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That's the whole point. Fighting groups with Bosses in them sometimes makes it so it's more difficult for a Warshade to waltz in and execute powers that require enemies, defeated or alive. Also since a Warshade can only execute these powers in Human-form, they are exposed then to mez attacks from Bosses and other enemies who are not defeated yet, including added aggro from the next spawn etc.
Originally Posted by Novella
What inherent danger are you speaking of? Stygian Circle makes use of dead bodies and dead bodies are not a danger. Dark Extraction also uses dead bodies as well. Eclipse uses live enemies, and I am sure that when the power was created the devs assumed that a person would have Inky Aspect because Inky makes using Eclipse risk-free unless you are fighting groups that have a boss in them.
Granted these dangers are minute and can be mitigated by using inspirations or employing other powers before executing those powers that may render the Warshade vulnerable, but still those dangers exist, and to just add insult to injury here, imagine what happens when a Warshade on his last few points of HP rushes to a bunch of defeated enemies to use Stygian Circle only to notice at the last minute that those enemy corpses that were just there a moment ago, are... gone, and with them, the chance to completely heal! This has happened to me more than once, so it cannot be dismissed despite it being a gross miscalculation on the player's part!
And I would suggest the Devs accomplish this by improving Build Up so it's usable in the forms and its recharge time is decreased; and perhaps its duration increased. I wouldn't mind increasing the base resistance of PB's across all forms, but I'd rather see -Res added to each of our PB attacks in a stack-able manner as I have previously suggested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novella
Because Warshades have the ability to cap so easily I think it would be fairer to increase Peacebringer damage in human form leaving form damage the same and increase the base resistance by 10% across all types.
I'd love it if Photon Seekers would recharge faster, but I don't feel there's a need to change the way they behave, as I've learned to utilize them both as a PBAoE and a surprise damage/KB spike that follows me to the spawn I've teleported myself into and goes KABOOM just when I need them to... Quote:
Originally Posted by Novella
Also lowering the recharge time of Photon Seekers to the same timer as Trip Mine would be perfect for me because they are essentially a PBAoE mini-nuke since the pet AI is absolutely horrible with them. I would be happy if they changed them from pets to functioning just like Trip Mines that float but not seek.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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I was talking more of Sunless Mire being a danger and I know it isn't much of a danger due to Inky Aspect/Shadow Cloak/Eclipse, but as well as the chance you make take an alhpa to the face there are also the times when there are not enough mobs about to get much of a boost, which would never happen with a clicky Build-Up.|
Originally Posted by Novella
What inherent danger are you speaking of?
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Warshade powers need to have the ability to be much higher than PB powers because they should have a chance of falling totally flat and doing nothing, and you should need to work to get the best out of them. The PB powers should be aimed to be whatever the average Warshade player can get out of their powers.
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Originally Posted by Novella
Because Warshades have the ability to cap so easily I think it would be fairer to increase Peacebringer damage in human form leaving form damage the same and increase the base resistance by 10% across all types.
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Originally Posted by Novella
Also lowering the recharge time of Photon Seekers to the same timer as Trip Mine woud be perfect for me because they are essentially a PBAoE mini-nuke since te pet AI is absolutely horrible with them. I would be happy if they changed them from pets to functioning just like Trip Mines that float but not seek.
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British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Excellent idea.|
Originally Posted by LordXenite
[FONT=Verdana][LIST][*]Remodel Reform Essence so that it has a healing aura component that works like the Empathy/Radiation AoE Heal, thus leaving Restore Essence to heal the PB by a large amount of HP and the team around it by a modest amount of HP.
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| [*]Add a self-stacking -5% Res effect to each PB attack power, across all forms, but with a ceiling of -15% Res. If the PB uses Chance for -Res in their slotting, that effect will stack on top of the normal -Res so essentially PB's could reach -35% Res in some cases. |
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| [*]Replace Glowing Touch with a location-based pet that buffs endurance recovery and overall defense for everyone around it but the PB itself. The buffs are minor and cannot be enhanced but the pet itself cannot be attacked and is on a long cool-down that can be brought down with -Recharge slotting. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Why thank you.
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Excellent idea.
Actually, I myself like the -Def and the KB, which is why I figured the -Res self-stacking should be limited to 35%, however, the -Res and -Def as far as I understand would stack on top of any other debuffs that someone else would cast, so it seems good enough in my opinion. Perhaps it'd be even better if PB's were able to slot -Res enhancements on some of their attacks...?Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
...I don't think the stacking should be so limited. I think instead simply removing the -defense (or the KB!!) would be preferable.
I believe that would be contradictory to how I see Peacebringers so while I won't cry out against something like that, I won't hold my breath for it or otherwise promote it. Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
How about a PB style version of Force Field Generator?
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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Originally Posted by LordXenite
Why thank you.
Actually, I myself like the -Def and the KB, which is why I figured the -Res self-stacking should be limited to 35%, however, the -Res and -Def as far as I understand would stack on top of any other debuffs that someone else would cast, so it seems good enough in my opinion. Perhaps it'd be even better if PB's were able to slot -Res enhancements on some of their attacks...? |
Believe it or not, I actually like the KB too. It's annoying in some cases, but I don't think Castle will go for three secondary effects.
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I believe that would be contradictory to how I see Peacebringers so while I won't cry out against something like that, I won't hold my breath for it or otherwise promote it. |
In fact, I'm really liking what your suggestions would do. PBs as a tough as nails, Defender would be awesome IMO. Leaving the Control/Blaster to Warshades. Of course, with the forms retaining their Blaster/Tanker abilities, I don't think this would change the character of the AT too much.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I'll see your Photon Seekers suggestion and raise you an even better idea ...
Mastermind controls for Photon Seekers
- Attack
- Defend
- Passive
- Goto
- Follow
- Stay
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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You're probably right...
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
...I don't think Castle will go for three secondary effects.
That's what I was going to for.Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
It just seems like you're turning PBs into a sort of Hard-Light Traps Defender with these changes. The idea of a buff pet that gives PBs some extra team support doesn't seem out of character.
In fact, I'm really liking what your suggestions would do. PBs as a tough as nails, Defender would be awesome IMO. Leaving the Control/Blaster to Warshades. Of course, with the forms retaining their Blaster/Tanker abilities, I don't think this would change the character of the AT too much.
No way... Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlynne
Mastermind controls for Photon Seekers
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I don't think turning PBs into auto follow healbots is the right way to go, In fact I think giving PBs glowing touch was a mistake and doesnt really sit well with the rest of what they do in general, now they are kind of stuck with it, somthing like heat exhaustion would have been much better imo.
Nothing in Xenite's suggestion turns PBs into auto follow healbots.
First, the aura component to the self heal would be on the same timer as it is currently. Are you seriously expecting that people will have enough recharge to spam that?
Second, no power or design turns ANY archetype into an auto follow healbot - the player driving said archetype does. And any player who would do autospam a healing aura would do a bad job on ANY PB.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Turning any character into an auto-follow healbot is the sole responsibility of the player who sets their character on auto-follow and control-clicks an AoE heal power then sits back and watches or simply walks away.
Originally Posted by Star_Seer
I don't think turning PBs into auto follow healbots is the right way to go...
Don't pin this on individual powers, or on specific classes, because, if even an Emp/DarkBlast Defender can be played aggressively, PB's have nothing to worry about!
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I'm just saying I don't think PBs should be 'Healers' as all, but I guess that ship has sailed already when they got glowing touch.
Maybe glowing touch could be a single target heal when used on an ally and a decent single target debuff when used on an enemy.
How about adding the following to glowing touch,
When used on a foe it reduces the targets damage resistance by 25% for 10 sec, does not stack from the same caster.
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Yes, that ship has sailed long ago, however, the good news is that no one's making us take Glowing Touch anyway, so there's no problem with simply leaving GT alone.
Originally Posted by Star_Seer
I'm just saying I don't think PBs should be 'Healers' as all, but I guess that ship has sailed already when they got glowing touch.
If you've read this thread thoroughly, you'd find my suggestion includes adding a self-stacking (although with a limit) -Res debuff to every PB attack, including those in the forms. This will increase the overall damage PB's do in both solo and team play and leaves Glowing Touch out of the deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star_Seer
How about adding the following to glowing touch, When used on a foe it reduces the targets damage resistance by 25% for 10 sec, does not stack from the same caster.
The idea of allowing a PB to have an AoE heal was, as mentioned, only so that Glowing Touch will not feel such a terrible waste that requires the PB to target an ally, ensure the ally and PB are within GT's range, switch to Human-form and activate Glowing Touch, only to heal the ally with a modest heal that will be countered the next time the ally gets hit.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
It's interesting to me how vastly different are the views LX and I have regarding PBs.
Be well, people of CoH.
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And yet, I completely agree with you that PB damage should be brought up, although we differ in how we'd prefer this to be implemented...
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
It's interesting to me how vastly different are the views LX and I have regarding PBs.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Glowing Touch is pretty 'left field' considering how the AT works in actual play.
Its like the devs tried to shoehorn a healbot aspect into the AT because that was a popular playstyle in the olden days.
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The healbot mentality is a player-created problem, stop pinning it on the Devs.
Originally Posted by Star_Seer
Its like the devs tried to shoehorn a healbot aspect into the AT because that was a popular playstyle in the olden days.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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You mean like the shield secondary set.|
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
I would actually be against anything that turns either of the Kheldian sets away from their damage dealing roots into something more defendery. If it happens I will live, I'll simply not play the set, but I see no real flaws in either set that would require such a massive redesign on concept.
Several of the AT's have less played sets in them. We rarely buff them but when we do it's seldom of the sort to make them more or less "team friendly" we simply alter animation times, change damage ratios, or other weird number juggling. I have yet to see any damage set be changed to be more defendery with healing others or debuffing. |
Or electric armor's conserve power?
Or energy aura's drain?
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Originally Posted by LordXenite
Defenders and Controllers based on their power-sets and builds, lack the ability to lead teams...
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Originally Posted by LordXenite
You see, the only reason I'm good at doing what I do, is that I know that unlike a Tank, I cannot protect anyone by passively soaking damage. I need to cleverly use my knock-back, my Hold, my disorient, my fear powers from the Presence Pool to actively accomplish my goal of protecting the team, while a Tank gets to sit there and soak the damage, and taunt and use a passive AoE damage ticker to gain aggro.
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On topic, I like the suggestion of the PB melee attacks having a stacking -res component. As far as I know, there aren't any other melee attacks that apply -res, and I also think the -res shouldn't have a hard limit. The debuffs from Sonic Attack don't have a hard limit, for example, but they do expire over time.
Also, as far as modifying Glowing Touch, how about turning it into a buff along the lines of Forge, Fortitude or Painbringer? Help a teammate to "bring out the inner power"
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While it is true that any AT can lead a team, I maintain however, that Kheldians are uniquely suited for the job by-design based on their inherent power (gaining buffs from team mates) and their ability to switch forms and respond to combat situations as they evolve or even before they emerge, without having to rely on powers other than those already in their primary and secondary sets.
Originally Posted by Godpants
The roles of Khelds are varied, but "born leader" is not one of them. That depends on the player, and any AT can lead a team.
I actually meant that every attack of every form, ranged, melee and AoE, will have the -Res component.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godpants
On topic, I like the suggestion of the PB melee attacks having a stacking -res component. As far as I know, there aren't any other melee attacks that apply -res, and I also think the -res shouldn't have a hard limit. The debuffs from Sonic Attack don't have a hard limit, for example, but they do expire over time.
That could be a good idea as well I guess, but I feel much better with an AoE buff/heal on a slower recharge than a ST power on faster recharge.
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Originally Posted by Godpants
Also, as far as modifying Glowing Touch, how about turning it into a buff along the lines of Forge, Fortitude or Painbringer? Help a teammate to "bring out the inner power"
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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Sounds like the VEATs, too |
Originally Posted by LordXenite
While it is true that any AT can lead a team, I maintain however, that Kheldians are uniquely suited for the job by-design based on their inherent power [and their ability to] respond to combat situations as they evolve or even before they emerge, without having to rely on powers other than those already in their primary and secondary sets.
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| I actually meant that every attack of every form, ranged, melee and AoE, will have the -Res component. |
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| That could be a good idea as well I guess, but I feel much better with an AoE buff/heal on a slower recharge than a ST power on faster recharge. |
I like the idea of stacking -res added to Peacebringer attacks.
Debuffs are a good idea, not too sure about healing - healing is a full time role, I don't really see half-measure healing being that usefull.
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I suppose VEATs are teamleaders as well, but of a different sort, villainous as opposed to heroic.
Originally Posted by Godpants
Sounds like the VEATs, too
The question is all about balancing stuff. If the Devs ever decide to add a stackable -Res component to every PB attack, across all forms, I trust they'd balance things so that PB's don't out-do WS's and/or other AT's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godpants
I missed the part about all PB attacks having the -res component, but I still think it would be OK to allow it to stack without a hard cap. No debuff lasts forever, and some of them would expire during shapeshifting and other non-attack activities.
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Originally Posted by Godpants
Buffs > heals, in my opinion, and single-target powers tend to be stronger than their AoE counterparts. I believe it would be easier to target and maintain an ST buff as well - no more "Gather for AM," although that's a playstyle issue.
The idea guys isn't to turn PB's into healers, but merely ensure that a heal from a PB is both easy for the PB to fit into their combat-activities, and still meaningful for the player(s) receiving the heal.
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Originally Posted by Star_Seer
...Debuffs are a good idea, not too sure about healing - healing is a full time role, I don't really see half-measure healing being that usefull.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
In that case I would rather use Storm as a base than Empathy. Allow the human from shields to affect a team (like steamy mist) and extend the range on Glowing Touch - job done.
Because Warshades have the ability to cap so easily I think it would be fairer to increase Peacebringer damage in human form leaving form damage the same and increase the base resistance by 10% across all types.
Also lowering the recharge time of Photon Seekers to the same timer as Trip Mine woud be perfect for me because they are essentially a PBAoE mini-nuke since te pet AI is absolutely horrible with them. I would be happy if they changed them from pets to functioning just like Trip Mines that float but not seek.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)