Able to fill missing roles in those PUG TFs.
Anything/Therm- Thermal can be a passable empath/bubbler/debuffer all rolled into one. People may complain about the graphics on Earth/ but that -defense is a great help.
Most sought after (so I can get in on more).
Anything/Kin, most likely. Folks love dem some SB.
Or a Healorz. :-P
Contributes most to typical TF.
Anything/Rad, if you're fighting AVs.
Anything/Kin to keep things moving.
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Wait for issue 16 and roll an Earth/Cold.
Outside of controllers, Kin, or Rad/sonic. /sonic will boost the teams damage and make things go quicker. Both will be awesome for AVs. Dark, or Storm could be good to add since it's easy to pull off stealthing and very few turn down the idea of stealthing during TFs.
For blasters, as much firepower as possible to make things go fast. Might not hurt to bring a little something else to the table, ie /dev for stealthing and prefight setup, or /ice for added control. I've seen a Fire/ice blaster handle alpha strike duties on a team against CoT. Funny as hell to see it happen too. They toss Fireball to aggro everything, run around a corner, lay down Ice Patch, and let the mob bunch up and start flopping around.
Scrappers, anything, but /regen, or /sr although /sr can be made into a great alpha striker depending on the mob. /dark, or /invul will be the most team friendly. /wp's taunt aura sucks too much to really be much of anything on a scrapper. Spines, or Fire to crank out the damage.
Tanks, Ice has the best aggro management. Ice/fire is best at it. Stone is the sturdiest, but it's the only build I got to 30 and then deleted because I didn't like the -speed aspect. Even a SG mate got one to 50, endlessly talked to me about it, and ended up deleting it because he found it was only needed so often.
The one I'll get to 50 first is Dark/stone because Fault + OG is stacked AoE disorient goodness. A Dark/stone is a controller in a tanks body. End issues are overrated due to tanks not having to spam attacks as bad as other ATs, so you can kind of hang back and use Taunt to help keep your end bar in check when needed. Theft of Essence +end proc also does wonders for the end bar.
In short, you kind of look through powersets and try to find builds that cover more than one area. I was giddy watching my Ice/ice blaster be the sole controller on a 2x exp weekend team one time. Any build that can do more than one thing is always welcomed on PuG TFs.
for the primary, I vote for Illusion Control.
Sup Invis or Group Invis is awesome. Deceive and Blind are great ST mezes. Spectral Terror is available on every fight. Oh, and PA = win.
Get Recall Friend, though...
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I would say that there isn't one single controller answer to your question. For example, if a team has several blasters, nothing is better than my Earth/Rad. He uses his AoE controls with all of its Defense debuff to make it easy to hit stuff, and if the team has plenty of damage, Earth/Rad acts as a multiplier, letting the blasters act like they are shooting fish in a barrel. The Rad adds more debuffs, a heal, a rez, and I even have Fallout for when Blasters do what Blasters usually do.|
Originally Posted by justisaur
I love doing TFs. I love merits too
 I have a 50 Ill/Rad that's pretty good on TFs, but I've been bored with her for a long time, and I'm a bit unhappy with the phantasm's knockback (I suppose I can just not summon it, but that cuts into damage). So I'm wondering what would be the best Controller for doing TFs (or any other AT, but I'd rather stick with controller). Basically random PUG TFs where you don't know what you are going to get. I've got a plant/storm too up to the 20s, but not feeling that right now, he's probably allright on TFs, but not really sure. I'm thinking knockback is just too risky on fast paced TFs. So best meaning Able to fill missing roles in those PUG TFs. Most sought after (so I can get in on more). Contributes most to typical TF. Good early enough to be useful on low level TFs, yet still good at high level for things like ITF & LGTF. I'm thinking of a plant/kin or plant/trick arrow, but worried I won't be that good at filling missing roles with either of those. Although Kins of some sort are usually fairly sought after, but not sure they are really all that on TFs, and are better on farms which I don't like. |
If the team needs damage, I will pull out my Fire/Rad. If we are weak on tanking or need someone to stealth several missions, then my Illusion controllers work well. On the ITF, one of my favorite characters is my Ice/Storm. While those guys resist a lot of control powers, Slows work great on them and they resist a lot of knockback, letting me use Tornado and Lightning Storm without holding back. Plant and Fire are good for doing damage to large groups, but not as good for hard single targets. Earth, Ice and Mind provide good AoE control. Illusion is great to distract those AVs, and Grav has good single target damage.
As for secondaries, Rad is always welcome. Rad gets several of its best powers early in the set for those low level TFs, and continues to be great even in the end game TFs. Rad provides a little of what everyone wants. Heal, buffs, debuffs, control. And the more Rads you have, the better the team will be.
Kinetics is usually very welcome, especially by Stone Tanks. Speed Boosting the team will help everyone do things faster, and in the late game, everyone knows the power of Fulcrum Shift to buff damage. If you have a bunch of Blasters, Speed Boosting them to use their nukes more often, then having Transference to recharge them with Endurance can really speed up a TF.
Storm is hard to play well on a big team . . . you have to learn when to not use many of your knockback powers. But a well-played stormie is a huge benefit to a team, with huge debuffs from Freezing Rain and various control and positioning powers. While you don't have any -Regen, the autohit damage from Tornado makes up for that -- great on AVs.
TA? I have an Ill/TA at 50, and he's been fun to play. He certainly contributes to TFs, but I generally feel that a Rad contributes more, other than the damage from OSA. TA's biggest TF weaknesses are low amounts of -Regen and ToHit Debuff.
Of the buff sets (Therm, Sonic, FF, Emp), it really depends on the make-up of your team. Many teams look for an Empath, so Empathy will get you quick invites. Personally, I think Therm is a better overall set, depending upon the team.
I might suggest looking at a Plant/Kin. Plant gives you good control and AoE damage for those low level TFs, while Kinetics gives a huge buff to the team for the higher level TFs.
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Pretty much what Local_Man intoned, it's nice to have a full stable of different controllers so that you can bring whatever's needed.
On TFs, you're going to run into lots of EBs and AVs, so you want a controller that can hold or distract such foes if for some reason the Tank isn't up to snuff. Illu is the best at this, but since you want to get away from that, i'll vote Mind/TA (or Mind/Rad or Grav/TA)... anything that'll help you stack Hold or Immob magnitude. Mind is great because Mesmerize can one-shot sleep a foe if for some reason the team needs to run, and it's also good at shutting down an AV's toggles. Also, chaining TK, Dominate, Total Dom, and slotting your attacks with extra chance to hold procs = Held AV. If there's another troller on your team, you can probably even hold 'em through the PToD.
Just my 2 inf.
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The best single build I could think to add to any TF would be a Cold/Sonic defender. Rad/Sonic and Kin/Sonic also gets a strong /nod especially if you fit power boosted vengeance into your build. (Really just about the best thing you can bring to any PUG team)
As far as controllers, Plant/Rad is pretty wicked on just about every TF. Seeds + EF + RI + AM by level 15 I think (for Posi)
My Plant/Storm is wicked on those ITF/Khan runs! Massive AoE control and damage, Keep at it, it'll be worth it But the best, Hmm Assuming you want something to take out single hard targets aka.. the AV at the end? anything /Rad is of course a winner! As is /Kin.
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I honestly have to give a knod to plant, mostly for its effectiveness in Posi.
My Plant/TA has been running thru the TFs, and I feel real helpful.
Plant Control is really nice on teams at any level thanks to Seeds of Confusion. Not only does Seed provide hard control that's up every spawn with good slotting, it speeds up clearing a spawn by making them damage themselves. My Plant/Storm normally opens up with Seeds and then drops Freezing Rain on the mob and lets the team mop them up.
At high levels any Controller is helpful, but at low levels Plant is the only one with AoE controls available every spawn (unless the team is mowing things down in under 30 seconds, in which case no controls are needed). I'd probably go Plant/Kin for the absolute most useful TF Controller... Plant/Storm is fun but Kin has Speed Boost, Fulcrum Shift, and a good AoE heal to keep the Tankers and Scrappers going. Plus it's hard not to get a team on a Kin...
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My Plant/Storm has been the only Controller/Defender unit on three different TFs in the last couple months, and she managed it very well. Knockback is only a problem for /Storm if you can't keep it in your pants. If you only use it when you want it, it's incredibly effective. Lightning Storm cast from Hover directly above a boss will keep him knocked down into the floor till you can get holds stacked. Throw up a Snowstorm and Freezing Rain, and no one is going to be hurting anyone on you team ( this is all after opening with Seeds on way in). If the TF is a little higher, Creepers is AMAZING. Of course I'm a huge /Storm fan so anything /Storm gets my vote for pretty much any situation.
I got an invite the other day from a team of six mid-30s controllers trying to kill Eochai in Croatoa. They'd been fighting it for several minutes when I got there and hadn't dented it yet. We killed him within a few minutes after, so /Storm has the sort of debuff/damage output needed to kill very tough single targets as well as what ever normal spawns you come across.
Quote:
Well, an Earth/Rad has pretty good AoE control at level 4, even earlier than a Plant controller . . . not quite as good, but Stone Cages + Radiation Infection means that the foes can't move and they don't hit you very often -- which is almost as good as a hold. The main advantage is that it is continually available, as Stone Cages recharges faster than it expires and RI is a toggle. (In early levels, you spend a lot of time waiting for Seeds to recharge on a Plant Controller.) Add to that the large -Defense in Earth, especially when you add in Quicksand at level 6.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
At high levels any Controller is helpful, but at low levels Plant is the only one with AoE controls available every spawn (unless the team is mowing things down in under 30 seconds, in which case no controls are needed). I'd probably go Plant/Kin for the absolute most useful TF Controller... Plant/Storm is fun but Kin has Speed Boost, Fulcrum Shift, and a good AoE heal to keep the Tankers and Scrappers going. Plus it's hard not to get a team on a Kin...
|
Still, I agree that a Plant/Kin (or /Rad) would make a good choice. My Plant/Rad is up to 49, and I think I'm gonna roll up a Plant/Kin on another server (ugh, more alts . . . )
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Well, obviously different sets will bring qualitatively different things. And makeup of the rest of the team would be a huge factor, if you could know beforehand.... you know, for example, if you were on a team of blasters, Earth/ and Ice/, /FF and /Storm would rule, whereas on a team of tanks, not so much.
Sight-unseen, I guess I have to conclude the strongest sets would be best. I think I'd rank the secondaries Kin, Rad, and Storm, followed by the others on roughl equal footing, and for primaries, Fire, Plant, Earth, Illusion, Ice, Gravity, Mind, in that order. Both cases best to worst.
Too, which TF you're doing will make a difference. As I was reminded the other day, for example, mind and plant stand at a bit of a disadvantage with long TFs full of Nemesis (who resist confuses. Of course, Dr. Quarterfield just sux generally.) TFs with a lot of ambushes and if where you face stuff that's going to con far above you, of course, will welcome more strongly defensive builds (Earth and Ice with Forcefield, Sonic, I presume Thermal, and to a lesser extent Empathy).
Oh-- something you're more likely to know beforehand than your teammates exact builds, is whether you're playing with PuGs or Vets. Again, with PuGs, a TF will be MUCH easier if you choose a little closer to the defensive end of the build spectrum. Rezzes and recall friend are also nice under those circumstances.
Finally, some TFs have one or several AVs you have to go up against, and secondaries with significant -regen will be nice in that case. Which really means, Rad and Kin, though... does thermal have any -regen? There's a case to be made for Illusion controllers for similar reasons-- if you expect not to have a tank to play damage sponge for certain AV's excessive attacks, PA I think is why people like Illusion here.
So, with your preferences for PuG, missing roles, popularity, power, and early power, I would almost certainly go /kin or /rad. I've never really tried to play Plant very defensively, but the set has so much going for it that I find it hard to ignore. Illusion's also a good choice, if you know how to handle it (I generally don't play Ill).
IOW-- I would totally go with your first instinct: Plant/Kin.
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I know you're looking for a troller here, but I have to say the best AT that I've ever used for TFs was my fire/fire blaster. In fact, I accumulated over 1,000 merits with him doing nothing but multiple Posi, Synapse, Sis Psy, Citadel, Manti and Numina runs.
Fire/fire is quick and fairly reasonable on endurance. With a KB resistance IO placed before lvl 15, I was able to crank out the damage with no regard for Ruin Mages, Clockwork Princes, etc. For higher level TFs, Aid Self comes in rather handy when there is little support or they can't get to you in time.
Aim+Build Up+Fireball+Fire Sword Circle is a thing of beauty to behold (little is left standing after that combo) and you'll find youself jumping right into the middle of mobs along with the scrappers and tanks. Also, when the situation seems to dangerous for melee range, you have the ability to blast from afar and still do excellent AoE damage.
Did I mention that fire/fire blasters are also REALLY fun to play? Cuz they are! Quite honestly, it's a very satisfying experience. 
I'll agree with the above:
Anything with Earth works on TFs. Illusion is a great stealther and mob placater, but earth has more tricks and flexibility for dealing with all sorts of mobs. If you're on a team you won't need PAs to survive AV alphas.
Kinetics, Radiation, Trick Arrow, Cold Domination and Storm (if you lockdown the mobs first) all set up your team to be lawnmowers.
Pick what you find the most fun. Enjoy!
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I know you said that you are bored with your ill/rad, but honestly I feel like a lump playing any other toon on a TF. Many toons bring more focused aspects to a team, but I have yet to play a character with the versatility and utility of my ill/rad. Tanking, buffing, debuffing, ST control, healing, and hard target negation are all amply present. Having capped stealth in the primary is also monstrously useful early on, if you are willing to use TP as a primary travel, and sacrifice a LOTG in cj or hover.
Pre PA/Spectre I lean heavily on deceive to negate hard targets (Helooooo embalmed abominations!) with its recharge it's easy enough to apply twice to bosses, CoT mages come to mind. By mid game (20-30) both of the sets have pretty much come together and the game is a walk in the park.
The PuG vs. vet team is a good point though. Most youngsters don't really notice how much easier the tasks are with PA soaking aggro, or EF, LR and RI are crippling spawns/avs. I can see the KB from 'tasm being annoying, but I never really pay him much mind in a tf. I summon him and occasionally see some orange numbers out of place.
I have given some serious consideration to plant. It could well be a runner up for general utility. It would also be nice to abuse containment with an AoE immob + patron AoE.
I love doing TFs. I love merits too
I have a 50 Ill/Rad that's pretty good on TFs, but I've been bored with her for a long time, and I'm a bit unhappy with the phantasm's knockback (I suppose I can just not summon it, but that cuts into damage). So I'm wondering what would be the best Controller for doing TFs (or any other AT, but I'd rather stick with controller). Basically random PUG TFs where you don't know what you are going to get.
I've got a plant/storm too up to the 20s, but not feeling that right now, he's probably allright on TFs, but not really sure. I'm thinking knockback is just too risky on fast paced TFs.
So best meaning
Able to fill missing roles in those PUG TFs.
Most sought after (so I can get in on more).
Contributes most to typical TF.
Good early enough to be useful on low level TFs, yet still good at high level for things like ITF & LGTF.
I'm thinking of a plant/kin or plant/trick arrow, but worried I won't be that good at filling missing roles with either of those. Although Kins of some sort are usually fairly sought after, but not sure they are really all that on TFs, and are better on farms which I don't like.