the set.
For example, NRG blast has good migitation WHEN IT PROCS. alot of the stuff mentioned is only a chance of happening. This kinda stuff is easily outclassed by Doms/controllers with their gaurenteed controls that every combo gets, or by corrs and defs that get debuffs or self buffs/heals to migitate damage. as for Ats that approach blaster damage: Some controllers, scrappers, brutes, dominators. all of which are greatly more survivable either from great control or just built in protection |
Blasters have enough mitigation for what they need to do. The question isn't whether it's as good as Controllers or Dominators, as that would be silly. Players of those ATs would rightly be howling if Blasters had massive AOE controls and damage potential. As it is, Blasters can be set up to reliably hold a boss (which is quite a lot), and control mobs enough to let their damage do the trick.
And people need to stop bringing up melee characters when talking about Blasters. Yes, you can do nice damage with Scrappers and Brutes. But again, it's really not going to compare to the overwhelming ranged abilities of a Blaster. Just one Blaster on a team can make a Scrapper feel a tad superfluous, as targets all over your screen drop before you can get to them, or after you just get in a hit or two.
Blasters do have less survivability that other characters, sure. And who wouldn't want to have more when they see what a Scrapper, Brute, Tank can take? There's just that question of game balance... people are neglecting a Blaster's firepower and ranged ability. Just as a Blaster would love to be tougher, a Tanker or Scrapper would love to have more damage and the ranged capabilities of a Blaster.
Blasters are well balanced... some powersets likely need tweaking (Devices being one for sure), but that's it.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Feel free to bring a Spines scrapper to the wall in Cimerora and try to keep up with my AR blaster. You'll see what laughable really means then...
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Originally Posted by Gr33n
I would like to see the numbers showing another Blaster primary vs. spines...
like Electric blast or AR... AR is laughable... Electric is good for a chuckle... I want end drain protection... inherent |
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But isn't that kind of the point of the AT? Every AT is going to encounter situations where they do not perform at peak efficiency. Solo is going to be one of those for Blasters and Defenders, in many cases. The flip side of the coin, is that Scrappers while performing well solo, will bring less to a team than a Defender or Blaster in almost all cases. I don't see why it seems to be so hard for some people to grasp this concept. (That's just a general statement and not directed at you specifically.) All AT's are not meant to perform at equal levels in all situations. That would make for an immensely boring game. |
Originally Posted by Obitus
Edit: It's also worth noting that the very setting you chose -- the solo setting -- is precisely where the Blaster is least advantaged in any comparison. In team play, it's pretty obvious that Blasters are the best damage dealers, generally speaking. In solo play, however, Blasters' squishiness is a larger factor than their various, often intangible, offensive advantages. No amount of single-target holds is going to make a Blaster a Scrapper's equal when it comes to the sheer volume and variety of content they can easily solo. After Issue 16 introduces the team-size slider, the disparity -- which has already been highlighted by the advent of IOs and the so-called uber build -- will only grow less favorable for the Blaster.
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All AT's can solo content on Heroic/Villainous. That's all that is needed. Blasters can handle EB's solo if played competently. Heck, a properly built Blaster can solo AV's as well. Once a Blaster's survivability issues have been taken care, either by a team or through other means, they will in general, be able to defeat larger groups and defeat them at a faster pace than Scrappers.
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This is so off-base it's really pretty ridiculous.|
Originally Posted by Seraphael
Compared to VEATs the amount of survivability a Blaster gives up just makes no sense. Generally speaking, VEATs have access to more AoE firepower than most Blasters, especially if including epics.
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Yes, you can build Blasters which aren't very AoE oriented, but an actually AoE oriented Blaster isn't even on the same planet as a VEAT for AoE firepower. I speak this from a position of experience with both.
Yes, on their own a VEAT's mitigation can be vastly higher than most Blasters', and (as noted many times in this thread) there's not a simple inverse relationship between damage potential and mitigation on any AT with self-mitigation tools. But to claim that a VEAT can access more AoE firepower than "most Blasters" is simply inaccurate.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Yes, of course. But like it or not, most of these discussions comparing such-and-such to this-or-that are based, even if only subconsciously, on solo situations. Otherwise, the self-contained capabilities of a given AT would be only very tenuously relevant.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
But isn't that kind of the point of the AT? Every AT is going to encounter situations where they do not perform at peak efficiency. Solo is going to be one of those for Blasters and Defenders, in many cases. The flip side of the coin, is that Scrappers while performing well solo, will bring less to a team than a Defender or Blaster in almost all cases. I don't see why it seems to be so hard for some people to grasp this concept. (That's just a general statement and not directed at you specifically.) All AT's are not meant to perform at equal levels in all situations. That would make for an immensely boring game.
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It becomes worse when you introduce IOs and whatnot into the equation.
That said, the poster to whom I responded was making the claim that Blasters' control abilities are most often relevant in solo situations. He also implied that they provide a Blaster with vast survivability in those situations. While that may be true in a vacuum, it's not particularly revelatory, nor are a Blaster's proactive mitigation tools in any way unique or even unusually effective.
They just seem that way because you don't have a whole lot else going for you on a Blaster. Having access to three short-duration, single-target holds is great, but in many cases another AT will have a single power (or a singular secondary effect) that trumps those either in terms of efficiency, or overall control, or both.
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| All AT's can solo content on Heroic/Villainous. That's all that is needed. Blasters can handle EB's solo if played competently. Heck, a properly built Blaster can solo AV's as well. Once a Blaster's survivability issues have been taken care, either by a team or through other means, they will in general, be able to defeat larger groups and defeat them at a faster pace than Scrappers. |
Yes, Blasters will generally be able to defeat foes faster, all else being equal. The question is, and always has been, whether the role of defeating things really fast is such a worthwhile one that it justifies other ATs' having most of a Blaster's kill speed, and far more survivability, to boot. At what point is the equation balanced?
I don't pretend to know the answer to that, and I like my Blasters where they are. But to say that Blasters are obviously and perfectly balanced because they kill faster, by a relatively small and often situationally-dependent margin, strikes me as no more sound an argument than the opposite. Neither, in other words, is self-evident.
And that's even more true now that we have Dominators running around with a 12.5% smaller damage scalar. The damage scalar doesn't tell the whole story, of course, but then again Doms also have another, valuable role besides damage dealing. They can do both.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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I think the OP forgot this game is balanced towards SO's and not toons IO'd out to the gills. Once IO's were added, endurance issues no longer barred toons from min/maxing. Recharge issues no longer existed, making it viable to use 1 or 2 attacks for your main damage chunks, thus increasing AT's damage to numbers never before seen outside of serious awesomesauce buffing.
Blasters are by no means underpowered. Though I do admit some of the secondaries lack a real wow-factor.
I have only two level 50 Blasters.
The first is Fire/Ice. A ranged AoE damage monster with Shiver and Ice Patch. And Rise of the Pheonix slotted for Damage and Recharge (it's not a coincidence that his RoTP recharges on nearly exactly the same timer as Inferno...)
The other is a Sonic/Elec, a melee resistance-debuffing Single-Target damage monster with capped Smashing/Lethal defence, plus Siren's Song and Hibernate.
Both toons can comfortably solo Elite Bosses, and if I had to place their survivability I'd put them roughly on-par with my Fire Tanker (who took Air Superiority, Tough, Burn and Energy Torrent - he's not short of mitigation either). I have a heavilly-IO'ed Spines/DA Scrapper, which feels rather squishy by comparison (at least against anything other than Psionic damage mobs - and he took Tough and Energy Torrent too...)
There are a lot of good Controls available in Blaster powersets even before you start layering on the IOs. My Fire/Ice Blaster in particular is probably my most fun toon to play with just the regular IO sets (no +defense, just accuracy and recharge) and regularly ends up being the highest contributing damage dealer on teams as well as a solid pseudo-controller/debuffer (not to mention being a total Duracell bunny. "Rise of the Pheonix" needs a good nerfing!!).
Whilst my Spines/DA can approach my Fire/Ice's AoE damage output, it needs to be a certain type of mob (low Lethal resistances) and needs much more work - to kill any given mob, the scrapper requires [two cones, two damage auras and one PBAoE] versus the Blaster's [One Cone + one Ranged AoE] or [One PBAoE and one Self-rez].
And don't forget the Spike damage potential. Aim + Build Up > just Build Up.
To draw another parallel - my "Namesake", a Katana/Regen Scrapper, is roughly as survivable as my Sonic/Elec Blaster. They can both cap defence - the Blasters' Smashing/Lethal versus the Scrapper's Melee/Lethal - they both have "GodMode" powers - the Scrapper's Moment of Glory or Instant Healing versus the Blaster's Hibernate. The Regen's two Heals versus the Blaster's Aid Self, Cone Sleep and Melee Hold (I didn't take Screech, but did take Shocking Grasp). Their ST and AoE damage output are even even roughly similar when you factor in resistances to Lethal Damage and Build Up + Aim. And the Scrapper has five sets of Purple IOs and damage Procs up the whazoo, whilst the Blaster has an eclectic mixture of cheapo +S/L defence-granting Frankensets.
Now I'll readily admit that there are certain combinations of Blaster powersets that perform poorly at certain things. However, the same is true for scrappers. There is simply no way that a well-specced Broadsword/Regen can come close to the sustained DPA of a well-specced Katana/Regen, for example... their attacks simply take too long to animate and any Damage Procs in the Katana attacks will seal the deal... but in Spike damage - read: "one large swing" rather than "optimum damage chain over over ten seconds" - the Broadsword will win out over the pointy stick.
Apologies for the rather long post.
(In closing, in response to a comment about energy torrent: I love Energy Torrent from the Scrapper Epics!! It's knockDOWN and very, very nearly the same damage as Throw Spines. Which should really say something about Scrapper AoE potential... completely rubbish at spike damage, but very decent if you let them position themselves right and chain a few attacks together... I do wish Blasters had access to the Scrapper version...)
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True.| That said, the poster to whom I responded was making the claim that Blasters' control abilities are most often relevant in solo situations. |
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| He also implied that they provide a Blaster with vast survivability in those situations. |
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| While that may be true in a vacuum, it's not particularly revelatory, nor are a Blaster's proactive mitigation tools in any way unique or even unusually effective. |
And yes, I'm aware I've used the word relevant a lot in this post. That's because it's the only point I've tried to make thus far.
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Relevant.
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Relevantrelevantrelevantrelevantrelevantrelevantre levantrelevant.
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I'll stop now.
On the actual subject of this thread, Scrapper vs. Blaster damage, comparing the respective toughness of the two ATs, my take on the matter is that it's a fairly simple issue. You want them on teams for (mainly) one thing: Damage. Or filling a farm, but I think they are perfectly balanced for that.
Blasters offer damage, damage and more damage. The down side is that they require some attention and loving care to deal this damage. A Blaster practicing facial agriculture can't do his or her or its job.
Scrappers offer less damage, particularly in the AoE department. On the other hand, they don't require any attention or care, except to tell them not to go aggro another spawn, or to wait for the rest of the team, or any other of those delightful behaviours Scrappers love indulging in and are so proud of.
So what you have is a tradeoff. Will the team be able to keep the Blaster alive? In that case you want a Blaster. The Scrapper's higher survivability is a moot point, because he won't be needing it. Might as well turn his toggles off/not click defensive powers and use the extra end to kick more ***. However, if the team doesn't have enough aggro management/debuffs/buffs/controls, then the Scrapper becomes a better option because the Blaster's better damage is irrelevant if he spends his time running away from angry mobs or tasting free samples of carpet.
In conclusion, I don't think Blasters need any particular buffing. They perform well at their intended role on teams and can solo at a very decent pace if they leverage what mitigation they have. Do scrappers solo better? Damn right they do. It's their speciality. It's what they do best. They pay for it by not having a specialised role in teams. They can tank, but not as well as Tankers. They do damage, but not as much as Blasters. They can control and buff/debuff, but everybody does that better than them.
TL;DR: Blasters are fine.
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And you ignored the reasons I laid out as to why those proactive tools are not relevant.|
Originally Posted by SlyGuyMcFly
And yes, I'm aware I've used the word relevant a lot in this post. That's because it's the only point I've tried to make thus far.
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If Archetype A has X, and Archetype B has X and Y, then you simplify by ignoring X. You cannot legitimately argue that a Blaster's proactive mitigation tools (such as they are) are relevant and then argue that a Scrapper's aren't.
Since no one has ever brought up such Scrapper tools in this thread, your post was effectively asking us to compare a whole Blaster to half a Scrapper. What makes more sense is to take proactive mitigation tools as a wash, give or take in the case of different builds, and concentrate on the crux of the matter: Damage versus defense.
Unless, of course, you can say with a straight face that the controls of a Blaster uniformly outweigh the tools in melee sets -- which would be absurd, frankly. I can stack stuns on a boss with an MA Scrapper in the time it takes an EM Blaster to cast Total Focus. I can have my target on his backside more than half the time on an SS Brute. I can keep half a spawn stunned on a Stone Brute. I can give myself ~30% melee DEF in the course of my attack chain on a Broadsword/Katana Scrapper. I can heal and debuff ToHit in the course of my normal attack chain with a DM Scrapper/Brute.
Shall I go on, or can we in good faith move past the canard that Blaster controls somehow represent a vastly underrated and undermentioned facet of their survivability? In a perfect world, if we could somehow accurately quantify the effect of these proactive tools over the wide spectrum of possible builds, then sure, that would be the best thing -- but the fact is that it would be a monumental effort to determine what is, on its face, relatively speaking a miniscule factor in any numerical comparison. Defiance is about seven thousand times easier to quantify, by the way.
Simply counting control powers or control effects is misleading. It's not that I personally disagree with your over-arching conclusion; it's that I don't think your specific argument carries much weight here.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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You're not really analyzing all the variables, though. Some Tankers complain because they can have their survivability upped so far (their caps are the same as Tankers I believe) and so easily (that's the arguable bit), while having access to Fury. And of course there's things like aggro control to that equation (and more), so it's not an easy discussion. Same thing for Tankers vs. Scrappers.
Oh, and Blasters vs. Scrappers, of course. It's not just damage and survivability (however you quantify that term) there. Ranged attacks and AOE ability are HUGE factors that have to be taken into account there. Blasters having many mitigation tools is also something to consider (Scrappers have some too, as well, but Blasters usually have bigger AOE and ranged capabilities there, too).
Scrappers and Blasters are different. They both do damage, but they do it differently. I don't think either is really going to push out another. Of the two, Scrappers can come up with the short end of it. If you want to look at it in a team, you can make the argument that a Blaster is much more wanted than a Scrapper... in terms of damage, a Blaster is going to pour out a lot more: ranged damage and AOE is that big of a difference.
Of course, every AT is helpful, but no AT is NEEDED in CoX, which is a good thing. Some encounters require some planning, but you can handle just about everything in game with any combination of ATs.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory