Did you mean Restore Essence (the self heal) instead of Reform Essence (the Rez)? If so, sure - that big green glow should do something haha...
Also Aye to the -5% Res for attacks - should help close some of the Gap between PBs and WSs.
I'm Meh on the Pet. I just don't care for Pets as a concept. I pretend my Photon Seekers aren't pets but homing missiles (quite easy to do, actually, with the way they play).
Since 2/3 of these suggestions are designed to enhance teaming, I'd prefer the Inherents just give small buffs to the teammates along with the buffs they give the Kheld (some sort of cosmic symbiote thingy). Say, roughly half of what that AT gives the Kheld. Ex: A Tanker gives a PB 10% dmg boost, the Tanker also gets a 5% Damage boost. (Controllers could get a full mag to their powers).
Small buffs, but enough of a carrot to make Teams want Kheldians a bit more...
LX,
While I'm not sure how I feel about your suggestions specifically, I would like to see some changes made to the Peacebringer even if such changes made it a more team-oriented archetype.
After deleting a level 50 PB, a level 30 PB and probably several more that didn't make it to the teens, I would very much enjoy seeing Something done with PBs so that I could find them worthwhile.
Be well, people of CoH.
I would actually be against anything that turns either of the Kheldian sets away from their damage dealing roots into something more defendery. If it happens I will live, I'll simply not play the set, but I see no real flaws in either set that would require such a massive redesign on concept.
Several of the AT's have less played sets in them. We rarely buff them but when we do it's seldom of the sort to make them more or less "team friendly" we simply alter animation times, change damage ratios, or other weird number juggling. I have yet to see any damage set be changed to be more defendery with healing others or debuffing.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
First of all, thanks for the comments. Allow me to address them from last to first please:
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*sigh!*
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
I would actually be against anything that turns either of the Kheldian sets away from their damage dealing roots into something more defendery. If it happens I will live, I'll simply not play the set, but I see no real flaws in either set that would require such a massive redesign on concept.
That's the thing man, you're looking at Kheldians through a Scrapper-locked haze... there are other aspects to Kheldians out there and if there are not, then truly there's no friggin' point to actually making a Kheldian and we should all make Brutes and Fire/Kins! Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
Several of the AT's have less played sets in them. We rarely buff them but when we do it's seldom of the sort to make them more or less "team friendly" we simply alter animation times, change damage ratios, or other weird number juggling. I have yet to see any damage set be changed to be more defendery with healing others or debuffing.
I appreciate your opinions and the discussion, but I beg to differ with you on this suggestion at the very least because none of the items I've suggested actually contradict the Peacebringer mind-set. In all honesty, I think I've been true to the Peacebringer spirit in all three suggested items.
Allowing a Peacebringer to heal its team, buff them and debuff the enemy should not and will not distract the PB from its attack chains because the location-pet AoE buff can and should be cast before a fight, the heal can be executed whenever its needed either by the PB or the team and how can you object to debuffing the damage-resistance of the enemies around the PB, I simply cannot understand! 
To be honest, of the three proposed items, the one I like the most is the -Res debuff in the attacks. I would love to also be able to heal my team and buff them, sort of rewarding them in a more visible and immediate way for the team-buffs they give me whether they like it or not... Quote:
Originally Posted by BillZBubba
LX,
While I'm not sure how I feel about your suggestions specifically, I would like to see some changes made to the Peacebringer even if such changes made it a more team-oriented archetype.
Truthfully, if it wasn't for the Umbra Illuminati where my Lv50 PB usually plays main-tank, I think Ascendantia may have been deleted long ago, perhaps even before she reached Lv50.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillZBubba
After deleting a level 50 PB, a level 30 PB and probably several more that didn't make it to the teens, I would very much enjoy seeing Something done with PBs so that I could find them worthwhile.
LOL yes, I always confuse those two powers.. thanks for the quick catch! Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro
Did you mean Restore Essence (the self heal) instead of Reform Essence (the Rez)? If so, sure - that big green glow should do something haha...
And without toying with damage modifiers to boot Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro
Also Aye to the -5% Res for attacks - should help close some of the Gap between PBs and WSs.
Actually, I don't think of it as a Pet but rather like the Spirit Tree from Plant Control that buffs endurance recovery and defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro
I'm Meh on the Pet. I just don't care for Pets as a concept. I pretend my Photon Seekers aren't pets but homing missiles (quite easy to do, actually, with the way they play).
True. An interesting idea to be sure, but I was still trying to go for ideas that keep the PB on its toes trying to benefit the team by its proactive behavior rather than passively boosting stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socorro
Since 2/3 of these suggestions are designed to enhance teaming, I'd prefer the Inherents just give small buffs to the teammates along with the buffs they give the Kheld (some sort of cosmic symbiote thingy). Say, roughly half of what that AT gives the Kheld. Ex: A Tanker gives a PB 10% dmg boost, the Tanker also gets a 5% Damage boost. (Controllers could get a full mag to their powers).
Small buffs, but enough of a carrot to make Teams want Kheldians a bit more...
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
As seems to be the trend I agree with Obsidian. Both types of Kheldian have been several tools to allow them to have a degree of flexibility, but they are clearly damage oriented AT's.
Obsidian isn't trying to turn them into scrappers but he is trying to prevent them from becoming too watered down. If you give PB's even more defendery powers then they truly will turn into the 'weak defender' that people already see them as.
You need to add to the strengths of the AT not give them other powers to compensate.
I like the idea of -def addition to all the powers, but overall I think Warshades and PB's should both be DPS characters and it is a slight DPS boost PB's need, probably in the form of changing Photon Seekers to be less like Unchain Essence and more like Dark Extraction. Plus a few other tweaks here and there such as changing the KB to KD etc.
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British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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My opinion on the matter is that in a game where each and every character deals damage, only those characters that have the highest, and most constantly reliable damage output can and should be considered damage dealers. Each of us may have different definitions and playstyles but as long as our strongest attack chains as Kheldians are not as constant, or as reliable and contain less amount of damage than another AT (Scrappers for example) then I cannot allow myself to view Kheldians as damage-dealers first and foremost.
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
...Both types of Kheldian have been several tools to allow them to have a degree of flexibility, but they are clearly damage oriented AT's.
Most definitely not going to happen. If you carefully examine my suggestion, you will see that the suggestion to add an AoE Heal component to Reform Essence will not make a PB a better healer than Controllers get to be, and if a PB chooses to use Reform Essence during combat at least it will benefit other teammates than just him/herself. Even the AoE endurance-recovery/defense buff should not effect a PB's strategy since the idea is to deploy the buff before combat. Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Obsidian isn't trying to turn them into scrappers but he is trying to prevent them from becoming too watered down. If you give PB's even more defendery powers then they truly will turn into the 'weak defender' that people already see them as.
The moment the Devs put Glowing Touch into the PB power-sets, they already told us that a PB's job is to protect the team. Sometimes at all costs, if that's what the PB wants to do. I aim to augment that aspect of Peacebringing as it is quite neglected in the AT as far as I understand.
If as you say, people think of PB's as a "weak defender", then by all means, my suggestions will only serve to improve that publish opinion and eventually people will realize that there's more to a PB than a "weak defender" and a PB is actually quite a strong and capable Team Protector, if not its natural born Leader!
Funny you should say that because as far as I see, that's exactly what I've done. The -Res addition to each and every attack plays straight into augmenting PB's damage, but also augments the damage the whole team can do to an affected enemy. The addition of an AoE healing component to a power that already exists in the power-sets makes the PB a better healer to the team and the replacement of Glowing Touch with a locational-AoE buffing temporary pet enables the PB to strategically create a safer zone for the team that can be of use while the fight goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
You need to add to the strengths of the AT not give them other powers to compensate.
First of all, you're wrong. PB's already have a -Def in each and every attack, and what I suggest be added is -Res. This addition will bring up not only the PB's DPS, but also the team's DPS on affected mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I like the idea of -def addition to all the powers, but overall I think Warshades and PB's should both be DPS characters and it is a slight DPS boost PB's need, probably in the form of changing Photon Seekers to be less like Unchain Essence and more like Dark Extraction. Plus a few other tweaks here and there such as changing the KB to KD etc.
The only change I'd ever do for Photon Seekers will actually bring them closer to Unchain Essence and that is to include a -Disorient component which can stack with Pulsar, but lets not digress.
Changing KB to KD, I definitely will not object to, and here's hoping that will happen in the future.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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Going by that logic only a fire/fire blaster is a damage dealer, because other blasters do less damage than that?| only those characters that have the highest, and most constantly reliable damage output can and should be considered damage dealers |
What I mean is that most of a PB's powers are there to inflict some kind of damage, so that MUST be the main role. Not to mention that Nova form is a pure damage dealing form.
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| If you carefully examine my suggestion, you will see that the suggestion to add an AoE Heal component to Reform Essence will not make a PB a better healer than Controllers get to be, and if a PB chooses to use Reform Essence during combat at least it will benefit other teammates than just him/herself. Even the AoE endurance-recovery/defense buff should not effect a PB's strategy since the idea is to deploy the buff before combat. |
And I can't see PB's getting a buff power because neither Kheldian has anything similar to buff teammates.
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| The moment the Devs put Glowing Touch into the PB power-sets, they already told us that a PB's job is to protect the team. |
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| I aim to augment that aspect of Peacebringing as it is quite neglected in the AT as far as I understand. |
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| If as you say, people think of PB's as a "weak defender", then by all means, my suggestions will only serve to improve that publish opinion and eventually people will realize that there's more to a PB than a "weak defender" and a PB is actually quite a strong and capable Team Protector |
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| Funny you should say that because as far as I see, that's exactly what I've done. The -Res addition to each and every attack plays straight into augmenting PB's damage, but also augments the damage the whole team can do to an affected enemy. The addition of an AoE healing component to a power that already exists in the power-sets makes the PB a better healer to the team and the replacement of Glowing Touch with a locational-AoE buffing temporary pet enables the PB to strategically create a safer zone for the team that can be of use while the fight goes on. |
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| First of all, you're wrong. PB's already have a -Def in each and every attack, and what I suggest be added is -Res. This addition will bring up not only the PB's DPS, but also the team's DPS on affected mobs. |
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Blasters are damage dealers because they have a constant, and reliable high-DPS attack chains. Kheldians are not so much because to be as efficient in their damage-dealing, they have to utilize fragmented attacks chains which include minor control effects (disorient, debuffs) to be the most efficient they can. Nova form is not just damage-dealing, it's also constantly debuffing the enemies it hits.
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Going by that logic only a fire/fire blaster is a damage dealer, because other blasters do less damage than that?
What I mean is that most of a PB's powers are there to inflict some kind of damage, so that MUST be the main role. Not to mention that Nova form is a pure damage dealing form.
I do not judge the role of a character by just one aspect of it, but rather the consistency of how all the powers come together and contribute to the list of "tricks" the character can perform.
The list of "tricks" for a PB includes more than just damage and the damage that is there, for various reasons, falls behind some of the other AT's who in turn have a more focused and limited bag of "tricks".
PB's can do several things, they can heal a teammate, disorient enemies, knock them down or back, buff themselves and in dire straits become more survivable than they appear. So, I don't seek to turn PB's into a dedicated Healer, but I do seek to help the PB benefit the team with every action it takes.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
The point I was making was that unless you are going to turn it into a good heal then there is no point doing it, it will either need to be pretty spammable, or huge to be worthwhile. If it becomes spammable then you just changed the role of a PB, if it is huge then it might be a bit overpowered?
It seems to me that people think in extremes and forget that Kheldians are by definition supposed to be Jacks of All Trades with a bag of "tricks" that is more numerous than the other AT's get, but at the same time each "trick" is less potent. That's the design I wish to align myself with when contemplating PB augmentations.
I wouldn't call my suggestion, a "buff" power like a Defender can provide. It's meant to be minor and allow the PB to provide a meager amount of team-protection while the PB is busy doing other stuff like tanking or blasting or disorienting/holding the enemy. I do agree however that the likelyhood of getting that particular suggestion is probably the lowest of the three. Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
And I can't see PB's getting a buff power because neither Kheldian has anything similar to buff teammates.
Yes, I think it's my job to protect the team because of my bag of "tricks", and since they including off-tanking, minor debuffing, disorients, a Hold, and a Heal, and more HP and self-buff abilities than a normal "support" character has and sometimes more than some damage-dealers have, my precieved role is team-protection first and foremost, and DPS as a secondary trait.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Lol! They gave you one power that does a tiny heal and you think that means you have to protect the team? Blasters get a immob they don't think they are controllers.
The neglected aspect I speak of isn't so much the healing itself, for if that was my intention, I would have suggested a much stronger heal! Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
It is a neglected aspect of the AT but that is because the AT isn't meant to be a healer, you were given a heal to make you different to the Warshade while adding a tiny bit of utility. It is in no way a key feature, and since it is the only buff type power PB's have that just cannot be their role.
Woah!!!! Who the heck talked about using the Heal regularly? Where did you even see that at all?! Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
But the reason people think of them as weak defenders is because people who play them treat them as such, the minute you talk about taking the heal and using it regularly you are giving them that idea.
It's not "more heals", it's a better AoE heal on top of what already heals the PB itself. If a PB will spam Reform Essence just to heal its teammates and do nothing but that, then that PB will definitely deserve to be called a "weak defender" because unlike a true Defender, they cannot reliably and constantly buff their teammates or debuff their enemies, which is the true role of the Defender!Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
They can't usually tell where the damage comes from but when they see a PB healing them they think the PB is a healer, when the PB's heal isn't quite up to the job they think they are a wek healer. I would HATE it if the dev's thought giving more heals to PB's would be a clever idea.
Sheesh, I'm glad we agree on that... Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Well the idea of the -res is playing to the PB's strengths, and I think I fully support that.
Which is why I already said that I haven't suggested these items as an All-or-Nothing package deal. By the way, you're wrong when you say PB's have just one power that affects other teammates. Every power we have directly or indirectly affects our teammates. Each attack we do that knock-backs an enemy is affecting our teammates. Each time we debuff the defense of an enemy, as well as reducing its health, is affecting our teammates. Each time we see that another teammate is using an AoE disorient power and we rush in to perform Pulsar in perfect timing, is affecting the enemies and our teammates, buying them more safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
But the rest of it isn't. PB's have one power that effects other people in the team so adding more is not adding to a strength, it is propping up a weakness so it is no longer laughable.
I'm simply seeking to give PB's a better sword against the foes (the -Res suggestion) and a better shield to protect the team with (the AoE heal and minor pet-buffer thingie).
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I'd really like to see Group Energy Flight swapped out for something useful...not sure if that would be an AoE heal, or some sort of click buff (think Mind Link, but maybe it adds +Res).
I think the consensus among the CoH playerbase is that Group Flight of any kind might be a "neat" idea, but it's very situational, and the execution of the power is very poor.
I'm also a long time proponent of doing something with Photon Seekers. The "improved" version we have now still doesn't quite cut it...and the recharge time is far too high for this power. I'd be satisfied if they lowered the recharge...but there have been many other ideas of what to do with this power.
Light Form would be so much better with enhanced graphics...I mean, even the intense aura-like glow of Unstoppable would be better than what we have now. I don't like turning into my own personal Photon Seeker.
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While I agree that Group Energy Flight is very situational, I also recognize the need in an MMORPG for some powers to be there for the "immersion" factor rather than for mere utility alone. That's why I haven't considered touching it, just yet.
Originally Posted by SoilentGreen
I'd really like to see Group Energy Flight swapped out for something useful...not sure if that would be an AoE heal, or some sort of click buff (think Mind Link, but maybe it adds +Res).
I think the consensus among the CoH playerbase is that Group Flight of any kind might be a "neat" idea, but it's very situational, and the execution of the power is very poor.
Honestly, I love'em as they currently are, but if I were to suggest a change to them, it'd be to add +Disorient effect to each PS as it explodes so a PB can stack disorients on its enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoilentGreen
I'm also a long time proponent of doing something with Photon Seekers.
Agreed, but honestly, I've never used the power other than testing it in theoretical builds I haven't finished making and testing yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoilentGreen
Light Form would be so much better with enhanced graphics
Now, do you have any thoughts about the suggestion I actually listed in my original post?!
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Hmmm...
Don't like the idea of any location-based powers. The game moves too fast for things like this. Only AV fights tend to keep things in the same area. Maybe a moving buff pet like the vet pets, only not as flimsy.
The AoE heal is a good idea, but I wouldn't want to give up any self-heal effectiveness for that. I'd rather sacrifice other useless powers.
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I think an actual moving pet would be a touch too close to how Warshades are, but that definitely depends on the nature of the buffs given by the pet.
Originally Posted by SoilentGreen
Don't like the idea of any location-based powers. The game moves too fast for things like this. Only AV fights tend to keep things in the same area. Maybe a moving buff pet like the vet pets, only not as flimsy.
Oh no, the self-heal aspect of Reform Essence is preserved, and the AoE heal is simply an addition to the existing power, not a replacement of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoilentGreen
The AoE heal is a good idea, but I wouldn't want to give up any self-heal effectiveness for that. I'd rather sacrifice other useless powers.
What do you think though about the -Res addition to all the attack powers so that PB's could stack -Res effects on enemies?
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Crumbs I barely ever touch the Kheld section but they are my current projects in terms of build finalization.
What I first saw with Khelds was the Jack of All Trades AT, not meant to step on other ATs shoes but a great AT for anyone who has made 50 to play many different roles for those teams of new players, now 4 years on one can't think of people as new but ya still have a toon that can fill in for other ATs.
My Warshade is a bit like my Dervish on GW who is essentially all about AoE DPS..and then tanking, ghosting, blasting, maging, control.
But my PB had an identity crisis. Although is a better support toon than my WS...Tanking, Ghosting, Blasting, Spiking with Mezz Protection, Healing, Control and Grp Flight..
The PB is awesome enough. 
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I simply desire a bit more support-juice from Peacebringers.
Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
The PB is awesome enough.
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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-Res component to all attacks? I'd love that. I like the -Def in PvP, but it's pretty useless in PvE.
I think what makes the -Def seem useless in PvE is that fact that it actually works and does its job. I mean, you'd notice it if it were gone, wouldn't you?
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Probably not with all the accuracy bonuses I have 
That's what I'd think too, but then, I remember how complex these Hit/Miss calculation can be and it does help to have both +Accuracy;+ToHit but also maintain -DefDebuff on the enemy, not to mention, you may not notice it if the -DefDebuff was gone, but your teammates may!
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
I find it odd that pple would choose to roll a PB... a AT that is not meant to be all supportive of a team.. if nothing else it could be considered to be more of a leech. Since it does boost itself based on what other ATs are on the team. Now I love playing my 47 PB.... I don't think a defense based PB would be a good idea. PBs are meant to be "A Jack of all Trades" u want a AoE heal? Go roll a def, or make sure there is one one ur team. If anything should be tweaked.. I think PBs and WSs should deal even MORE damage than what they do now. In the comics the PB was shown as a POWERFUL being.. moreso than the human heroes.. but in the game... its not like that. I should be. A epic AT should be just that... EPIC... the most powerful of all the ATs. U want a healer.. make a damn def. PBs are meant to KICK ***.. NOT bandage ***.
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Things that should never be said on the Kheldian forum ...
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Originally Posted by OmniSurge
A epic AT should be just that... EPIC... the most powerful of all the ATs..
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Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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And I contend the second you start using Kheldian in the same sentence as support people begin slotting up that medicine pool. Taking slots away from what the natural bent of the AT IS, damage dealing. |
Originally Posted by LordXenite
I simply desire a bit more support-juice from Peacebringers. |
Nearly each and every power in both Kheldian set either produces damage, improves damage, allows us to personaly survive longer (to do more damage), or stun/hold/imobalize an enemy so we can do more damage, THIS is our role like it or not.
As much as you all contend I'm a warmonger with my DPS beliefs, your desire to turn Kheldians into some sort of weird defendery support AT is just as well documented.
Leave the support roles to the Controllers and Defenders please.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
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Why is the answer to buffing a given archetype in this game always MOAR DAMAGE? Kheldians have already gotten a buff in the damage department, and I'm fairly certain that calls for more will go unheeded.|
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Force2
And I contend the second you start using Kheldian in the same sentence as support people begin slotting up that medicine pool. Taking slots away from what the natural bent of the AT IS, damage dealing.
Nearly each and every power in both Kheldian set either produces damage, improves damage, allows us to personaly survive longer (to do more damage), or stun/hold/imobalize an enemy so we can do more damage, THIS is our role like it or not. As much as you all contend I'm a warmonger with my DPS beliefs, your desire to turn Kheldians into some sort of weird defendery support AT is just as well documented. Leave the support roles to the Controllers and Defenders please. |
Just what part of LX's suggestions takes away from your dps? The -res one actually improves your dps, so what's the problem with that?
With regard to the Reform Essence suggestion, making the self heal affect your teammates as well as you doesn't in and of itself turn PB's into imitation emps. In order for that to happen the recharge would have to be adjusted to be more in line with Healing Aura's. Since Lord Xenite didn't mention anything at all about changing the recharge, I don't think that spamming an aoe heal every thirty seconds (enhanced for recharge) is exactly what you would call rocking the aura.
I'll admit that the "healing aura component that works like the Empathy/Radiation AoE Heal" part threw me off a bit at first, too, but taken in context with what he said later - specifically:
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| Oh no, the self-heal aspect of Reform Essence is preserved, and the AoE heal is simply an addition to the existing power, not a replacement of it. |
In either case, with the recharge being what it is, I doubt anyone even notices they're being healed by the peacebringer if it happens - what? twice? - in a big battle. Yeah. that'll give everyone the impression that we're defender wannabes.
And who gives a squid if they replace glowing touch? Who takes that anyway? Throw me in the briarpatch of dropping a bright glowing cyst that emits recovery increasing rings ala CoT crystals. I do think it should affect the PB too, since the +def bonus really wouldn't affect us, but my point is that if you're replacing a support power with a support power really doesn't add or subtract from any so-called weak buffer role.
So if Xenite's suggestions give you more damage that your teammates also get, and lets your teammates share in the occasional heal, and completely changes one power that I suspect you skip now anyway, then it really doesn't affect your chosen playstyle of dps damage dealer at all, and I can only conclude that your rejection of them based on the rationale you've given is really a thinly masked call for MOAR DAMAGE.
@Omnisurge:
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| I find it odd that pple would choose to roll a PB... a AT that is not meant to be all supportive of a team.. if nothing else it could be considered to be more of a leech. Since it does boost itself based on what other ATs are on the team. Now I love playing my 47 PB.... I don't think a defense based PB would be a good idea. PBs are meant to be "A Jack of all Trades" u want a AoE heal? Go roll a def, or make sure there is one one ur team. If anything should be tweaked.. I think PBs and WSs should deal even MORE damage than what they do now. In the comics the PB was shown as a POWERFUL being.. moreso than the human heroes.. but in the game... its not like that. I should be. A epic AT should be just that... EPIC... the most powerful of all the ATs. U want a healer.. make a damn def. PBs are meant to KICK ***.. NOT bandage ***. |
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
There is no call for more damage, but there is also no call for any changes at all in my opinion.
The people who are asking for (some would say radical) changes are the ones unhappy with the AT as it is (a predominantly damage focused AT with a few minor other tricks)
So in return I could have just said "go roll a damn emp". Thats not how I feel so I did not. This however in no way means I have to agree to changes that would alter either the focus or the percieved focus of the AT, which is in case anyone missed it, damage.
If you PL'd to 50 just to get an "epic" thinking you'd be �ber, you're going to be sorely disappointed with the HEATs, because the VEATs were designed so that anyone with one good finger and a braincell can rock the toggles.
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There have been very few sensible cries for +damage, aside from the fool/troll wanting Kheldians to be epic in power.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Why is the answer to buffing a given archetype in this game always MOAR DAMAGE? Kheldians have already gotten a buff in the damage department, and I'm fairly certain that calls for more will go unheeded.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Just what part of LX's suggestions takes away from your dps? The -res one actually improves your dps, so what's the problem with that?
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
With regard to the Reform Essence suggestion, making the self heal affect your teammates as well as you doesn't in and of itself turn PB's into imitation emps. In order for that to happen the recharge would have to be adjusted to be more in line with Healing Aura's. Since Lord Xenite didn't mention anything at all about changing the recharge, I don't think that spamming an aoe heal every thirty seconds (enhanced for recharge) is exactly what you would call rocking the aura.
I'll admit that the "healing aura component that works like the Empathy/Radiation AoE Heal" part threw me off a bit at first, too, but taken in context with what he said later - specifically: leads me to believe that adding an aoe component and preserving everything else - including the recharge - is all he's suggesting. Xenite, maybe you can clarify that part a little better? In either case, with the recharge being what it is, I doubt anyone even notices they're being healed by the peacebringer if it happens - what? twice? - in a big battle. Yeah. that'll give everyone the impression that we're defender wannabes. |
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
And who gives a squid if they replace glowing touch? Who takes that anyway? Throw me in the briarpatch of dropping a bright glowing cyst that emits recovery increasing rings ala CoT crystals. I do think it should affect the PB too, since the +def bonus really wouldn't affect us, but my point is that if you're replacing a support power with a support power really doesn't add or subtract from any so-called weak buffer role.
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Utility is all well and good but PB's only have one power which directly affects a team mate so it is clearly not what the devs wanted PB's to be concentrating on.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Shut up and go roll a damned scrapper if you want moar damage. The disparaging and condescending tone certainly isn't welcome here. You want to disagree, fine. But before you all but call Xenite a noob you might want to team with him a couple times. You might just find out that whether he's on his lv 50 Warshade or his lv 50 Peacebringer that the man flat-out knows his stuff. He doesn't need moar damage because he kicks *** without it. And if you think a lack of damage is what's standing in the way of your kheld being POWERFUL then maybe you need to look at your playstyle too.
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Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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After a recent discussion about Peacebringers and their "role" on a team, I've decided to revive one of my old ideas for focusing and improving the toolbox a Peacebringer has when teaming.
- Remodel Reform Essence so that it has a healing aura component that works like the Empathy/Radiation AoE Heal, thus leaving Restore Essence to heal the PB by a large amount of HP and the team around it by a modest amount of HP.
- Add a self-stacking -5% Res effect to each PB attack power, across all forms, but with a ceiling of -15% Res. If the PB uses Chance for -Res in their slotting, that effect will stack on top of the normal -Res so essentially PB's could reach -35% Res in some cases.
- Replace Glowing Touch with a location-based pet that buffs endurance recovery and overall defense for everyone around it but the PB itself. The buffs are minor and cannot be enhanced but the pet itself cannot be attacked and is on a long cool-down that can be brought down with -Recharge slotting.
Considering that Warshades have the edge on PB's in the DPS department, but it is still quite difficult for a PB to compete as a Tanker/Healer AT, I'll gladly take any one — or all, pretty please? — of the proposed changes in a heartbeat!How'bout you guys? What do you think?
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati