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I'm not always right . . . I'm just never wrong |
Originally Posted by Myrmydon
Right as always, Jester.
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Originally Posted by StrayKitten
*sigh* May as well say it now.
 I wish I could understand where you're coming from, I really do, but unfortunately I don't know how someone not having the same powers you would take from the set would cause them to 'not contribute.' I'm sorry, but until you can find a statement somewhere in the documentation that says "You must take this power in order to play the AT as it was intended in its design," then I'm afraid that you're being incredibly presumptuous in your statements. EDIT: Also, you apparently didn't read my original post. I was looking for a way to say the same thing recently, not necessarily in response to your post. But since you felt that you needed to respond to me, I felt it was worthwhile to point out that I feel that you are wrong. |
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
My pet peeve is stupid people. if I deem u an individual that is unworthy of my greatness while teamed. I will politely finish the mission with ur dumba$$ and then politely excuse myself from that team/person and do me. There's so much in this game we can do that we don't have to cater to anyone's stupidity. Now, back to me learning the way of the villain. As long as i've been playing this game i only have 1 50 vill and only 1 more over lvl 40. team my lowbie villains tricks...OR ELSE!!!
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Originally Posted by BlackAmaranth
What I have a problem with is the way you literally attack anyone who doesn't play "your way" You berated me for half-an-hour over what my build was supposed to be. 30 god-awful minutes. This was AFTER I told you I wasn't interested in your opinions. THAT ruined MY enjoyment of the game. And that is wrong. Anyone with common sense can see that.
You can go your own way, and do what you want. But, If i see you spewing forth that judgmental B.S. and basically putting down other people for playing they way they want to play, you can be damned sure I'm going to speak up. You annoyed me to no end for one night. But your annoyance made the game less enjoyable for me for weeks after that. I don't want others to have to suffer one minute of annoyance because you are judgmental and have no idea of free rights and tolerance. You don't want me to leave your posts alone? All you have to do is stop attacking other people's playstyle. And you'll never hear from me again. |
You know, I remember that conversation going something like:
Me - "Why don't you have the toggles?"
BA - "A bunch of crap that amounted to him not being able to play with them."
Me - "But they are the cornerstone of the set."
BA - "More crap."
Me - "Speechless."
BA - Typing yet more crap and logging out.
When I was asked if I wanted to join the team next week, I declined, with a comment of not carrying anyone. Now, if that is your idea of "harassment", well ok, guilty as charged.
If we didn't have people dying while fighting AVs, I would never have asked, however, not seeing the Rad toggles on an AV did give me pause. That was a longtime ago and I think the last time I gave anyone real hell over a build was a Tank that kept getting a PuG that Si and I joined team-wiped. PuGing as often as I do nowadays, I have learned that as long as a player is at least competent, their build doesn't matter so much. Its still a pet peeve though, which was the entire point of this thread, I believe, before BA and I derailed it. Now, to be fair, I have spent the past couple of weeks running with a friend's Elec/Shields who decided to take the mez click at 22. The best part was, while he was duoing with a Stalker, the Stalker gave him some hell about not having it, which made us laugh.
I also remember the Legendaries' genius (which it was ) idea of running petless masterminds and blasters with rifle options and secondary restrictions as a static team on another server. While I really wanted to participate in that, I never found a combo I liked so I declined.See, despite my pet peeve, I still have abit of tolerance for it.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Wow. I'm never seen such a large pack of lies in one paragraph.|
Originally Posted by Myrmydon
You know, I remember that conversation going something like:
Me - "Why don't you have the toggles?" BA - "A bunch of crap that amounted to him not being able to play with them." Me - "But they are the cornerstone of the set." BA - "More crap." Me - "Speechless." BA - Typing yet more crap and logging out. When I was asked if I wanted to join the team next week, I declined, with a comment of not carrying anyone. Now, if that is your idea of "harassment", well ok, guilty as charged. If we didn't have people dying while fighting AVs, I would never have asked, however, not seeing the Rad toggles on an AV did give me pause. That was a longtime ago and I think the last time I gave anyone real hell over a build was a Tank that kept getting a PuG that Si and I joined team-wiped. PuGing as often as I do nowadays, I have learned that as long as a player is at least competent, their build doesn't matter so much. Its still a pet peeve though, which was the entire point of this thread, I believe, before BA and I derailed it. |
I never used the term harassment. I never logged out. (We actually re-grouped and played for another hour after getting Myr off the team. Although the rest of the night was tedious for me, I agreed to play for the team.) And we hadn't faced any AVs that night. And I do, in fact, have Myr on ignore in game. I have never spoken to nor replied to any missives from Myr since that night. The reason I don't have it set to ignore posts on the forums is just for this reason (although I do immediately trash any of Myrs private messages.) If I see an attack post, I will respond. I don't want whomever Myr is directing the intolerance at to feel like they are doing anything wrong. I will come to their defense whenever I see it.
I also had good reason for skipping 2 of the toggles, but I'm not going to start that discussion again. I refuse to be put on the defensive for something that isn't wrong to begin with.
But, this is being dragged off track by senseless e-rage.
Having Pet-Peeves is one thing, telling people that they are playing anything "wrong" when they are having fun is not a Pet-Peeve. It's Arrogant Intolerance. And I won't stand around and let you spread it without speaking up.
If you wish to continue your argumentative posts, feel free.
But, you are only continuing to prove my point.
Member - Pingus, & Legendaries
Angry Sysop 50 BRUTE - Angry Woodsman 50 TANK - Angry Florist 21 CONTROLLER
"Did your Phantom Army just take the Elevator? Imaginary People riding Elevators? *facepalm*
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Originally Posted by Myrmydon
*****
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Originally Posted by BlackAmaranth
******
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You both look like fools for continuing this . . .
<insert non-funny dead horse image here>
Oh and to stay on topic . . . .People who can't let **** go.
Not to further the argument, but I can see this situation from both sides... as the */Pain MM that got turned away, and as the guy that regularly puts together Task Forces and builds team with what's on hand.
If, for example, a Rad/Rad Defender has no toggle debuffs, the question isn't Why didn't you take those sweet debuffs, the question is what can the team depend on from you? Which (I imagine) is a Debuffing Ranged Blaster with no melee to distract.
Everything helps; the question is just what will fit with the current group? If the group has a few AoE toggle debuffs already, then the Rad Blaster comes in handy (and buffs the team with AM, too).
Nobody should tell anyone what to do with their toon, but a TF organizer, for instance, has to look at what will work together for the good of the team. A non-toggling Rad/Rad Defender has it's uses, and no one should tell someone how to run their toon... or how to stock their team.
Which, as much as it kills me, means I guess I have to let go of my grrrrrrr at the fellow who told me he was passing on my PD for Empathy. I shouldn't have been asked to change to an alt, but I can't fault someone for wanting what an Empathy has over my PD.
I've heard that there's a person (I may know them) that plays a petless Master Mind.
I've heard that this person notifies teams of this fact when they join.
I've heard that teams appreciate this information given up front.
I've heard that teams sometimes choose not to play with this person.
I've heard that this person excepted that happenstance when they created the character.
I've heard that this person doesn't hold it against others who expect a Master Mind to have pets.
Now, I may have heard wrong, but all that seems perfectly reasonable to me. People get to make characters as they see fit. If someone wants to create a non-standard character, then there's nothing wrong with that. However, they should understand that others may not wish to participate in their experiment. They should not expect others to follow or understand their vision.
See? Everyone is a little right and a little wrong, as usual. Play how you want, and don't expect others to lay the same way. Applicable in both directions simultaneously. 
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Originally Posted by Infernal_Jester
Oh and to stay on topic . . . .People who can't let **** go. |
agreed
Lead Squirrel at Dr. E Spider robotic site #643
Nothing saids its your spot like an ourob. Portal dropped on the ground.
My pet peeve is people who think that you have to have certain types on a team to make it work. Now I get if you're trying to run a MoSTF, or do a specific speed run or something like that. You have certain requirements for what you want on the team. I'm cool with that. I'm talking about when someone is putting together a TF or a trial or something, and they're constantly broadcasting trying to get people to join, and so you say "sure I'm in" and they ask what you're bringing, and you tell them, and they say "no, we don't need that."
That just annoys the **** out of me. I run TFs and trials all the time, and I really don't care what people bring. It doesn't matter to me, we'll find a way to make it work. Most of the team makeups I end up with are terribly goofy. But, who cares? Its fun getting there and figuring it out as you go. So to all those people who spam for people to join their stuff, then turn you down when you're not the "proper" AT.... get bent. That is all.
�Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.� ― John Wayne
�Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!� - George Carlin
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Whom, interestingly enough, I spent half of Double XP Sunday with in a team in RWZ. |
Originally Posted by PantherShade
I've heard that there's a person (I may know them) that plays a petless Master Mind.
I've heard that this person notifies teams of this fact when they join. I've heard that teams appreciate this information given up front. I've heard that teams sometimes choose not to play with this person. I've heard that this person excepted that happenstance when they created the character. I've heard that this person doesn't hold it against others who expect a Master Mind to have pets. Now, I may have heard wrong, but all that seems perfectly reasonable to me. People get to make characters as they see fit. If someone wants to create a non-standard character, then there's nothing wrong with that. However, they should understand that others may not wish to participate in their experiment. They should not expect others to follow or understand their vision. See? Everyone is a little right and a little wrong, as usual. Play how you want, and don't expect others to lay the same way. Applicable in both directions simultaneously. |
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
People that omit a single letter from a word to "shorten" it.
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This.|
Originally Posted by PantherShade
I've heard that there's a person (I may know them) that plays a petless Master Mind.
I've heard that this person notifies teams of this fact when they join. I've heard that teams appreciate this information given up front. I've heard that teams sometimes choose not to play with this person. I've heard that this person excepted that happenstance when they created the character. I've heard that this person doesn't hold it against others who expect a Master Mind to have pets. Now, I may have heard wrong, but all that seems perfectly reasonable to me. People get to make characters as they see fit. If someone wants to create a non-standard character, then there's nothing wrong with that. However, they should understand that others may not wish to participate in their experiment. They should not expect others to follow or understand their vision. See? Everyone is a little right and a little wrong, as usual. Play how you want, and don't expect others to lay the same way. Applicable in both directions simultaneously. |
When playing my pvp emp with no rez I kindly mention as much when people ask me to play it. If they are cool with it, then so am I. If not, Oohh well, NEXT!
Having the right to build toons the way you want is cool. Realize the teams you might join should also have the right to not have to play with you when you are not able to do the functions that they were expecting based on your AT.
Feel like you shouldn't have been asked to switch, or get kicked, or have cynical comments beating you over the head, then let team leaders know before joining teams about your quirky special builds. A few seconds of courtesy can stop all kinds of issues in their tracks.
**On a side note a rad fender with no debuffs being looked at as a rad blaster...not so much. Defender damage is no where near what a blaster can offer. The concept of it I can understand, though personally I wouldn't build it. Such a build does however deserve a courtesy to the team leader to be mentioned in advance IMHO.
I've only got three questions when it comes to teaming and worrying about specific builds or powers taken or not taken:
Are the mobs still going down, and the mish objectives taken care of?
If there are team wipes, is it because of that supposed "gimped" teammate, or a combination of other things (like maybe the rest of the team not adjusting their tactics for the powers others have brought with them)?
Is everyone on the team still having fun?
Honestly, the only one that matters is #3, and if you find yourself the only one on the team that's not having fun, perhaps it's you that need to find another team. There is precious few activities in this game that require certain builds or ATs in order to accomplish, and that's probably stretching it a bit.
The only time anyone should be concerned with a teammate is when they're deliberatly doing things to kill the team or the fun. Not having Power A is not on that list.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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you would enjoy being on a team with an empath defender who did not take |
Originally Posted by StrayKitten
*sigh* May as well say it now.
I wish I could understand where you're coming from, I really do, but unfortunately I don't know how someone not having the same powers you would take from the set would cause them to 'not contribute.' I'm sorry, but until you can find a statement somewhere in the documentation that says "You must take this power in order to play the AT as it was intended in its design," then I'm afraid that you're being incredibly presumptuous in your statements. |
heal other, clear mind, fortitude, or adrenalin boost? (or any of the other empathy powers?)
I would not team with am emp who did not have the basic team buffing powers. I relate that directly to a rad who did not take RI or EF.
I know a person who currently plays an invuln tank without Unyeilding. Needless to say the team carries the tank. This same person played an emp without clear mind (and I was continuously stunned on my scrapper while fighting malta -this was a LONG time ago pre IO's) I do not team with that person often, and when my patience wheres out because of the team carrying a player who does not have the powers which are very important to the set, then I know it is time for me to go elsewhere.
I dont dislike the person, but I dont play well on the same team. (for the record, it is not BA...)
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
People who play toons with buffs for teammates, but only apply them to one or two of those teammates (usually the ones who need them the least.) Especially when they are getting buffed by the other defs, trollers, corrs, etc. and are never returning the favor.
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My point isn't that I don't believe that there are some powers that should be taken for the sake of the powerset. My point is that someone shouldn't claim that in order to "play the AT as it was designed" you have to take those powers. I feel that that's being presumptuous in assuming what the developers had originally intended for each powerset/AT is all. I could just as easily make the argument that if you don't take every power from your primary and secondary then you're not playing things the way they were intended.|
Originally Posted by Ice_Ember
you would enjoy being on a team with an empath defender who did not take
heal other, clear mind, fortitude, or adrenalin boost? (or any of the other empathy powers?) I would not team with am emp who did not have the basic team buffing powers. I relate that directly to a rad who did not take RI or EF. I know a person who currently plays an invuln tank without Unyeilding. Needless to say the team carries the tank. This same person played an emp without clear mind (and I was continuously stunned on my scrapper while fighting malta -this was a LONG time ago pre IO's) I do not team with that person often, and when my patience wheres out because of the team carrying a player who does not have the powers which are very important to the set, then I know it is time for me to go elsewhere. I dont dislike the person, but I dont play well on the same team. (for the record, it is not BA...) |
Not that I believe that, it just holds the same logic is all.
Now, I have to agree with Jester...
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that is not the same logic at all. all powers versus the key powers of the set are very different things. |
Originally Posted by StrayKitten
My point isn't that I don't believe that there are some powers that should be taken for the sake of the powerset. My point is that someone shouldn't claim that in order to "play the AT as it was designed" you have to take those powers. I feel that that's being presumptuous in assuming what the developers had originally intended for each powerset/AT is all. I could just as easily make the argument that if you don't take every power from your primary and secondary then you're not playing things the way they were intended.
Not that I believe that, it just holds the same logic is all. |
my simple answer is this... dual builds. you can play your gimp build without RI/EF, Unyeilding, etc alll you want to, but when you are playing on a team that wants the benefits of the powerset you have chosen to play, swap to that one.
That way the non speedboost fire/kin farmers can have their farming build, and when they play a TF or team with folks that want a kin for the speedboost they can provide it.
most people are too lazy or cheap to SO out a second build, but to each their own.
I wont team with with a person who has to be carried by the rest of the team. A rad without toggles or a tank without unyeilding is being carried by the rest of the team. If you dont like it, dont team with me. To each their own.
YMMV---IMOIce Ember
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I think you're still missing what I'm getting at, but for the sake of not carrying this out any further I'll stop it here other than to say that, yes, those powers are typically sought by the players when they're teaming with those ATs and that's not what I'm trying to argue.
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Originally Posted by Ice_Ember
that is not the same logic at all. all powers versus the key powers of the set are very different things.
my simple answer is this... dual builds. you can play your gimp build without RI/EF, Unyeilding, etc alll you want to, but when you are playing on a team that wants the benefits of the powerset you have chosen to play, swap to that one. That way the non speedboost fire/kin farmers can have their farming build, and when they play a TF or team with folks that want a kin for the speedboost they can provide it. most people are too lazy or cheap to SO out a second build, but to each their own. I wont team with with a person who has to be carried by the rest of the team. A rad without toggles or a tank without unyeilding is being carried by the rest of the team. If you dont like it, dont team with me. To each their own. |
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Not to further the argument, but the core of what I was saying was not that people shouldn't expect certain powers when they play with a certain Archetype. But, that it is wrong to label them as "Wrong" or "Broken" for not having the typical power list.|
Originally Posted by StrayKitten
I think you're still missing what I'm getting at, but for the sake of not carrying this out any further I'll stop it here other than to say that, yes, those powers are typically sought by the players when they're teaming with those ATs and that's not what I'm trying to argue.
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I totally understand if you get confused and a little annoyed if you team with a Emp who only takes the buffs but none of the actual healing powers or a Stalker who never uses Hide. People expect certain things when they hear a powerset shouted out. But, when someone verbally demeans them and makes them feel like a bad player for playing in a way that makes them happy, it's just...... rude. And hurtful. And I just think we shouldn't be hurtful to someone because they decided to travel the road-less-taken.
The powersets give you options for powers and slotting so you can make your Hero or Villain unique. And I applaud those who make totally unique things. And even if you don't applaud it, you should at least tolerate it.
And maybe I went a bit overboard (excuse the pun) villainizing Myrmydon in this case. And for that I am sorry. And me making the parallels to a Gay-Basher was a bit extreme. And again, I apologize.
I was trying to make a point that we shouldn't let our opinions cause hurtful drama, and I pretty much optimized the worst case scenario of what I was trying to prevent.... WHILE describing it. Talk about irony.
Member - Pingus, & Legendaries
Angry Sysop 50 BRUTE - Angry Woodsman 50 TANK - Angry Florist 21 CONTROLLER
"Did your Phantom Army just take the Elevator? Imaginary People riding Elevators? *facepalm*
Another pet peeve: When characters with a powerset that has a buff that can only be applied to two or three players at a time uses the power on those that benefit least from it. (For example: Forging a Gravity/Empathy Controller on a team with three Blasters).
Along the same vein as that: Players that will only maintain one copy of a powerful buff on one character at a time. For example: Fortitude, Forge. I know that these powers can be kept on two players (almost) permanently *out of the box,* why can't they manage to keep more than one player buffed by their mid-40s?
It also annoys me when players don't enhance particular powers in the most obvious ways. For example, three slotting Ice Shield with defense.
I guess all of those boil down to: My pet-peeve: People that don't use the powers they have as well as they could.
people on teams that open an oro portal and hop in and closing it out.. thats kinda like not opening the door on a date or walking in 1st to a restaurant.
People that feel the need to run every toggle they have while spamming heals and such at an auctionhouse.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight