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But the point is that he didn't prevent the tank from tanking Rommy and the Nicti. He body pulled them. It's not like he prevented the tank from getting aggro after that. Honestly, if the tank thinks that taking the alpha is all that big of a deal within the long run, he's sadly mistaken, (especially when it's rather obvious from what we've been told that the tank was being rather laggard for the rest of the TF).|
Originally Posted by kokuryu_EU
The whole point of him setting up a team to do the TF was to know what it was like to Tank Rom and the Nictus. The thought of doing the whole thing for nothing obviously ticked him off.
If he made a bargain with you like carry on but I want to tank Rommie and you broke it then that adds to it. "The leader (stone tank) said it was fine, all he wanted to do was tank Rom." |
It's like I always say, if the Tanker isn't having to bust his *** to beat the Scrapper to the next spawn, the Scrapper isn't doing his job. If the Scrapper isn't having to bust his *** to beat the Tanker to the next spawn, the Tanker isn't doing his job. The Tanker obviously wasn't doing his job.
Quote:
Said tanker may not have known that he could easily pull agro off of the scrapper too. Plus him clearly stating his goal was to tank the end battle pretty clearly says to me he wanted to be in charge of that entire encounter. He likely wanted to do the "ready" chat and the "go" chat, or the "wait for my signal" command once he had the situation in hand.|
Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
But the point is that he didn't prevent the tank from tanking Rommy and the Nicti. He body pulled them. It's not like he prevented the tank from getting aggro after that. Honestly, if the tank thinks that taking the alpha is all that big of a deal within the long run, he's sadly mistaken, (especially when it's rather obvious from what we've been told that the tank was being rather laggard for the rest of the TF).
It's like I always say, if the Tanker isn't having to bust his *** to beat the Scrapper to the next spawn, the Scrapper isn't doing his job. If the Scrapper isn't having to bust his *** to beat the Tanker to the next spawn, the Tanker isn't doing his job. The Tanker obviously wasn't doing his job. |
It was likely very much a situation where the scrapper stole his thunder and he got upset. But to be fair he only asked to have that one moment in the spotlight and he was the team leader.
TBH I would have been very tempted to kick the OP as well. I'd never be in that situation as ever since my first ITF I've always been at the front of the pack, but he was lead and he declared how it would go down, everyone agreed, but the OP (inadvertently or otherwise) went back on that agreement in the leader's eyes.
Heres what I read:
"I ran ahead and I tanked this and then I ran ahead and I tanked that, and then I gathered these and I tanked them, and then I went on and I tanked this. Yes there were team deaths but they weren't my fault. I obviously never died. Then I saw Romi and I tanked him, then I was kicked, man was I suprised"
How about this next time?
"I am a team player. I help achieve team goals, in a way we agree on, so that we all have fun. I enjoy helping other players, rescue teammates in trouble, hate it when anyone dies. I was with a team leader that was much slower than I enjoy. But I still wanted him to have his fun, after all he did bother to put in the effort to make the team. Yes his team makeup wasnt optimal, he had no kin to help him overcome his speed deficit, but I was still happy to help him out. We achieved success by playing like a team even when everything wasnt as perfect as I liked it, and we all left the TF successfully, with a buncha merits, and I made a few new friends. "
-Largo
Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian
Quote:
Props to this.|
Originally Posted by Largo
Heres what I read:
"I ran ahead and I tanked this and then I ran ahead and I tanked that, and then I gathered these and I tanked them, and then I went on and I tanked this. Yes there were team deaths but they weren't my fault. I obviously never died. Then I saw Romi and I tanked him, then I was kicked, man was I suprised" How about this next time? "I am a team player. I help achieve team goals, in a way we agree on, so that we all have fun. I enjoy helping other players, rescue teammates in trouble, hate it when anyone dies. I was with a team leader that was much slower than I enjoy. But I still wanted him to have his fun, after all he did bother to put in the effort to make the team. Yes his team makeup wasnt optimal, he had no kin to help him overcome his speed deficit, but I was still happy to help him out. We achieved success by playing like a team even when everything wasnt as perfect as I liked it, and we all left the TF successfully, with a buncha merits, and I made a few new friends. " |
To the OP:
I'm sorry to hear that you got kicked from the team, but to be frank, I can't abide people like you on any task force that I run, especially if you were the last place (to make up numbers) amongst a group of friends.
It sounds like that tank had never run the ISF before, so it's his first time. Some people enjoy seeing the content, enjoying the missions, and taking their time and having fun. Your approach was to rush ahead, ghost everything possible, and fill every possible role in the team on your own, as if you were soloing it. It's no wonder you got kicked when the final straw was that you went ahead and tried to solo the only thing the team leader cared about.
Have a little empathy and think about what the whole team wants, instead of crying on the forums when your selfish behaviour gets you what, imo, you completely deserve
Edit: Team Soloers may be a bit of a pet peeve of mine
If it had been me, I would have said "There you go. tank him." He either would have, and I'd get to look like a contributing, effective player, who is also considerate OR he would have fallen on his face because (as his activity throughout the TF displayed) his ability may have been suspect. If the latter, then I would have gotten to leap in and save the TF and look like a contributing, effective player who got to be the hero.
He should have said something before using the hook so fast, no doubt there, so -10 player points for him.
On the other hand, -5 player points to you for jumping in on Rommy at the end when you knew the deal.
Largo is unaminously voted Chyll's Favorite Player of the Day.
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I would have let OP get squashed and then ROFL.
I'm kinda in the middle here. There are a few points I'd like to bring up.
If the scrapper can handle himself and accepts responsibility for his actions, let him do his own thing.
People will follow the leader. If you have the star and you want to be a leader, act like it. If you say "Whatever, just let me tank rommie." you have given up your role as leader. People follow the one who actually leads.
I can understand why the tanker was pissed. He wanted one time to shine, and he was denied. This does not excuse him from overreacting by kicking. Standard practice is a polite tell, then a public warning, then *vote* before kick. What if the team needs him (which they apparently did)? The tank, by way of ego bruise, ruined everyone's evening.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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The OP had asked for any objections before running ahead on his own with fair warning. Some people may take offense or bruise their ego when a Scrapper is holding the teams hand throughout the mission. Sounds like a 12 year old who was playin' the Stone/ role as it probably would have taken 2 1/2 hours going at his pace.|
Originally Posted by Xemulas
Props to this.
To the OP: I'm sorry to hear that you got kicked from the team, but to be frank, I can't abide people like you on any task force that I run, especially if you were the last place (to make up numbers) amongst a group of friends. It sounds like that tank had never run the ISF before, so it's his first time. Some people enjoy seeing the content, enjoying the missions, and taking their time and having fun. Your approach was to rush ahead, ghost everything possible, and fill every possible role in the team on your own, as if you were soloing it. It's no wonder you got kicked when the final straw was that you went ahead and tried to solo the only thing the team leader cared about. Have a little empathy and think about what the whole team wants, instead of crying on the forums when your selfish behaviour gets you what, imo, you completely deserve Edit: Team Soloers may be a bit of a pet peeve of mine |
For a Stone/ to wonder if they can tank Romi is pretty laughable when they forget that they need to tank for the team, as well.
I don't really see what the problem is with a scrapper running in first. I play my scrapper like that, and every time I play my tank I'm expecting to race to the spawns against scrappers in the team. I don't mind it at all if I have seen the scrapper's performance and know they can survive it. If, however, the scrapper charges first and dies every other spawn I'd tell them to stop. It doesn't bother my tanking ego at all to see a scrapper go in first, I think it's actually fun racing against a scrapper on a tank.
Maybe it might have an effect that I build my scrappers and tankers similarly, both ATs having enough offense to take out a spawn solo and enough defense to keep up fighting for as long as needed. The tanks are a little sturdier while the scrappers generally finish the spawns faster.
On the other hand, if the tanker had specifically pointed out his wish to tank Rommy I can understand his frustration at the situation at hand, but I do also think kicking you without a warning was a bit extreme.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Quote:
Just like team leaders that enforce boredom are a pet peeve of mine.
| Edit: Team Soloers may be a bit of a pet peeve of mine |
Be well, people of CoH.
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Excuse me, but who wasn't being the team player here? The scrapper that can handle his own? Or perhaps the tank with "star-syndrome"?|
Originally Posted by Largo
Heres what I read:
"I ran ahead and I tanked this and then I ran ahead and I tanked that, and then I gathered these and I tanked them, and then I went on and I tanked this. Yes there were team deaths but they weren't my fault. I obviously never died. Then I saw Romi and I tanked him, then I was kicked, man was I suprised" How about this next time? "I am a team player. I help achieve team goals, in a way we agree on, so that we all have fun. I enjoy helping other players, rescue teammates in trouble, hate it when anyone dies. I was with a team leader that was much slower than I enjoy. But I still wanted him to have his fun, after all he did bother to put in the effort to make the team. Yes his team makeup wasnt optimal, he had no kin to help him overcome his speed deficit, but I was still happy to help him out. We achieved success by playing like a team even when everything wasnt as perfect as I liked it, and we all left the TF successfully, with a buncha merits, and I made a few new friends. " |
I'd like to think the tank was the team "star-holder," very much not the team leader. I believe he gave up his leader role when he told Pine to do what he wanted. He further enforced this as he continued to allow everyone to follow Pine while he never spoke through the entire TF.
People follow aptitude and they follow people who lead. If you have "taken charge" and there are no complaints, it's likely that you are regarded as the leader by everyone in the group.
This is clearly a case of a subpar tank with an overly-bruised ego and an inability to cope with it.
The entire team suffered because of his rash decision to kick Pine. Again I ask, who wasn't being a team player?
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
It is true that that a lot of non scrappers don't agree with the gun-ho attitude most scrappers have. It is also true that the team leader did say he wanted to tank romi. With that being said, he should have:
1. Sent the OP a tell reminding him of this before the last mission started.
2. Said something of the matter when it was time to plan out what tactic to use on romi.
3. Told the OP to fall back after he finished herding the 2nd side platform.
That would have been 3 mentions of what he wanted to do in the last mission. After that, if the OP still went in first, he would have been well within his right to kick him. There was a lot going on between the one time the leader mentioned all he wanted to do was tank romi and the time the OP was kicked. Regardless of how gun-ho he was, he didn't deserve to be kicked. To me, this was as pointless of a kick as kicking people in the middle of a mission because of some power they didn't pick up.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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Then I guess it's each to their own on what they enjoy the most? A banter full team taking it at a pace that suits them (heck, I've been playing with the same collective of people for years now, I know what I, and they, enjoy). Or a fast, rushed team, because heaven fobid you spend any more time in the TF than is absolutely necessary.|
Originally Posted by BillZBubba
Just like team leaders that enforce boredom are a pet peeve of mine.
|
It saddens me that taking things a bit slower for everyone's sake and 'boredom' are synonymous in your eyes.
@TracEnding: Yes, I didn't factor in the fact that he asked, which is fair enough. If the rest of the team didn't say "Well actually, we don't want this ghosted thanks", then i've no right to get my underwear in a twist on their behalf, I apologise.
Quote:
How about the third option? A banter filled team that takes its time while the scrapper is off enjoying all the slaughter/banter he can handle?|
Originally Posted by Xemulas
Then I guess it's each to their own on what they enjoy the most? A banter full team taking it at a pace that suits them (heck, I've been playing with the same collective of people for years now, I know what I, and they, enjoy). Or a fast, rushed team, because heaven fobid you spend any more time in the TF than is absolutely necessary.
It saddens me that taking things a bit slower for everyone's sake and 'boredom' are synonymous in your eyes. @TracEnding: Yes, I didn't factor in the fact that he asked, which is fair enough. If the rest of the team didn't say "Well actually, we don't want this ghosted thanks", then i've no right to get my underwear in a twist on their behalf, I apologise. |
Why do so many players feel it necessary to keep their scrappers on a leash?
EDIT: One of the primary reasons I solo so often is that I have heard one too many times "you're on a team, stay with the team."
Why should I? The squishies have a tank protecting them. The tank has squshies buffing them. Why should I sit there with the team when I could be off enjoying the game AND helping the team clear the map at the same time?
Why should I lessen my gameplay enjoyment because some twit thinks every mission should be done holding each others' hands while skipping through the mission smelling every daisy on the way?
I play scrappers because they excel at self-sufficiency and slaughter. If you don't want that on your teams, don't invite them.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Ooh ooh! *raises hand* I can answer that one!|
Originally Posted by BillZBubba
How about the third option? A banter filled team that takes its time while the scrapper is off enjoying all the slaughter/banter he can handle?
Why do so many players feel it necessary to keep their scrappers on a leash? |
Scrapper envy.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Well if all he asked was to tank Rom you shoulda let him.
I, too, saw the kick coming.
Quote:
I'm not saying I didn't see it coming, but only because I have absolutely no faith in humanity.|
Originally Posted by Bookkeeper_Jay
Well if all he asked was to tank Rom you shoulda let him.
I, too, saw the kick coming. |
ITF usually takes how long? Maybe in that amount of time, a single mention of "let me tank romy" could have been forgotten? Especially considering that our perhaps less than friendly scrapper missed the comment in the first place? Doubly so when by the second mission the team is clearly following the scrapper as though he were the leader and the "star" doesn't say a word to establish his role?
My point I keep driving is this: If you want to be the leader, then lead the team!
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
You have given me an idea for the name of my next scrapper. "Pit off the chain" lol
|
Originally Posted by BillZBubba
How about the third option? A banter filled team that takes its time while the scrapper is off enjoying all the slaughter/banter he can handle?
Why do so many players feel it necessary to keep their scrappers on a leash? . |
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
I see plenty of fault on both sides. Tank shouldn't have kicked the OP, but the OP shouldn't have started the Rom fight.
To some ppl, the whole experience of tanking starts w/the alpha. Hell, to some, that's the most important part (tho obviously not in an AV fight).
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Quote:
Points to sig.
|
Originally Posted by DechsKaison
Ooh ooh! *raises hand* I can answer that one!
Scrapper envy. |
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
The tank was probably PL'd and bad.
If he didn't build for +movement and/or bring a kin, he was carried the entire TF so he could "omg, tank the last boss".
I have two level 50 tanks, both of them leveled the hard way - tanking for pugs. I don't have a stoner because at the time they didn't have much way to tank the way it should be done - leading the team.
Good tanks maintain situational awareness of what's going on around them, they know their limits, and they push them without overextending and requiring someone to save them. When I tank on my ice or my invul, I jump into the spawn, taunt, spread aggro with punchvoke, and make sure everything is on me like glue. As soon as the majority of mobs are down, I will use my aoe controls (energy absorb on my ice to drain endurance or whirling axe on my inv/axe to knock mobs down) and move onto the next spawn.
The tank's job, in the shiny new world where the controllers are defense capped, the scrappers are tanks, and blasters are gods of destruction, is not only to keep everyone safe. It's to keep the team MOVING.
When I tank on my invul, the mobs are grouped and clustered for the damage dealers to destroy. By the time they have finished with that mob, I am in the middle of the next pack, taunting and laying down gauntlet for them to kill the next spawn. I don't stick around for the bad empathy defender who feels the need to spam "GATHER FOR RA OR YOU'LL MISS OUT AND BE SORRY" every 90 seconds. If people need RA's then they'll wait around for him. I don't need them, so I'm in the next pack of mobs prepping them for destruction.
Like a poster said, scrapper envy is a dangerous thing. So is tank ego. Realize that you're not the only invincible person out there anymore and let people push their limits. Good tanks will be there to save them if they need it.
Sounds like you ran into one of the less good tanks, OP. He doesn't represent all of them, so don't feel bad about doing your job. Keep flipping out and killing things. I'd far rather be on a team full of BillZ's than a team obsessed with "not dying". It's way more fun, and if the crazy IO'd SR wants to charge into a mob without me and shockwave, more power to him. Taunt lasts a long time, and if he bites it, so what? The defender probably has veng =P
The tank was wrong for kicking you without warning.
You were wrong for tanking the one thing the other player wanted to tank.
Let's also not forget, we're hearing the OP's spin on the run.
I'm sure if the tank were to replay the events it would sound a bit different.
Quote:
This basically sums it up. |
Originally Posted by BillZBubba
One of the primary reasons I solo so often is that I have heard one too many times "you're on a team, stay with the team."
Why should I? The squishies have a tank protecting them. The tank has squshies buffing them. Why should I sit there with the team when I could be off enjoying the game AND helping the team clear the map at the same time? Why should I lessen my gameplay enjoyment because some twit thinks every mission should be done holding each others' hands while skipping through the mission smelling every daisy on the way? I play scrappers because they excel at self-sufficiency and slaughter. If you don't want that on your teams, don't invite them. |
IF the risk level is so low that my scrapper can single handedly take care of the mobs, why should I slow down? There isn't a good reason for that. After all, I'm just speeding up the process of completing the mission. IF, on the other hand, the risk level is sufficiently high, I will stay with the team to lessen the risk of a defeat, mine or someone else's.
Am I a bad team player?
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Quick Reply.
Just adding in my 2 cents.
While I can understand the OP's curiosity of how well he/she could do against Rommie and his furrie trio, it sounds like the Tank was new to this game (the first sign was that he/she was a Stone Tank without TP [I assume he/she didn't have TP as you said he/she moved slowly]. Second sign was that he/she went after some random minions instead of drawing the attention of the AVs. This shows he/she probably hadn't dealt with AVs before and didn't know their threat level/power). In all fairness, he/she probably thought A. The OP actually could take down the AVs since he/she handled everything else in stride; And B. Thought kicking was an easier and faster method of saying 'I wanted to tank Rommie' than taking the time to type it out while in the middle of battle.
In any case, both parties acted understandably and instead of posting your thoughts here.... it probably would have been better to send a tell later to talk it out.
The whole point of him setting up a team to do the TF was to know what it was like to Tank Rom and the Nictus. The thought of doing the whole thing for nothing obviously ticked him off.
If he made a bargain with you like carry on but I want to tank Rommie and you broke it then that adds to it.
"The leader (stone tank) said it was fine, all he wanted to do was tank Rom."