Discussion: Powerset Proliferation with Floyd Grub
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2009-08-13 16:03 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Guy wrote a good article until he added the Kill Skulls and as every illiterate-aliterate gang-banger knows its Kill Skuls noob.
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Here's the Claws custom skin page from Paragonwiki. None seems to quite match what is in the picture. They do look like Hero Claws coming from the knuckles instead of the back of the hand.
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Originally Posted by Mikuruneko
Memory check...
I noticed in the screenshots from that article that the villain (assuming it's a villain) with claws in one of the shots has his claws coming out from between his fingers, instead of being attached to the top like I remember Claws being. Have I just forgotten this option? Or is this a new visual style for Claws? |
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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It's possible that once the Tanker/Scrapper versions go Live they can perhaps later on work on the reside versions. Frankly though as much as I'd like to see the red side versions get reordered so as to have Energize earlier, I think we can manage. Also this change to electric armor just might be what makes me put the batteries back into my electric brute who has been gathering dust for some time.
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Originally Posted by Shrikefire
Ugh, this Energize reordering thing strikes me as unfair. While it may be a technical difficulty, it's just unacceptable to realize that the power is needed earlier and just leave it be for the redside archetypes. Just because its easier to implement it with the creation of a "new" powerset doesn't justify slighting the players who have had to deal with the pre buffed set for so long.
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Every PvP Scrapper will be changing out that laser eye beam blast for whatever ranged attack they can get in the new fire patron.
Lots of good stuff in this issue. Can't wait to get my hands on it!
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As cool as that would be, that would mean we'd need a new patron that gives Earth powers.|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
I think so too, BUT this means that they can potentially get it with an earth mastery pool.
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I'm for it!
The way I read it, Brutes and Stalkers are getting the change to the power, they just aren't getting the power any earlier. Also, if you look at it Electric Brutes will get Energize at the exact same level they currently get Energy Drain (Energy Aura) so, they're not really missing out that much.
Tanks and Scrappers will probably get Lightning Reflexes and Energize swapped around.
If they changed the order of the powers for already existing characters it would break a lot of builds that took Lightning Reflexes at 20 or 22. If you can't get the power until 28 after they change it, it would just disappear. Energize being taken at 28 wouldn't matter, because it would still be available by then.
I expected that change to be honest. They CAN'T let tanks and scrappers keep Conserve Power, because it's available in their APPs. They aren't going to allow the potential for perma Conserve Power by doubling up on it.
Hopefully with that in mind Brutes and Stalkers DO get the change, seeing as how Conserve Power and Power Sink in the same set are kind of redundant.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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This.
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Originally Posted by Shadow_Wail
Hmmm...I am piqued by the extra powers in the pools...very piqued!
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The point of potentially having perma Conserve Power is probably the cause for the change, I mean, don't get me wrong.. It'd be really awesome to switch up the Ancillary and powerset version, but OP'd.. I'm really looking forward to seeing Energize in action. I've already got a name saved for my pure electric tan-scra-tank-scrap.. Well one of those..|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The way I read it, Brutes and Stalkers are getting the change to the power, they just aren't getting the power any earlier. Also, if you look at it Electric Brutes will get Energize at the exact same level they currently get Energy Drain (Energy Aura) so, they're not really missing out that much.
Tanks and Scrappers will probably get Lightning Reflexes and Energize swapped around. If they changed the order of the powers for already existing characters it would break a lot of builds that took Lightning Reflexes at 20 or 22. If you can't get the power until 28 after they change it, it would just disappear. Energize being taken at 28 wouldn't matter, because it would still be available by then. I expected that change to be honest. They CAN'T let tanks and scrappers keep Conserve Power, because it's available in their APPs. They aren't going to allow the potential for perma Conserve Power by doubling up on it. Hopefully with that in mind Brutes and Stalkers DO get the change, seeing as how Conserve Power and Power Sink in the same set are kind of redundant. |
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Originally Posted by Obscure_Blade
Here's the Claws custom skin page from Paragonwiki. None seems to quite match what is in the picture. They do look like Hero Claws coming from the knuckles instead of the back of the hand.
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Probably looking at flares or maybe fire blast.|
Originally Posted by JDouble_NA
Every PvP Scrapper will be changing out that laser eye beam blast for whatever ranged attack they can get in the new fire patron.
Lots of good stuff in this issue. Can't wait to get my hands on it! |
I think the latter is what we'll be seeing.
I'm interested in seeing the makeup of this pool.. Will Consume be in it? What other powers could be put in where it's not going over board.
I have a DM/FA/DM scrapper right now, pretty awesome. Immob, soul drain, burn. Punch what is left.
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they could and should it would just be a free respec moment
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Originally Posted by Raithnor_Mal
The only thing I can think of is that they can't reorder a powerset that has already "gone live". If they swapped the powers then after I16 went live you'd have LR turn into Energize slotted like LR or some variation thereof.
To be honest I'd be more than happy to burn a respec when I16 hits. I'd have to do one anyways because I want to see if Energize make a real difference in the set performance. My current Fire/Electric brute needed a lot of specialization in order to be competent against anything other than Energy damage. |
Im not sure I will enjoy the blaze mastery in PvP I could probably deal with it better if perhaps the mighty devs could find it in their hearts to un nerf my em primary toons so that even though I will not last long in their fire DoT I can hit hard and fast like I used to to make it fair.
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They re-ordered the tanker secondaries a while back to allow them to have 3 attacks by lvl 4, instead of lvl 10. And I think that was for ALL the tanker sets at the time it was done. So them moving existing powers around in sets that are already Live has precedent.|
Originally Posted by Sermon
It's probably a design no-no to shuffle the order of powers unless absolutely necessary (though I feel like they have done it before... can't think of a for-instance though). Since no ELA scrappers or tankers exist yet, it's no problem, but changing the order of powers for existing characters is probably a real pain.
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I think they should put everyone on equal footing and let the Brutes and Stalkers enjoy the new goodness that is coming to Electric Armor. Sure folks will have to respec to fix those changes, but I can't imagine many (if any) that wouldn't see it as a big improvement.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
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Originally Posted by Catharctic
As cool as that would be, that would mean we'd need a new patron that gives Earth powers.
I'm for it! |
I think he meant once GR goes live and Dominators MAY have access to hero epic pools...
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When it comes to the changes being done to ELA for tankers, you have to realise that they are totally different beasts than brutes.
Tankers do far less damage than brutes, so they need to be able to survive longer since they cant kill stuff as fast as brutes can...
"You wear a mask to hide who you are, I wear a mask to show who I am"
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That happens in the Claws idle animation, when the claws sink into the back of the hand. If you wait a few seconds with your claws drawn the character will assume that pose. It only really looks good with the original hero claws (and the 2-claw variety), although it happens with every variety of claws.|
Originally Posted by Mikuruneko
Memory check...
I noticed in the screenshots from that article that the villain (assuming it's a villain) with claws in one of the shots has his claws coming out from between his fingers, instead of being attached to the top like I remember Claws being. Have I just forgotten this option? Or is this a new visual style for Claws? |
Blaze Mastery for Scrappers is nice, but we still need Netherworld Mastery for Tankers, Mental Mastery and Bow Mastery for Blasters, Archery Mastery and Frost Mastery for Defenders, and it only gets worse when I16 goes live, when we need Electricity Mastery for Tankers, Electron Flow Mastery for Scrappers, Weaponry Mastery for Defenders, and Radiation Mastery for Blasters. Oh, and Arrow Mastery for Scrappers, natch.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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The fact that it was all tankers may make it the exception to the rule as opposed to one lone powerset.
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Originally Posted by Ynaught
They re-ordered the tanker secondaries a while back to allow them to have 3 attacks by lvl 4, instead of lvl 10. And I think that was for ALL the tanker sets at the time it was done. So them moving existing powers around in sets that are already Live has precedent.
I think they should put everyone on equal footing and let the Brutes and Stalkers enjoy the new goodness that is coming to Electric Armor. Sure folks will have to respec to fix those changes, but I can't imagine many (if any) that wouldn't see it as a big improvement. |
And in case you're wondering, it didn't mess with Tankers' builds any. If they'd taken Taunt before level 10, they still had it before level 10. They just wouldn't have been able to keep that power order if they respecced.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Whatever it is, I think it'll have to be a pretty short range attack, otherwise it wouldn't really fit in with the melee concept for Scrappers.
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Originally Posted by GATTACA_NA
Probably looking at flares or maybe fire blast.
I think the latter is what we'll be seeing. I'm interested in seeing the makeup of this pool.. Will Consume be in it? What other powers could be put in where it's not going over board. I have a DM/FA/DM scrapper right now, pretty awesome. Immob, soul drain, burn. Punch what is left. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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If you think that I can't imagine you're very familiar with every existing APP for melee ATs.
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Originally Posted by Golden_Girl_EU
Whatever it is, I think it'll have to be a pretty short range attack, otherwise it wouldn't really fit in with the melee concept for Scrappers.
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Scrappers already have Consume in Fire Armor, so my guess would be No.|
Originally Posted by GATTACA_NA
Probably looking at flares or maybe fire blast.
I think the latter is what we'll be seeing. I'm interested in seeing the makeup of this pool.. Will Consume be in it? What other powers could be put in where it's not going over board. I have a DM/FA/DM scrapper right now, pretty awesome. Immob, soul drain, burn. Punch what is left. |
My guess would be that it'll be almost (if not exactly) identical to Tanker's Fire APP.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
As someone with a 50 Elec/Elec Brute, I'm actually pretty happy to hear about the Conserve Power -> Energize change, regardless of when the power actually lands in a build order.
Electric Brutes have the odd problem of being able to resist a lot of damage just fine, but then having no way to regen the sliver of damage they do take. In any kind of group situation, that damage adds up quickly, challenging even strong healing teammates.
Willpower makes Electric look so weak by comparison, that it's hard to justify taking Electric armor. Despite having Conserve Power and Power Sink to make wasting a slot on Stamina look silly, many electrics feel that they HAVE to take a self heal of some kind, either Aid Self from the medicine pool, and/or slot the ever-loving tar out of Health.
I personally have opted for a hybrid approach-- I've got said affectionate petroleum slotted in Aid Self, such as a Numina's unique to boost my regeneration rate. I chew on my tricorder as often as I can to keep myself healthy.
With the change coming to 'Energize', I may well be able to consider dropping medicine. Although I'm pretty used to it by now and try to use my heal abilities between groups, I can definitely consider changing my slotting so that my regeneration bonuses apply to the uninterpretable Energize rather than Aid Self.
looks pretty cool. Can't wait
Hmmm ...! I *think* that Castle spells his not-so-secret identity with TWO "b"s!
That said, I'm looking forward to many of the additions which Issue 16 will be bringing to this game.
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A 5th power would be quite welcome, but will it also come with extra enhancement slots or are we going to have to manipulate and sacrifice slots from other powers?!
| "Additionally, we also conducted a mini-proliferation pass on the Ancillary and Patron Power Pools, adding 5th powers to most Pools" |
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I'm pretty sure it was Mr. Grub who misspelled Skuls.
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I must admit I love the look for the Zombies with the Thermal shields!