All he wanted to do was let Rommie pound on him...
And you took that away from him!
Perhaps his whole family was watching behind him do great acts of Truth, and All that is Good. A rite to become a Man, by tanking Romulus in a video game.
Then, the Scrapper appeared. The Scrapper stole the glory to Manhood, and all of the family cried tears of Blazing Shame. And will still cry, for a thousand years. Because of the Scrapper.
... Unless the sacred ritual of pressing the Kick-button is commenced, which will cure everything like the beak of the golden phoenix with emerald eyes from the heavenly moors.
Quote:
Epic post.
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Originally Posted by Ethric
All he wanted to do was let Rommie pound on him...
And you took that away from him! Perhaps his whole family was watching behind him do great acts of Truth, and All that is Good. A rite to become a Man, by tanking Romulus in a video game. Then, the Scrapper appeared. The Scrapper stole the glory to Manhood, and all of the family cried tears of Blazing Shame. And will still cry, for a thousand years. Because of the Scrapper. ... Unless the sacred ritual of pressing the Kick-button is commenced, which will cure everything like the beak of the golden phoenix with emerald eyes from the heavenly moors. |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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I'll keep that in mind
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Originally Posted by BillZBubba
I play scrappers because they excel at self-sufficiency and slaughter. If you don't want the way I play as if 7 other people aren't there on your teams, don't invite me.
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Quote:
What you should keep in mind is the fact that your alteration of my quote has a completely different meaning that what I posted. Since your response was not in jest, this means that you are incapable of defending your position and instead was forced into becoming a liar by misrepresenting my position in order to make a failed attempt at covering up your failure to make a reasoned response.|
Originally Posted by Xemulas
I'll keep that in mind
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I award you no points and your mother is now ashamed of you.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Probably, that wouldn't surprise me at all.|
Originally Posted by BillZBubba
Since your response was not in jest, this means that you are incapable of defending your position and instead was forced into becoming a liar by misrepresenting my position in order to make a failed attempt at covering up your failure to make a reasoned response.
I award you no points and your mother is now ashamed of you. |
Here's a reasoned response, instead of a hot-headed snipe, which I apologise for.
Everyone plays their characters differently, and all team dynamics work differently. I am a a Villain player 95% of the time. Co-op task forces obviously create opportunities for my regular, habitual villain teams to come into contact with hero ATs (We've all got them, mind, we're not allergic to heroes). This, more often than not, results in interaction with scrappers, in the same was as some brutes, who consider it acceptable to launch ahead and aggro whatever they like regardless of what the body of the team is doing.
Most of the time, the teams are "tank"less, maybe the odd brute, but no tank is present, I find them to be the most redundant archetype. The rule of "Squishies have Daddy Tank" is flawed, as not every team runs as you described: not every team can facilitate and support to full efficiency, a rogue melee AT.
A good friend of mine I met in game plays mostly scrappers, and I have to say Bill, he is your antithesis. Don't get me wrong, he'll step up to the oche and solo a mob if the situation requires it, but he is nothing short of an amazing scrapper, in the way we have come to define good scrapping. Dishing out damage, never biting the dust, and most importantly, guarding and protecting the others on the team, always aware of what is going on.
Thus a point emerges: my opinion, voiced in reaction to the OPs rather warped view of his own actions, was constructed from my presumption that he acted like many of the scrappers/brutes I have politely asked to refrain from doing: attempting to play in ignorance of the team, as if they were soloing.
I'm not going to end on any cutting general remark, but I will say that certain people have certain expectations and each find some things acceptable that others don't. I'd advise the OP to be aware of that
Quote:
Maybe I missed it, but where did BillZBubba ask for support?
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Originally Posted by Xemulas
Everyone plays their characters differently, and all team dynamics work differently. I am a a Villain player 95% of the time. Co-op task forces obviously create opportunities for my regular, habitual villain teams to come into contact with hero ATs (We've all got them, mind, we're not allergic to heroes). This, more often than not, results in interaction with scrappers, in the same was as some brutes, who consider it acceptable to launch ahead and aggro whatever they like regardless of what the body of the team is doing.
Most of the time, the teams are "tank"less, maybe the odd brute, but no tank is present, I find them to be the most redundant archetype. The rule of "Squishies have Daddy Tank" is flawed, as not every team runs as you described: not every team can facilitate and support to full efficiency, a rogue melee AT. |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I love tankers more than I do scrappers but I do love being unleashed and tanking AVs with Scrappers. I am a sinner.
Scrappers do what the hell they like (within sensible reason) but other members of the team are generally in my experience better off following and cooperating with the tanker.
Most scrappers will not have the AV for long, but I will say that they can momentarily compromise other members of the team depending on their threat level generated and the dynamics they're creating compared to what is needed and I will say.
Whoever the Tanker was, he was trying to learn and whoever the Scrapper is (the OP) possibly doesn't need to learn. I know I am a scrapper who has actually been guilty of what the OP has done but in hindsight I feel that I need to let Tankers learn and tank on their own terms more.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Perhaps I chose my wording poorly. My intention was to convey that the main body of the team at times cannot afford their scrappers to go and let loose their inner soloer in the middle of a task force.
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Originally Posted by DechsKaison
Maybe I missed it, but where did BillZBubba ask for support?
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Quote:
Alright, I'm with you here. If it's a group of squishies and a scrapper who leaves before the current mob is well within manageable size then there is a problem.|
Originally Posted by Xemulas
Perhaps I chose my wording poorly. My intention was to convey that the main body of the team at times cannot afford their scrappers to go and let loose their inner soloer in the middle of a task force.
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Generally though, if a scrapper goes off into solo "scrapperlock" mode, he's doing it because the spawn the group is currently mopping up is too boring. The group should be able to handle itself when there's only a few minions to deal with while the scrapper tries to get himself killed on the next spawn with three bosses.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Here's what the OP did:
They took err jerbs!
Quote:
Now that's a great post.|
Originally Posted by Xemulas
Probably, that wouldn't surprise me at all.
Here's a reasoned response, instead of a hot-headed snipe, which I apologise for. Everyone plays their characters differently, and all team dynamics work differently. I am a a Villain player 95% of the time. Co-op task forces obviously create opportunities for my regular, habitual villain teams to come into contact with hero ATs (We've all got them, mind, we're not allergic to heroes). This, more often than not, results in interaction with scrappers, in the same was as some brutes, who consider it acceptable to launch ahead and aggro whatever they like regardless of what the body of the team is doing. Most of the time, the teams are "tank"less, maybe the odd brute, but no tank is present, I find them to be the most redundant archetype. The rule of "Squishies have Daddy Tank" is flawed, as not every team runs as you described: not every team can facilitate and support to full efficiency, a rogue melee AT. A good friend of mine I met in game plays mostly scrappers, and I have to say Bill, he is your antithesis. Don't get me wrong, he'll step up to the oche and solo a mob if the situation requires it, but he is nothing short of an amazing scrapper, in the way we have come to define good scrapping. Dishing out damage, never biting the dust, and most importantly, guarding and protecting the others on the team, always aware of what is going on. Thus a point emerges: my opinion, voiced in reaction to the OPs rather warped view of his own actions, was constructed from my presumption that he acted like many of the scrappers/brutes I have politely asked to refrain from doing: attempting to play in ignorance of the team, as if they were soloing. I'm not going to end on any cutting general remark, but I will say that certain people have certain expectations and each find some things acceptable that others don't. I'd advise the OP to be aware of that |
Here's how I team:
Team goes from spawn to spawn. Everyone sticks pretty tightly together. Spawns are wiped out in seconds. Team moves on. I'll usually stay with this team.
Team has a tank. Tank wants to herd. I'll be on the next floor or at the other end of the map.
Team has an excess of control and debuffs. Team is completely safe at all times and destroying spawns at what they consider to be a comfortable clip. I'll be on to the next spawn as soon as the bosses are dealt with.
Team has a bunch of new players, or poor builds or on a difficulty too high for the team's ability to handle it. I'm with the team doing everything I can to keep them alive.
Yes, there is a time to stay with the team. There is a time to run off and have fun. More often than not, because this is not a difficult game with properly slotted characters of some skill level, the scrapper should be off killing whatever but close enough to get back to the team should the need arise.
Because of the people *I* generally run with (that being badgers who tend to know the game well and they know I'm a chaos bringer) I no longer have to think about it. Team's good? I'm free to kill. Things getting rough? I'm back with the team to pull them out of it or fall with them.
The scrapper that completely ignores his team is a bad scrapper. The player that constantly gripes at scrappers for doing what scrappers do best is a bad player.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Mainly I stayed out of this dicussion because you've pretty covered my position. I don't think I ever seen you state it so clearly and completely before now, which is saying a lot considering how thorough your post typically are. You've pretty much summed up my playstyle.
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Originally Posted by BillZBubba
Now that's a great post.
Here's how I team: Team goes from spawn to spawn. Everyone sticks pretty tightly together. Spawns are wiped out in seconds. Team moves on. I'll usually stay with this team. Team has a tank. Tank wants to herd. I'll be on the next floor or at the other end of the map. Team has an excess of control and debuffs. Team is completely safe at all times and destroying spawns at what they consider to be a comfortable clip. I'll be on to the next spawn as soon as the bosses are dealt with. Team has a bunch of new players, or poor builds or on a difficulty too high for the team's ability to handle it. I'm with the team doing everything I can to keep them alive. Yes, there is a time to stay with the team. There is a time to run off and have fun. More often than not, because this is not a difficult game with properly slotted characters of some skill level, the scrapper should be off killing whatever but close enough to get back to the team should the need arise. Because of the people *I* generally run with (that being badgers who tend to know the game well and they know I'm a chaos bringer) I no longer have to think about it. Team's good? I'm free to kill. Things getting rough? I'm back with the team to pull them out of it or fall with them. The scrapper that completely ignores his team is a bad scrapper. The player that constantly gripes at scrappers for doing what scrappers do best is a bad player. |
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Scrappers running back with their aggro cap crying "heal meh!!!" have got it wrong |
Originally Posted by BillZBubba
More often than not, because this is not a difficult game with properly slotted characters of some skill level, the scrapper should be off killing whatever but close enough to get back to the team should the need arise.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
That is the way I play. I say I run off a lot but that is if the team is good. If the team needs me I will be with the team.
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Originally Posted by BillZBubba
Now that's a great post.
Here's how I team: Team goes from spawn to spawn. Everyone sticks pretty tightly together. Spawns are wiped out in seconds. Team moves on. I'll usually stay with this team. Team has a tank. Tank wants to herd. I'll be on the next floor or at the other end of the map. Team has an excess of control and debuffs. Team is completely safe at all times and destroying spawns at what they consider to be a comfortable clip. I'll be on to the next spawn as soon as the bosses are dealt with. Team has a bunch of new players, or poor builds or on a difficulty too high for the team's ability to handle it. I'm with the team doing everything I can to keep them alive. Yes, there is a time to stay with the team. There is a time to run off and have fun. More often than not, because this is not a difficult game with properly slotted characters of some skill level, the scrapper should be off killing whatever but close enough to get back to the team should the need arise. Because of the people *I* generally run with (that being badgers who tend to know the game well and they know I'm a chaos bringer) I no longer have to think about it. Team's good? I'm free to kill. Things getting rough? I'm back with the team to pull them out of it or fall with them. The scrapper that completely ignores his team is a bad scrapper. The player that constantly gripes at scrappers for doing what scrappers do best is a bad player. Quote:
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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Absolutely true. That also falls under bad scrapper.|
Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
Scrappers running back with their aggro cap crying "heal meh!!!" have got it wrong
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A good scrapper dies laughing, hits the hospital and is back in the mission before the team realizes he's gone.
The better scrapper doesn't die.
A scrapper IS allowed to haul an aggro cap's worth of baddies back to the team when the team Wants him to. I'm often in this position on ITFs.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Are serious? There's heals in this game?
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Originally Posted by Shannon_EU
Scrappers running back with their aggro cap crying "heal meh!!!" have got it wrong
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I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
That might be the disconnect. Scrappers with BillZBubba's attitude but lacking his experience. I'm willing to bet there are more of the former and less of the latter.
I would like to hear from someone else on that team and the tank. We would find out if the rest of the team felt that the OP running off doing is own thing was ok with them or not. That answer will settle who is at fault. Also, find out the other teammates reactions of the kicking. In order to say if the OP was at any fault other then forgetting something that was said earlier on will be up to what the other players on that team have to say. From the info we have, the OPs playstyle wasn't a factor in the reason for the kick yet I see a lot of post putting that as part of the blame. If I remember right, the OP said no one objected to this. He just got caught up in scrapper lock and put his hands in the tank's cookie jar (charging romi before him) and was kicked for it. I still stand behind the points I made in my earlier post.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
my question was this where was said tank during the pull of the AV. You said he was slow so he could have been loading in still making his way to the center when you pulled...thus you took on the tanking role that he wanted. Honestly I can't blame him for kicking you a little extreme probably but then again he did make the request and you failed to be considerate enough to allow him the honors; however we all know a granite tank should never have a problem with any av.
Just a QR here:
Those who think that a scrapper's "most important" role is to guard and meatshield teammates need to find a brute or tank instead. They're better at holding aggro. Period.
Those who appreciate a scrapper as a self-sufficient powerhouse who, without need of team support, can accomplish team-sized objectives, at least have the right idea about what scrappers are and aren't good at.
Consider: a /Regen or /SR scrapper (no taunt aura) without Confront or Provoke (which are inferior to the tools available to Tanks and Brutes anyway), relatively light in AoE damage but devastating single-target damage, is much better used in the role of destroying Cysts and freeing Sybills than in the role of playing "poor man's tank" to the squishies and fending off ambushes.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BillZBubba
Absolutely true. That also falls under bad scrapper.
A good scrapper dies laughing, hits the hospital and is back in the mission before the team realizes he's gone. The better scrapper doesn't die. A scrapper IS allowed to haul an aggro cap's worth of baddies back to the team when the team Wants him to. I'm often in this position on ITFs. |
Your Claws/SR. I got one called Katalina on Defiant. I can tank all the AVs in and do the entire STF undefeated with her for an all scrapper team, but I would probably do that with any scrapper!
...or Tank cos I love Tanks more Tanks do it best
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
What the leader did was extreme, what you did was inconsiderate. You both were wrong, plain and simple.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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I agree with this, plain and simple.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
What the leader did was extreme, what you did was inconsiderate. You both were wrong, plain and simple.
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I got kicked of a farm once for killing stuff. The f/kin farmer was pissed that my spines/regen was killing stuff at a decent pace, I guess.
Its pretty much the same thing, if you go off and do their job, they get insecure. Even though you are benefiting everyone. Its the only problem with scrappers, we step on people's toes.
There are a lot of ways to do an ITF, and only a few of them are bad. I always ask before each mission what we're doing... usually a simple comment like "are we skipping the ambushes?" ... "are we pulling the generals?" "Shall we split up and hit the mission objectives?" I don't care what the answer is, as long as I know it, then I'll excecute the plan with extreme violence and enjoyment.
Even if the team runs together regularly, it helps to have a brief 1 line of communication before the mission to know what the plan is.
I'd never kick someone who didn't follow the plan, but I can see the tank's point of view. He hadn't done an ITF before, so he's new to the end game... he started the TF probably just so that he COULD tank Rommie and see if his tank had that ability (of course it does, but it's new to him, remember)... having someone else jump rommie first might have ruined something he'd been planning for some time.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.