In Your Opinion, What is a "Farm"?


Agonus

 

Posted

I hear a lot about "farm" this and that. I report "farms"..."farms" are exploits, etc..so I thought I should find out what makes a farm, a "farm".

So...what, in your opinion, makes a mission a farm and thus something that should be reported?


 

Posted

Farming is going to do a mission or missions with the explicit purpose of getting loot drops, recipes, or money.

Good Farmers do it alone. Because sharing drops defeats the purpose.

Most farmers have a specific map they enjoy, and can do quickly.

:edit:

WTH are you talking about "reporting" ??? Are you talking about some AE BS?
Because Real Farmers dont farm tickets.
Real Farmers are the ones making white garbage drops cost over 100k each.
Real Farmers sell purples.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PL4U View Post
Farming is going to do a mission or missions with the explicit purpose of getting loot drops, recipes, or money.

Good Farmers do it alone. Because sharing drops defeats the purpose.

Most farmers have a specific map they enjoy, and can do quickly.

:edit:

WTH are you talking about "reporting" ??? Are you talking about some AE BS?
Because Real Farmers dont farm tickets.
Real Farmers are the ones making white garbage drops cost over 100k each.
Real Farmers sell purples.
Wow, You read my mind.
And you even added all the snarkiness I would have added.

You should be more specific, are you talking about my LIFES JOY with this game in farming Battle Maiden and Behemoths... or are you making another thread about Mission Architect... and all of it's farming for tickets?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terman8er View Post
I hear a lot about "farm" this and that. I report "farms"..."farms" are exploits, etc..so I thought I should find out what makes a farm, a "farm".

So...what, in your opinion, makes a mission a farm and thus something that should be reported?
Well, it's not a "It's a farm = report" issue. Farms are not exploits, per se. Exploitive missions are typically set up as farms, but not all farms are exploits. (Just like sports cars are vehicles, but not all vehicles are sports cars.)

So - let's go with a *few* definitions.

Farming - Running one specific piece of content (a mission, a map, an AE mission, etc.) repeatedly, with no (immediate) intent to finish it (traditional missions) or move beyond it (as some farms are "finished" in AE to get an end reward, and this can also be done with Ouro and task forces.) Running it specifically TO repeat it for whatever reason.

AE and Ouro thow a bit of a wrench into what's been "traditionally" a sign of a farm - *almost* finishing a mission, resetting and going at it again and again. With AE, after all, you can just re-pick the mission. Ouro (and task/strike forces) can do a mission or entire arc over and over.

Farming is also hazily defined by intent. I, for instance, was having a lot of fun a while back with one of my tanks dealing with Warrior Earth. I exited and reset just to fight them again a few times. By a strict definition, that's probably farming - but I wasn't going for any reward, or even paying attention to drops, just having fun (and did complete the mission and move on after a couple of times through.) Typically, someone's going to point out intent in "farming" (at least the complained about ones) as trying to maximize a chance at a specific reward, or because it's being used to powerlevel. AE, again, has added to this as various exploits get found - and then dealt with by the dev staff, often affecting those who used the same mobs or objects (in a standard, non exploitive fashion) as part of their mission.

As an aside, it need not be repetition in all cases. Some badge farms require just maintaining a specific situation for a set amount of time, such as healing or damage farms where a player can leave a character in place overnight, sometimes over several nights.

A Farm, then, is easy to define - the mission or situation which is being used for farming. It doesn't HAVE to be in a mission (witness "rep farms" and "PVP IO farms" which take place in PVP zones.) A farm can either be - I suppose we can say 'natural' or 'artificial,' natural being developer content that someone's just rerunning, artificial being a player-created situation specifically for farming. (Edit - yes, also refers to the group that is doing the farming.)

So far, we're not really at something "to be reported." They can be irritating at times, especially those used to PL (with chat, /tell and broadcast spam,) and can lead to reportable situations - but in general, it's not something that a report will do anything about.

What's reportable are exploits. The developers have told us - and very understandably so - that they will not give a strict definition of exploit. For instance, if they said "Getting from 20-30 in 30 minutes" was reportable and bannable because it's obviously an exploit - people would just wait at 29 until 35 minutes have passed, and then argue that they were within the limits set by the developers for "non exploitive" play.

Some may say it's slapdash or too subjective - I say use some common sense. If you're going, say, from 1-25 in one mission, or hitting 50 in three hours - far beyond what general play would do - you're involved in an exploit. You're going way beyond a sensible reward rate. If you're able to go through and finish a mission at zero risk, or with risk tilted very heavily in your favor with almost any build (as opposed to, say, a fire tank facing fire based enemies,) you're probalby in an exploitive situation. (The recent "lvl 49 Healing mitos" farms, which were full of an enemy that gave reward yet was incapable of fighting back, or Cimeroran surgeons (no attacks,) or - from the Architect beta - Vampire capsules (I think) or the crystal room from Silver Mantis (?) strike force giving tons of tickets for no risk- all of these would be heavily skewed towards "no risk/high reward.")


 

Posted

My apologies for not, apparently, clarifying what I meant.

If a "farm" is, and I quote:

Quote:
Farming is going to do a mission or missions with the explicit purpose of getting loot drops, recipes, or money.
what does it matter if it is in AE or not?

In regards to "reporting", I would presume 'reporting' pertains to exploits and exploits only. If you opinion differs from mine I would like to hear it. Thanks.


 

Posted

Farmers are level 50.... for the most part!
I have a perma 24 to farm DA...

When you talk about leveling that is called power leveling. Dont confuse that with FARMING.
Farmers dont care about exp because they arent getting any...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terman8er View Post
My apologies for not, apparently, clarifying what I meant.

If a "farm" is, and I quote:
what does it matter if it is in AE or not?

In regards to "reporting", I would presume 'reporting' pertains to exploits and exploits only. If you opinion differs from mine I would like to hear it. Thanks.
I dont know about farming the AE because I think that is silly... You dont get anything good for doing it.

I farm for drops, and then I sell them on the market and make big $


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain View Post
I dont know about farming the AE because I think that is silly... You dont get anything good for doing it.

I farm for drops, and then I sell them on the market and make big $
Isn't that subjective? Specifically your statement of I dont know about farming the AE because I think that is silly... You dont get anything good for doing it."

Isn't what is "good" subjective to each person?

Tickets are good, XP is good, influence is good...right? If not to you then perhaps to someone else?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain View Post
Farmers are level 50.... for the most part!
I have a perma 24 to farm DA...

When you talk about leveling that is called power leveling. Dont confuse that with FARMING.
Farmers dont care about exp because they arent getting any...
Excellent. Thank you.

I think you make a very valid point here. In your opinion "Farmers dont care about exp ".

That, in my opinion, muddys the water in regards to"farming" and "Power Leveling".


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terman8er View Post
My apologies for not, apparently, clarifying what I meant.

If a "farm" is, and I quote:
what does it matter if it is in AE or not?

In regards to "reporting", I would presume 'reporting' pertains to exploits and exploits only. If you opinion differs from mine I would like to hear it. Thanks.
As an Anti-farmer that has reported many exploit farm/pl'ing missions in the AE, I'll let you know my criteria.

We are talking about the balance of risk versus rewards. Therefore, anytime that they players are given a far greater advantage over the enemies in the mission or the mission is set to yield far greater rewards than normal, I consider it an exploit farm.

That is to say, if you feel that you are getting far greater rewards than you should be - and this is obvious enough in many cases that even someone that hasn't played the game before can say "hey? why am I leveling so fast?" - then you know it is an exploit.
If the AE mission isn't constructed in the same kind of mob balance as a normal mission, I consider it an exploit farm

I would go into specifics, but we are not supposed to post exploits in the forums.


 

Posted

Agreed. A lot of those 'farming' in AE aren't really farmers.

To the OP:

Farm maps in general are chosen for their unique synergy with various AT's. Also, farm maps typically are fairly large, making it worthwhile to take the time to gather fillers and set the map for a larger group.

AE has let people pick a map they are best familiar with, place a mob type they are best suited against, and run the mission to their heart's content. In the process, wanting to fill a team, a bunch of lowbies get a free ride. I look forward to issue 16, where I believe it will be more about what you can offer for a team, rather than only being a way to increase the spawn size. While there are farmers in AE, the majority of the 50's you see running AE aren't what I would consider farmers, because their behavior is the exact opposite of a farmer. A farmer is concerned about one thing: inf/time. Deadweight only slows this down.

One more thing: Real farmers do enjoy the rewards they get, but they also find what they do quite enjoyable. The person you see regularly on a fire/kin will likely tell you that they really enjoy having entire mobs under their whims, while that brute that rips everything to shreds does it for the exact same reason - to be able to charge in the middle of something and feel incredibly powerful. If anything, farmers can often be compared to soloists who like to solo maps built for teams.

I hope that answers some of your questions.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic View Post
I would go into specifics, but we are not supposed to post exploits in the forums.
HAHA. Since when has that stopped you before? Back to making stuff up again. Forum change took you off my ignore list(just realized it), so you once again get to be the only person on it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PL4U View Post
Real Farmers are the ones making white garbage drops cost over 100k each.
No, that's marketeers. Farmers either have no effect on the price of common salvage (some will just delete it because it's not worth enough, which is just as if they hadn't been farming in the first place), or they'll make the price come down by introducing a larger supply.


(Of course, it's possible for a farmer to also be a marketeer)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting_Whisper View Post
No, that's marketeers.
Not it's not. It's AE and double XP. The marketeers just take advantage of the extra demand and lower supply. They don't cause the prices to rise like that.


 

Posted

None the less, I farm for drops, money, and recipes.
I sell my crappy salvage drops for 100,000 Inf now a days because a bunch of people... Think playing AE is somehow better...
When they power level their characters up, getting nothing but tickets and random rolls they have managed to skip all the merits for the most part, and all the good recipe drops and salvage.

I am also a marketeer, But I am mainly a farmer... and sometimes, I power level - but that is a rare occasion.

We got a 3rd acct just so we could farm more.
We are considering a 4th account if Issue 16 goes live with the team size slider feature intact.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting_Whisper View Post
No, that's marketeers. Farmers either have no effect on the price of common salvage (some will just delete it because it's not worth enough, which is just as if they hadn't been farming in the first place), or they'll make the price come down by introducing a larger supply.


(Of course, it's possible for a farmer to also be a marketeer)
Which means that farmers (that are marketeers) do have an effect on the price of common salvage.
And if common salvage sells for a lot, then even non-marketeer farmers will be likely to sell it.

So at least some farmers do affect it because they are marketeers, and even non-marketeer farmers get involved when prices are high on common salvage - which they have been (in cycles) since the AE was introduced.


 

Posted

Running nothing but freakshow and council radio missions is a type of farming.

Streetsweeping Perez Park is a type of farming.

Sewer teams are a type of farming.

Slaughtering zombies by the thousands in Dark Astoria is a type of farming.

Killing skulls or monkeys or Fake Nemesis for a badge is a type of farming.

More often, by farming people mean running the same high-end mission over and over and over, or an AE mission designed to be repeated, in each case for high rewards. Specific to AE, you'd have one of a handful of maps, but often the narrow city map or the dreck map, and you've have a specific enemy that are all bosses or all Lts., and usually an enemy that does smashing/lethal damage and does not have much of a ranged attack.

None of that falls into what I would consider exploits, although I admit it's my opinion only. But one of the definitions given by the red names is too much reward for too little or no risk. A boss farm yields a very high reward -- but not without risk. In fact I've rarely been on one where people didn't die, sometimes quite a few times, even on ones run by people who know exactly what they're doing.

I've seen one such mission with Lts. who don't happen to have any ranged attack at all. This is a lot closer to an exploit, in my opinion, although in truth a hovering blaster would take forever to clear the map on his own because they will run all over the place. But with a well built tank to herd them, you can blast from on high and you're in no danger whatsoever. People on the ground are in quite a bit of danger (we had a team wipe in fact, except for the one person who could fly -- me), but still, that one felt like probably an exploit to me.

Helper NPCs that buff, etc., also seem to push the envelope for me, but of course they're quite common in such missions.

Another one that I've seen that I thought was potentially borderline an exploit involved lots and lots of a certain AV. Granted, it's an AV -- people died, often. But each was worth a lot of experience, and I just don't think you're supposed to encounter 20 or more of the same AV in the same mission. How does that make any sense?

Ultimately though, my only real problem with boss farms or AV farms is the repetition. I think you gain experience too fast in these missions, but there's also a lot of danger if your team isn't built well, so it's hard to call them exploits. Serious exploits like bubble farms and all-rikti communication officer farms are much easier to spot as patently against the rules.

The upcoming change in difficulty settings is, frankly, giving people who love to farm what they really want. I don't really see a problem with that -- if you can solo a map set for 8, then go for it. I agree that it can be a lot of fun. But that's farming, too.



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Posted

Well, there are many definitions, but a farm is where crop or livestock cultivation occurs, usually on one to several acres of fertile landscape. Plants range from various, standard crops to exotic crops dependent upon the climate and soil availability as well as soil nutrient level. Farms are fairly typical in the "Breadbasket" of the Uni--wait...

Wait...

OHHHH.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain View Post
None the less, I farm for drops, money, and recipes.
I sell my crappy salvage drops for 100,000 Inf now a days because a bunch of people... Think playing AE is somehow better...
When they power level their characters up, getting nothing but tickets and random rolls they have managed to skip all the merits for the most part, and all the good recipe drops and salvage.
The only thing you can't get out of AE is Purples. So people will still get all the other recipes and salvage if they choose to use their tickets that way.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
The only thing you can't get out of AE is Purples. So people will still get all the other recipes and salvage if they choose to use their tickets that way.
WHy would you want something other than a purple?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain View Post
WHy would you want something other than a purple?
I understand what you're saying. I was just mentioning that there is plenty of influence/infamy to be made in AE. Especially if you are optimized for a particular farm. Once i16 goes live I'll be moving back to PI to solo/duo BM again.

I don't like farming in AE. I only do it to push certain characters past levels I don't like. I find boss farming in PuGs boring and frustrating.


 

Posted

Farming in this game is differant than most games. The traditional definition of farming is preforming the same taks repeatedly, usually fighting a single enemy type or boss, to obtain a specific reward. IE, "This boss drops a weapon, I want that weapon, therefore I won't stop killing him til I get it."

CoX is differant, because there is no "X drops Y". Almost anything can drop almost everything. So the task is modified, farming becomes killing as many enemies as possible in a short amount of time to get the reward.

Is this wrong? Not really, it's a fundamental part of gaming which everyone does, to one extent or another.

The problem lies not with farming as a whole, but with powerlevelling. Farming for XP is differant, and unhealty to the game balance. We've all seen the "AE Babies", and they speak for themselves.

The other problem is AE. It was not designed for making farms, and doing so is basically spitting in the face of the people who went through programming Hell to design it. It's like making a new toy for a child, and then watching the child gleefully smash it to pieces. They might think it's fun, they might say "You didn't say not to", but your hard work was just ruined.


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Virtue Forever.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Star_Of_Thade View Post
Well, there are many definitions, but a farm is where crop or livestock cultivation occurs, usually on one to several acres of fertile landscape. Plants range from various, standard crops to exotic crops dependent upon the climate and soil availability as well as soil nutrient level. Farms are fairly typical in the "Breadbasket" of the Uni--wait...

Wait...

OHHHH.
Beat me to it.

STAMOOOOOOS!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terman8er View Post
So...what, in your opinion, makes a mission a farm and thus something that should be reported?
It's very simple. I am constantly amazed at how much trouble people have with this.

A farm is any type of mission, created by players or developers, of which I disapprove, or which is or can be played in a manner which I myself do not enjoy, and one which will provide me a basis for strutting on the forums in assumed rags of a trumpery moral superiority should I report it, or threaten to report it, or claim to have reported it.

I trust this is finally clear.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBhumeBB View Post
It's very simple. I am constantly amazed at how much trouble people have with this.

A farm is any type of mission, created by players or developers, of which I disapprove, or which is or can be played in a manner which I myself do not enjoy, and one which will provide me a basis for strutting on the forums in assumed rags of a trumpery moral superiority should I report it, or threaten to report it, or claim to have reported it.

I trust this is finally clear.
My man, defined at last