Hmmm
Ok, let's take a step back here. Do Defenders have tools that help them increase their damage? Yes, BUT, not ALL of them. And some defender builds do this better than others.
Cold Dom: Two powers that give -def, and one that offer -res. Two of these are AoEs.
Dark: one AoE - res, and a pet.
Empathy: Nothing (you can cast fortitude on a pet, though... if you're a controller!)
Force Field: Nothing.
Kinetics: Siphon Power, Siphon speed (indirectly), Fulcrum shift (Note: FS for controllers currently gives Defender numbers)
Rad: Foe -Def, Self +Recharge/damage, - 2 res AoEs, and some - regen powers which really only factor against AVs.
Sonic: ST -res, a -res that you need to cast on a pet or teammate, AoE -Def
Storm: one AoE -Def/Res, two psuedo-pets that do extra damage for you.
TA: 3 AoEs; one does - res, one does - def, and the other does -res AND -def.
So overall, it looks pretty good for defenders, right?
Wrong.
Assuming you get an average of 40% -res, you still have pitifully weak attacks. Check this out: Power Bolt (along with many other tier 1s) does 36.1 damage for a defender (at level 50... three other sets have T1s which do less damage than this). With a -40% res debuff, that number becomes 50.54... which is still less than the Blaster number for the same attack (62.6). AND you have to land your debuffs first just to get that number!
Incidentally, the first 2 controller powers in any primary do between 24 and 40 damage (average of 30), WITHOUT any outside buffs. Add containment, that's 48-80. Add the EXACT SAME debuffs that defenders have, (but at a slightly lesser value), and we start reaching triple digits.
Let's look at secondaries.
Rad Blast lowers defense, which adds to your damage over time, but you don't get any immediate + damage benefit (unless you happen to make an attack roll that WOULD have missed if the foe were not debuffed... of course, only way to test that is to watch one's combat log like a hawk and such tests would not be reproducible thanks to the nature of the RNG). Sonic blast has 4 or 5 -res powers, which can stack up to a pretty decent - resist numbers IF you chain the same 4 attacks over and over in the right order.
Each set has a token "Aim" power... which isn't all it's cracked up to be. Arcanavile recently crunched some numbers saying that ones Damage over time actually DROPS by using such powers because essentially, that's 2 or so seconds that you're not attacking. If one stops to use Aim every time it's up instead of attacking, it really becomes detrimental.
But that's IT.
I mean, if you roll a Kin/Sonic, you can debuff a foe by 80% Res and reach the damage cap if you got plenty of minions around. And since Sonic has an AoE sleep, it would be very easy to do this. I would call this an OUTLIER as opposed to the AVERAGE.
And Emp/Archery? Not so much. FF/Dark? Well, you'll be very safe but you won't be doing that much damage. Any other combo not listed will do some debuffing and get some solo benefit, but not as much as a Controller.
Why?
Because Controllers can BUFF their PETS (Except Mind, but it has some of the best direct control options, allowing for total safety AND some extra speed while soloing). Any AoE Self buffs (like FS or AM), Fortitude, Sonic Dispersion, Leadership buffs... it goes on.
Yeah, 'Fenders need some help overall, I'd say.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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If you think defenders do massive amounts of ranged damage, you really haven't played a blaster.|
Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet
A defender can do all those except melee and melee isn't even on the list of concerns for a defender.
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Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
Umm... that's what I did.
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I also think you could rank the ATs in terms of number of them being played and then list which ones are most team dependent and find that both those list come across as virtually the same.
Umm... Amy?
Is your sig-graphic some kind of masochistic verbal pun? I mean, if you say the title out loud keeping in mind you're talking about a regenerating person who keeps sticking their claws into dangerous situations, it's really kinda... painful sounding.
Just sayin'.
Robin
--If we can have huge sig images, why can we have only five lines of text?
--...faceplanting like a Defender pulling an AV (Nalrok_AthZim)
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...
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There are several things that you have to look at in regards to Defenders.|
Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
This proves to me beyond a reasonable doubt that the population can "feel" that there is something "wrong" with defenders, and that they should in fact be looked at seriously.
I yield and surrender this point. And I publicly apologize for any personal attacks to Turbo_Ski that I may have made in my fanatical "belief", which was and is an accurate statement. |
One of them is the fact that Defenders really are a support class AT when it comes down to it.
Many players don't want to be support for other players, they want to be the ones doing things.
The fact is that may players don't even want to be supported by a support class AT of any kind. You can see that that is quite prevelant in the postings in the Tanker forums. They don't say that they don't need other players, but, if you look at the things that they want, they usually have to do with powers that other ATs could bring to a team that they think that the Tank AT is lacking.
Defenders are very powerful on full teams. They are still fairly powerful on small teams. When they are alone, most of the Defender power sets just don't hold up and the inherent does nothing for them. Their powers are great for helping others but many times those powers can not be used to help themselves.
All the other inherents -- except for the PB and WS (which are epics) -- do something to help the character even if they aren't on a team. (Tankers will argue that Gauntlet doesn't help them when they are not on a team, but the -Range makes enemies close into their melee range which does help them).
It can be very thankless to be a Defender on a large team where their powers are the most powerful (the more chars on a team, the more chars that can benefit from the Defenders heals/buffs/debuffs). Most defender power sets have you running shepherd over a flock of rampaging wolves. And the wolves, for the most part, don't care what happens to you.
On the fun scale, for most people being a Defender is just too much work.
Sure, Controllers can be a support class as well, but that depends on the Controllers build.
If you flip a defender and try to make them an "attack" build, it simply does not work with most power sets (storm Defenders are great "tankers".)
I'm currently working one of my defenders up to 50 on Triumph. I'm up to 49 now. He will be my first 50 defender. He's one of the first 22 characters that I made the first 4-7 days that I played CoH way back when (some 60 months ago according to my vet badges).
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Wait. What do you mean by "scales" here? Are you talking about the attributes of the power itself, damage scale for instance, or are you talking about the AT modifiers? Because if you mean the former, then in general Powers do NOT have different scales. There are exceptions from set to set, usually when you deal with special cases, like porting a Melee attack to a Blaster Manipulation or Dominator Assault set, but for the most part the same power in a different set has exactly the same base scale values. |
Originally Posted by Luminara
And it is part and parcel of AT balance. That is why different ATs have different scales on the same powers. And those different scales do affect how similar ATs are balanced against one another.
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If on the other hand you mean the ATs have different damage scales, that's one of the things that make the ATs consistent across powers. If Power Blast does 173% of the damage to a Blaster than it does to a Defender, then Power Burst is also going to do 173% of the damage to a Blaster than it does to a Defender. And again, this gets back to the fact that the powers all have the same base scalar. The ONLY difference between a Blaster and a Defender blast is that the Blaster has much more damage going INTO it. But the attack itself isn't made weaker on a Defender because the Defender is "weak".
This is really what makes balancing possible, or should make it possible anyway. The balance between AT's is set by their modifiers. The balance between Powers is set by their base scales. The two don't have anything to do with each other. If two Powers are in balance for one AT, they SHOULD be in balance for another AT. (The only exception is when an AT's attributes, such as its Inherent, causes such an imbalance. Such as Masterminds being able to duck behind Personal Force Field and yet still be able to attack via their pets)
The problem with comparing Defenders to Controllers is not that they have similar Powers, it's that the powers they deal damage with are extremely dissimilar. This means it is easy to quantify the comparison between a Defender and a Controllers' buffs, but it is not easy to quantify the comparison between their damage.
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-Range is a function of the power 'Taunt' for tanks and brutes, as well as 'confront' for scrappers.|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
(Tankers will argue that Gauntlet doesn't help them when they are not on a team, but the -Range makes enemies close into their melee range which does help them).
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It is completely separate from gauntlet.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Minor nitpick: /Sonic has 6 attacks that each debuff by -20% |
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
I mean, if you roll a Kin/Sonic, you can debuff a foe by 80% Res and reach the damage cap if you got plenty of minions around. And since Sonic has an AoE sleep, it would be very easy to do this. I would call this an OUTLIER as opposed to the AVERAGE. |
Screech
Scream
Shout
Howl
Shriek
Dreadful Wail (okay situational)
but still I find I can get -100% easily. Which only goes on to support your argument anyway...
Defiant EU
Quaver: Kinetics/Sonic Defender
Semiquaver: Sonic/Kinetics Corruptor
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Eh? In what way can you build a Controller that CANNOT support a team? Outside of giving him all attacks from the Power Pool, that is. (And I've done that, so I should know)|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
Sure, Controllers can be a support class as well, but that depends on the Controllers build.
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Even if you don't "flip" the Controller build and concentrate on holds, how does that NOT support a team?
To my mind here, the problem is that Defenders are seen as "too good" at what they do best. And this is not as much a perception of the players, as a penalty imposed by the devs. The devs have already said that they are concerned about the ability of force multipliers to stack together in large teams to do game breaking things. While Controllers, Corruptors and Masterminds are inarguably force multipliers as well, the fact is they are not AS GOOD at it as Defenders.
To a large extent, the problem is the performance of defense as you get close to the various caps. More damage is always needed, better chance to hit, healing, status protection and so on, but only defense (Def and Res) get exponentially better as they decrease. 45% Defense is twice as good as 40% Defense. So if a Defender can get that extra 5% easier, then the Defender is seen as having an advantage.
The problem is that this penalty isn't being applied equally. Only Defenders are assumed to deserve this damage penalty for being a "support class". Controllers, Corruptors, and Masterminds are not. And all penalizing Defenders does is ensure that the force multiplier teams that do get assembled are all Controllers, Corruptors, and Masterminds instead. It doesn't solve the problem, and doesn't really reduce how game breaking it is, either.
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Scrappers are delicate? |
Originally Posted by CoyoteShaman
Umm... Amy?
Is your sig-graphic some kind of masochistic verbal pun? I mean, if you say the title out loud keeping in mind you're talking about a regenerating person who keeps sticking their claws into dangerous situations, it's really kinda... painful sounding. Just sayin'. Robin |
The whole concept was finding a scrapper that could in theory go from point A to point B the fastest.* The original name was a play on "Rebel Without a Cause," but shortened down to fit as a name. /regen allows for the "without pausing" type of playstyle. Also see my love affair with Kins speedy nature.* Enough of the game has changed to where it's not the fastest, but it's fun enough for me.
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I look at defenders more as force multipliers and controllers as team support. Both of them have various amount of the other in them, but generally speaking controllers are the best team support AT and defenders have the best buffs and debuffs worth stacking.
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
One of them is the fact that Defenders really are a support class AT when it comes down to it.
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One suggestion I would have for the Defender Inherent is to give EVERY Secondary attack a -10% Res debuff. Then up Sonic's to -30%. Sonic would still be the best at damage, but at least the other sets would have some of Sonic's usefulness. |
Originally Posted by Quaver
Minor nitpick: /Sonic has 6 attacks that each debuff by -20%
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Heck, do the same for Corruptors. It matches their concept, they help the whole team do more damage, and it wouldn't be the same as a straight damage buff, as it has to build up over time. Like a weaker form of Scourge.
Controllers and defenders are the archetypes that have support power sets. If a player wants to play team support, he/she will either pick a controller or a defender. I think it is natural that a player will tend to pick a better or more useful archetype. And your statistics show that controller is a more popular choice compared to defender. I would have concluded that controllers are better, conceived to be better, or more fun to play than defenders. I don't think there is sufficient information to say whether it is the defenders that are underpowered, or the controllers that are overpowered from your collected statistics.
I don't really think that controllers as a whole are overpowered. And it is never popular to nerf. Maybe defenders can be improved a little such that their support can be more outstanding compared to other archetypes.
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Sorry but defender's sonic blast doesn't need a buff in it's debuff value, if anything it needs a reduction since it is clearly overpowered compared its alternatives (other defender blasts). Also going and applying a -res debuff to every blast power is a development time-sink compared to just raising the AT damage modifier.
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Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
One suggestion I would have for the Defender Inherent is to give EVERY Secondary attack a -10% Res debuff. Then up Sonic's to -30%. Sonic would still be the best at damage, but at least the other sets would have some of Sonic's usefulness.
Heck, do the same for Corruptors. It matches their concept, they help the whole team do more damage, and it wouldn't be the same as a straight damage buff, as it has to build up over time. Like a weaker form of Scourge. |
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Logic error. It is overpowered because it buffs damage. Other secondary effects that blasts apply are in the same relative ratios. It is the EFFECT that is more useful, not the magnitude of that effect. |
Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Sorry but defender's sonic blast doesn't need a buff in it's debuff value, if anything it needs a reduction since it is clearly overpowered compared its alternatives (other defender blasts).
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Granted, Sonic Attack does apply the same -20% debuff for all attacks, when precedent is that the basic attacks should apply like a -10% debuff, and -15% for those about midlevel in strength. And I have said in the past that I think it's crazy for a Defender Secondary to apply more debuff than its equivalent Primary. Radiation Blast applies a -12.5% to -37.5% Defense debuff, however, and Radiation Infection is -31.25%, so the numbers are at least in proportion.
If you like, though, you can apply another effect to Sonic Attack in place of another -10% Res. Perhaps -12.5% Def.
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| Also going and applying a -res debuff to every blast power is a development time-sink compared to just raising the AT damage modifier. |
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Add in 10% -res debuff as just being way too high. You could take two defenders and they would be easily putting out 40-60% AoE -res debuff and that's just from their blasts. Something like that would point, laugh, and mock Scourge. It's simply not happening based on how much better -res is compared to +dmg and it's not even limited to the defender themselves, but the whole team gets to benefit from it as well. Defenders don't have issues getting on teams. Defenders have issues with soloing speed. This idea would help that, but it's far too broken on a team level.
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Sorry but defender's sonic blast doesn't need a buff in it's debuff value, if anything it needs a reduction since it is clearly overpowered compared its alternatives (other defender blasts). Also going and applying a -res debuff to every blast power is a development time-sink compared to just raising the AT damage modifier.
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Oop, forgot the stun had a -res value to it, too. My bad!
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Originally Posted by Quaver
Minor nitpick: /Sonic has 6 attacks that each debuff by -20%
Screech Scream Shout Howl Shriek Dreadful Wail (okay situational) but still I find I can get -100% easily. Which only goes on to support your argument anyway... |
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Defenders don't really need more team support; their problem is that they're so awesome on teams they can't catch a break any other time. I'm going to suggest the same thing I suggested for Tankers, which have roughly the same problem: Inherent +50% damage, -7% per teammate within 80 feet. At full damage enhancement, that's about the same as a +25% increase to AT mod, or 0.8125 for ranged. Unlike an AT mod increase, it can't be exploited by Kineticists (who just hit the damage cap sooner). There's an issue with -res, but fiddling with the numbers might be able to fix that. And yes, it'd mean that Defenders lose personal DPS by bringing on teammates, but then if you're selfish enough to care about that what are you playing a Defender for?
Cue the deafening silence.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Are you proposing this as a new inherent?
Yes, I'm proposing it as a new inherent.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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It's this. And this is not new. This is the same hybrid-vs-pure debate that's been going on in MMOs since the very first one twelve years ago, going on in pen and paper games even before that. It even afflicts WoW: why play a priest when a paladin can outheal you and wear plate while doing it? And so on, and so on, with every MMO there's ever been. How much do you penalize hybrids before hybrids stop being fun, and how much do you buff them back into the realm of fun before there's no point playing a pure?|
Originally Posted by CoyoteShaman
Tankers compete by being the best tanks. Scrappers compete by being the best scraps. Defenders should compete by being the best defenders. Right now the degree to which we are the better defenders is not a sufficient competitive advantage so other ATs are winning out the war of attrition.
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Whether or not their weaknesses are numerically accurate or merely popularly perceived, the OP's numbers show it has a real, tangible, measurable effect, one that developers should and do notice and amend. Tiresome pedantic grandstanding to "prove it" is tiresome and pedantic. People think they suck and don't play them. Just flipping fix it.
Sometimes I really can't fathom why people adopt the "defenders are fine, l2p" attitude. Do they want to keep the class underplayed so they can feel special? Is it denial about one's favorite archetype's weaknesses? Inability to recall that not all defenders are rad/sonic? Fear that others will stop inviting defenders to groups? Don't know. Do know that it's really nice to see big names in the community speaking up and maybe getting the 'fenders the attention we deserve, instead of trying to keep it hidden under a wash of misleading statistics.
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I apologize for making it appear as though I were belittling your effort. It's more than anyone else has done.|
Originally Posted by PhiloticKnight
By the way, Lumi, I personally object to your tossing of my collected data samples as "5 minutes" of effort. That took me a good half hour to an hour at least.
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I am compelled, however, to note once more that despite the work you put into it, it's not accurate because you don't have access to a method of seeing hidden characters, or characters which are actively played but not logged in at the time of your survey. I mean, what does it prove, that defenders are less popular, or that more defenders use /hide than any other AT, or that defenders are played more frequently by players who aren't on at peak times? It could be any of those, it could be something else entirely, or it could be an actual, real representation of a sharp decline in defender creation and play time since the last time the developers posted the results of data mining. In the end, only they can see whatever trends exist, if any.
And even if it were accurate, it wouldn't be sufficient to call for buffs, nerfs or changes of any sort without much more detailed examinations of the cause of the decline. If it were found that defenders were being played less, then the data mining would indicate which AT was being played more (something a 30 minute snapshot can't tell you). Then one would need to examine why the other AT or ATs were being played more. Could it be, for example, that the AE has caused a shift away from defenders, toward something else, or is it instead a result of some change to another AT which has made it more accessible and therefore capturing the interest of players for a while, or might it instead be caused by I15's new content, or perhaps it's possible that the farming phenomenon has grown to such a degree that players are creating tried and true "farm friendly" characters (which would, in turn, indicate that IO recipes may be the source of a shift)... it could be any of a hundred things, but the only real way to find out exactly what might turn players away from one AT and toward another would be much more data mining, with more powerful tools (meaning, capable of seeing even hidden characters and monitoring at all times) over a long period of time, something only the developers can do.
You did try to provide some evidence, though, which I applaud. As I said, it's more than anyone else in this thread has done.
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Which is precisely why a unilateral buff won't be very likely. The diversity of defenders is both the greatest strength of the AT and the greatest weakness of the AT.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Hmmm
Ok, let's take a step back here. Do Defenders have tools that help them increase their damage? Yes, BUT, not ALL of them. And some defender builds do this better than others. |
It's really easy to say "FF/Elec isn't a damage powerhouse, buff defenders", but it's not so easy to apply the same logic to, say, Kin/Sonic.
Players look at the "worst" and work from there. Developers look at the "worst", average and "best" and work from there, and have to consider the possibility that issuing a general buff to defender damage would result in the "best" suddenly outperforming blasters in damage output and tanks in survivability. They can't do that. They won't do that.
Also, all defender primaries can be paired with secondaries containing one or more damage improvement tools, and with the Dark Mastery APP which offers Soul Drain. Those choices are available and they do affect the way the developers look at the performance of the primaries, even if players are prone to saying, "It didn't fit my concept to take those powers". The whole package is what is examined, not the primaries in a vacuum. No buffs can be made with only the primaries in mind because the addition of the secondaries and APPs changes the final result.
It has been noted that controllers aren't really as incredible as they're made out to be until 41+, when they have access to actual attacks to supplement their low damage controls and pets and have acquired and slotted all of their secondary powers well, but that point tends to be glossed over when defender players are clamoring for buffs. The developers don't forget that, though, and neither should anyone else. Everything a defender can access and which offers potential improvement to damage output and/or survivability matters (even pool powers, temp powers and inspirations, but one can generally disregard those and focus on the primary, secondary and APP because the other tools provide a relatively equal level of performance improvement for defenders and controllers).
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AT mods. Sorry, didn't have time to proofread and clarify.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
Wait. What do you mean by "scales" here?
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If on the other hand you mean the ATs have different damage scales, that's one of the things that make the ATs consistent across powers. If Power Blast does 173% of the damage to a Blaster than it does to a Defender, then Power Burst is also going to do 173% of the damage to a Blaster than it does to a Defender. And again, this gets back to the fact that the powers all have the same base scalar. The ONLY difference between a Blaster and a Defender blast is that the Blaster has much more damage going INTO it. But the attack itself isn't made weaker on a Defender because the Defender is "weak". This is really what makes balancing possible, or should make it possible anyway. The balance between AT's is set by their modifiers. |
Defenders don't follow that kind of design rule, though. Within the defender AT, there are many completely different approaches to the game, all valid while being distinct and unique. An FF/* is a master at providing team security, while a Dark/* is a master at providing control, and a TA/* is a master at improving team damage output, and an Emp/* is a master at buffing individual teammates to tankmage status... every primary offers a different approach, and every secondary offers yet another approach. No two defender combinations are quite like each other, despite both being defenders. You don't see that with, say, blasters, because regardless of primary or secondary, blasters generally do one thing, they deal damage. The same is true of scrappers and tanks. These ATs don't have the incredible variety of tools that are available to the defender AT, so the main differences within those ATs are more easily balanced against each other and the ATs themselves more easily balanced against the other ATs.
It's that diversity of tools within the defender AT that makes something as simple as a modifier increase a poor solution to any problem. An AT mod change doesn't, can't account for all of the myriad differences between builds.
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| The balance between Powers is set by their base scales. The two don't have anything to do with each other. If two Powers are in balance for one AT, they SHOULD be in balance for another AT. (The only exception is when an AT's attributes, such as its Inherent, causes such an imbalance. Such as Masterminds being able to duck behind Personal Force Field and yet still be able to attack via their pets) |
All of the other ATs are part of the game. The defender and controller ATs themselves are part of the metagame, because they can alter the results of the AT modifiers significantly.
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| The problem with comparing Defenders to Controllers is not that they have similar Powers, it's that the powers they deal damage with are extremely dissimilar. This means it is easy to quantify the comparison between a Defender and a Controllers' buffs, but it is not easy to quantify the comparison between their damage. |
Oh wow, Jeffrey Combs is on Cold Case. I have to watch this! O_O
*bounce bounce bounce*
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I know you are generalizing and talking to more than just me, but I want to be clear: I think defenders are fun and powerful as is. |
Originally Posted by Luminara
So when you go to him and say, "It doesn't feel like my defender is as powerful as my controller", and give him nothing more than that vague opinion, what do you honestly expect him to do? Do you really think he's going to drop everything and go on a three month spree of brainstorming improvements for defenders, improvements which wouldn't be detrimental to the game, the AT or the balance between ATs?
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I think you are overrating the impact an analysis of defender vs controller vs corruptor power levels would have on Castle for several reasons. First, I think a paper analysis of how these sets play and interact with the game environment is far too unreliable because of how they actually play out in game and I think Castle would feel the same way. Second, I think a paper analysis would show defenders to be at least on par and in several cases even well ahead. Frankly, its not productive to my cause to do a paper analysis since I believe defenders are freaking awesome. Third, I believe a paper analysis might be a good way to show that Empathy needs a buff in relation to Rad (which I do not believe, but am using just as an example), but is a terrible way to demonstrate that defenders need a buff in relation to controllers. Finally, I do not believe I am saying that defenders need a buff in relation to or because of (insert other AT here). I think defenders need a buff because of the content they face and because the types of things they do on teams should be perceived in a better light than I believe they are.
I guess I could do a paper analysis showing what a defender needs to do to complete a solo mission and claim that it is too "difficult" (slow, mostly). However, I am much more concerned with how the blasts are percieved and utilized (or, as I believe, underutilized) on teams. Once again, I think a paper analysis might just show that defender blasts are, in many cases, very productive and useful to teams, so that would probably be counter-productive once again.
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Originally Posted by Luminara
Think about it. Seriously. If you want to make a point and show him that a problem really exists, you need to prove it with more than complaints and a five minute server population survey conducted with the /search tool (which excludes players using /hide or not currently logged in), rather than expecting him to clear his schedule and desk to placate a handful of players who insist that an entire AT should be buffed.
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I like defenders a lot. When I start forming a team, they are usually my go-to, first choice. As such, I see defender population quite frequently. When all the defenders available are teamed, I'll move to tankers and then controllers (I will freely admit to a bias against controllers, which is why they are my damage mitigation choice of last resort). I make a lot of tanker players happy, I am sure, but thats just because I can't get a defender more often than I like.
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Originally Posted by Luminara
Doing the work beforehand saves him time and gives him a much, much clearer understanding of where you think the problem lies, and gives him an idea of how to proceed. It cuts the amount of work he has to do by half or more.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
This all started off as just a long winded apology.
What kind of monster have I risen from the depths of Hades???
By the way, Lumi, I personally object to your tossing of my collected data samples as "5 minutes" of effort. That took me a good half hour to an hour at least.