Mandatory Arc

[ QUOTE ]
Might be better if the MA contact only opened when you entered an MA building for the first time so as to not draw new players into the building.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think they'd still get drawn in by the team requests - if you see "AE team looking for two more", even if you don't know what AE stands for, it's still obviously a team invite, and if you're looking to team, you might be quite likely to join, especially as most of the Broadcast chat you would be seeing would also be similar requests.

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@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

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What HA said, let us place contacts in the city.
One way to stop them from being slightly daft (blocking roads, etc) would be that they are only visible to the Team who are playing the arc?

Mind you, the mechanics to place them round and about would probably be horrible to write...
And agreed to waht Evils said.

[/ QUOTE ]

It'd probably be better if the game placed them, otherwise they'd all be just outside the MA building

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[ QUOTE ]
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Might be better if the MA contact only opened when you entered an MA building for the first time so as to not draw new players into the building.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think they'd still get drawn in by the team requests - if you see "AE team looking for two more", even if you don't know what AE stands for, it's still obviously a team invite, and if you're looking to team, you might be quite likely to join, especially as most of the Broadcast chat you would be seeing would also be similar requests.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alas (as it shoots the idea down completely) you are very right

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Hmm Block Broadcasts from leaving the MA building...
Make all outgoing broadcasts MA local chat,
Yet allow zone broadcasts into the MA.

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It's amazing how many complex ways people are trying to think up to snafu teams farming MA arcs. Most amazing as they all seem to be more undesirable than the perceived problem of MA farming or they have obvious holes that make them a waste of time.

[ QUOTE ]

Might be better if the MA contact only opened when you entered an MA building for the first time so as to not draw new players into the building.


[/ QUOTE ]
As GG pointed out, this (or any limit to starting MA arcs yourself) would still leave you open to invites to MA farming teams and so is pointless by itself. It also, possibly, starts acting contrary to the devs wish to make 1-50 in MA a possible course for charcaters.

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Block Broadcasts from leaving the MA building...


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OMG - you mean farm teams LFM would need to step outside the building for 20 seconds to send a broadcast when the team loses a member? Sounds like a waste of time implementing this when it would be so easy to work around.

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Another option would be to have to go to a real contact not the hologram, at least then there'd be some travel time. At the moment with no travel time why have travel powers? Plus lack of travel means you can get through far more MA missions in a night than you can normal missions and with no risk, making them that much more attractive.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'd love the opportunity to place contacts outside the MA - but forcing just to get people out of the MA building it is, IMO, a ridiculous idea. It sounds like you want to get people having to physically leave the MA building and cross the city to contact X in zone X just so that they have to leave the MA building and visit contact X in zone X. You're effectively suggesting that all MA arcs need to include lots of the type of running to/from contacts that many players dislike in CoH.

If the rewards are balanced properly, and farming made less attractive by altering the mechanisms that allow farms with a skewed risk/reward ratio, then running MA arcs should get you about the same reward as running regular missions - i.e. the mission reward would be slightly lower than regular missions to allow for the absence of travel time.

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how about a mandatory arc?


[/ QUOTE ]
No.
How about no mandatory arcs.
Heck - it's bad enough that the CoV tutorial is mandatory for the base 5 villain ATs.

I'm all for players experiencing content outside of MA. I don't particularly like meeting lvl50s who seem to be very opinionated yet don't know the basics of the game. But forcing all players to do certain arcs is not a good way to get people really doing content outside of MA in a meaningful way.

You know what would happen if you placed a mandatory arc every 10th level?

People would play however they play now (whether in MA or elsewhere) and then they'd hit the mandatory arc and would all be pee'd of by being forced to do this arc and would begrudgingly go and blitz the arc as fast as they could and then return to playing how they want to play (and how they were playing before the mandatory arc).

And what if you have 3 missions open? Do you stop gaining xp/rewards?

---

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
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Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

[ QUOTE ]
Heck - it's bad enough that the CoV tutorial is mandatory for the base 5 villain ATs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it isn't, when you create a character and get the 'Enter tutorial zone?' question, select NO and you will then get asked which contact you want to go to in Mercy 'Kalinda' or 'Burke'...

Notes:

1. The same works heroside except for contacts being 'Ms Liberty (Atlas)' and 'Back Alley Brawler (Galaxy)'

2. It is recommended that Peacebringers start in Atlas and Warshades start in Galaxy as that is the location of their starting contacts.

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[ QUOTE ]
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Heck - it's bad enough that the CoV tutorial is mandatory for the base 5 villain ATs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it isn't, when you create a character and get the 'Enter tutorial zone?' question, select NO and you will then get asked which contact you want to go to in Mercy 'Kalinda' or 'Burke'...

Notes:

1. The same works heroside except for contacts being 'Ms Liberty (Atlas)' and 'Back Alley Brawler (Galaxy)'

2. It is recommended that Peacebringers start in Atlas and Warshades start in Galaxy as that is the location of their starting contacts.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's not the same.
Heroes have 10 starting CONTACTS, not trainers. 1 for each origin, in Atlas and in Galaxy. Thats not including HEATs, who get a contact each.

Villains, however, get Kalinda or Burke. Thats IT, whatever origina you are. In one zone. Oh, and the VEAT contact, who is the same for both.

That still hacks me off, hence why I slaughter who streets and then head to Oakes.

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I think people should be able to play how they want end of.

But even from my pro farming point of view, it has to be said why on earth did they create a mechanic that lets 7 low levels be sk'd into xp range, did anyone really see any other outcome, devs included?

Just change that, then the precious MA will be where the purists want, empty of farmers, in fact empty full stop.

You dont need complicated long winded schemes to stop farming and PL'ing, you just need to remove the auto sk.

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Oh you meant the limited Arachnos/Mercenary initial missions.

The tutorial is actually Breakout.

Yeah I get what you mean, I would be nice if they modified the initial mercy contacts to give different missions depending on your villains AT/Origin.

Protestor riot need corrupting...
Snakes need smashing out of town... (Brute/MM)
Clear out a base and repair it's equipment... (Tech origin)

That sort of thing, I don't mind the limited contacts in the begining but AT/Origin specific missions from them would help.

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[ QUOTE ]

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Another option would be to have to go to a real contact not the hologram, at least then there'd be some travel time. At the moment with no travel time why have travel powers? Plus lack of travel means you can get through far more MA missions in a night than you can normal missions and with no risk, making them that much more attractive.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'd love the opportunity to place contacts outside the MA - but forcing just to get people out of the MA building it is, IMO, a ridiculous idea. It sounds like you want to get people having to physically leave the MA building and cross the city to contact X in zone X just so that they have to leave the MA building and visit contact X in zone X. You're effectively suggesting that all MA arcs need to include lots of the type of running to/from contacts that many players dislike in CoH.

If the rewards are balanced properly, and farming made less attractive by altering the mechanisms that allow farms with a skewed risk/reward ratio, then running MA arcs should get you about the same reward as running regular missions - i.e. the mission reward would be slightly lower than regular missions to allow for the absence of travel time.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Dave we are saying the same thing. My suggestion was a way of slowing down how much XP MAing players can earn by making them travel.

However your solution works too, reduce the rewards to take into account zero travel time. Though it does make travel power redundent and probably makes MA only alts more powerful because of that (as they can take other powers). So you'd have to reduce the rewards further still to take that into account IMO.

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Just drop INF/PREST from the MA...

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Just drop INF/PREST from the MA...

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That will cause it to be abandoned more-or-less completely. Sure, people do go for the story content but at the same time people like to see progress. And what about those who have exhausted their contacts and dread repeatable/radio mishs? They will probably use the MA for new content but won't get prestige for their SG. As someone who runs a one-man SG, Coolio you should see the problem in this.

Removing the auto-sk is the solution IMO. It makes people have to far the old way instead of just getting auto-sk'd, thus slowing it down a bit.

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Just drop INF/PREST from the MA...

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That will cause it to be abandoned more-or-less completely. Sure, people do go for the story content but at the same time people like to see progress. And what about those who have exhausted their contacts and dread repeatable/radio mishs? They will probably use the MA for new content but won't get prestige for their SG. As someone who runs a one-man SG, Coolio you should see the problem in this.

Removing the auto-sk is the solution IMO. It makes people have to far the old way instead of just getting auto-sk'd, thus slowing it down a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd still be making progress (ie XP) and tickets. So you'd still be progressing, I'd be happy to use the MA still if Inf was taken out of it.

Becoming more Influencal or Infamous for playing Dr Aeons fun-time-pretendy-games doesn't make sense to be at all.

Although in-game it looks like Aeon and Creys scheme to divert the attention of a vast number of Heroes attentions worked pretty damn well. God knows what sort of state Bricks and Founders are in now.

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Becoming more Influencal or Infamous for playing Dr Aeons fun-time-pretendy-games doesn't make sense to be at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
But then nor does trading Inf on an Auction system. Or being able to give it to friends.

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[ QUOTE ]
Just drop INF/PREST from the MA...

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was mostly farmed for XP and drops? I think the ability to get a 50 in a few hours is the big draw, not the phat lewt.

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@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Becoming more Influencal or Infamous for playing Dr Aeons fun-time-pretendy-games doesn't make sense to be at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
But then nor does trading Inf on an Auction system. Or being able to give it to friends.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bah, you and your logical extensions of people's arguments. However I'll attempt to counter with the use of extremely tenuous counter-points & examples:

The trading thing is obviously "Hey, Superdude was hanging around with Beetleman today. That Beetleman sure is cool"

And the AH thing is "Oh hello Superdude, why yes we do have some [uber recipe]s around, was going to give it to Beetleman but you're far more famous so here you go"

*watches his examples stretched waaaay beyond breaking point*

Run for your lives. She's gonna blow!

---

Ok...
Just drop the following from the MA:
1. Inf. / Prestige (It is a training simulator)
2. Salvage / Recipe Drops (Players get MA tickets)

Additionally they could limit the MA to a maximum gain of five levels, prior to gaining at least one in the city/missions. (This would only allow an additional single level in the MA though.)

Example for the above:
Level 16 player enters AE
Trains up to level 21 (AE count +5)
Has to go and play the normal game for at least one level... 22 (AE count now +4)
Now they can either:
a. Gain four more levels outside the MA (AE count 0)
b. Gain another level via the MA (AE count +5)

Capping the AE count won't stop them playing in the MA but would stop them gaining any Exp from it.

This way a player can still reach Level 50 in the MA, but they are persuaded to partake of the real game too.

This would also be useful to all players at times when they have to level solo too.

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[ QUOTE ]


This way a player can still reach Level 50 in the MA, but they are persuaded to partake of the real game too.


[/ QUOTE ]

By Persuaded you mean forced ?

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[ QUOTE ]
Ok...
Just drop the following from the MA:
1. Inf. / Prestige (It is a training simulator)
2. Salvage / Recipe Drops (Players get MA tickets)

Additionally they could limit the MA to a maximum gain of five levels, prior to gaining at least one in the city/missions. (This would only allow an additional single level in the MA though.)

Example for the above:
Level 16 player enters AE
Trains up to level 21 (AE count +5)
Has to go and play the normal game for at least one level... 22 (AE count now +4)
Now they can either:
a. Gain four more levels outside the MA (AE count 0)
b. Gain another level via the MA (AE count +5)

Capping the AE count won't stop them playing in the MA but would stop them gaining any Exp from it.

This way a player can still reach Level 50 in the MA, but they are persuaded to partake of the real game too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then what happens to the poor sods that already have 20 level 50s and just want to level a char up quick to see what its like?

The ones who REALLY are sick of the same content getting replayed for the 1000th time?

I honestly think when a game reaches this age a liberal look at things is needed, not a plan to alienate players.

What they want to do is hang on to what they got, not worry about huge numbers of new players, because there aint going to be any huge numbers of new players.

And it will at least keep the MA in use instead of it becoming another waste of time dead zone, which will happen if too many more restrictions get put on it.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just drop INF/PREST from the MA...

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was mostly farmed for XP and drops? I think the ability to get a 50 in a few hours is the big draw, not the phat lewt.

[/ QUOTE ]

The devs made the biggest mistake in advertizing the 1-50 levelling possible in just MA. It is a virtual surrounding.

Half all xp in MA, remove the buildings in the starting zones and remove the auto excamplar. Also... don't allow more then 5 allies using the same powersets in one mission. It will not be needed for story progressing. And the forcefield cocoons will be gone instantly.

Sorry farmers...

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Another option would be to have to go to a real contact not the hologram, at least then there'd be some travel time. At the moment with no travel time why have travel powers? Plus lack of travel means you can get through far more MA missions in a night than you can normal missions and with no risk, making them that much more attractive.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'd love the opportunity to place contacts outside the MA - but forcing just to get people out of the MA building it is, IMO, a ridiculous idea. It sounds like you want to get people having to physically leave the MA building and cross the city to contact X in zone X just so that they have to leave the MA building and visit contact X in zone X. You're effectively suggesting that all MA arcs need to include lots of the type of running to/from contacts that many players dislike in CoH.

If the rewards are balanced properly, and farming made less attractive by altering the mechanisms that allow farms with a skewed risk/reward ratio, then running MA arcs should get you about the same reward as running regular missions - i.e. the mission reward would be slightly lower than regular missions to allow for the absence of travel time.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Dave we are saying the same thing. My suggestion was a way of slowing down how much XP MAing players can earn by making them travel.

However your solution works too, reduce the rewards to take into account zero travel time. Though it does make travel power redundent and probably makes MA only alts more powerful because of that (as they can take other powers). So you'd have to reduce the rewards further still to take that into account IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]
Equates to about the same thing xp-wise - but people get somewhat miffed by all the pointless running about in several CoH arcs, so I objected to the suggestion that running about should be imposed upon all MA arcs.

As it stands, with paper/radio missions, the abundance of travel/tp temps and TF specialists who are speedy ghosts with tp friend there is already little need for a travel power for many characters.

The devs have shown many times that they try to balance various activities using a fairly straightforward activity A gets X rewards per hour (e.g. TF/SF is, iirc, 20 merits per hour). I'd hope that normal dev-created missions, MA arcs and paper missions could all be adjusted to provide similar rewards per hour for sustained periods (so that travel time, or lack of, was taken into account).

BTW - if you wanted to seriously reduce rewards to 'compensate' for not needing a travel power (and for having extra powerpicks in their stead) then:
* Do you think superspeeders should get a reward penalty for being able to spend less time between missions? (And they even get to pick a useful prerequisite in hasten!)
* Should 60 (?) month vets who take a travel power without a prerequisite get a penalty for having that 1 extra powerpick available to them?

---

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

It,s a thing that is always going to be around,so this thread is once again just for letting off steam about somthing some people do not like about the game,if I see someone asking where do I go for this or to get that if possible I will check out thier level if they are high I will check to see what badges they have if its all MA I ignore the request,I do not farm or pl myself but will not say others shouldn,t do it, but if they want to know where things are in the game they will have to find out for themselves,this is just my own opinon as sometimes even after 3 years of playing I sometimes ask for help about something and if people check me out for the same reasons I have given they will see very few MA badges as I have tried MA but find it very hard to find an arc that is not a farm. but I would hate to be forced to play an arc just to be able to move up a level.

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[ QUOTE ]
Ok...
Just drop the following from the MA:
1. Inf. / Prestige (It is a training simulator)
2. Salvage / Recipe Drops (Players get MA tickets)

Additionally they could limit the MA to a maximum gain of five levels, prior to gaining at least one in the city/missions. (This would only allow an additional single level in the MA though.)

Example for the above:
Level 16 player enters AE
Trains up to level 21 (AE count +5)
Has to go and play the normal game for at least one level... 22 (AE count now +4)
Now they can either:
a. Gain four more levels outside the MA (AE count 0)
b. Gain another level via the MA (AE count +5)

Capping the AE count won't stop them playing in the MA but would stop them gaining any Exp from it.

This way a player can still reach Level 50 in the MA, but they are persuaded to partake of the real game too.

This would also be useful to all players at times when they have to level solo too.

[/ QUOTE ]
Now a sarcastic poster may be inclined to agree with you. Luckily I'm not going to use sarcasm here, but would just ask:
* How much development time do you expect on this?
* Is this really the simplest, most elegant solution to the perceived problem that you can envisage?

And beyond that: Why do you feel a need to force your play style upon others?

I'd object to any system telling me that every X levels I need to change what I'm doing and do some mandatory activity.

---

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

[ QUOTE ]
In order to combat PLing and farming further, how about a mandatory arc?

Of course there are already tailor/cape/aura missions, but these are not mandatory. But I was thinking more along the lines of an arc or mission that must be completed in order to attain a certain level. This would ensure that players have to experience some of the game outside of MA.

[/ QUOTE ]
The best ways to combat any perceived PLing/farming within MA are:
[*] Run your own non-MA teams.
If the game is still good outside MA then you'll gain converts by showing them the good time and fun that's to be had.
[*] New and absorbing/exciting/unusual dev-content at a variety of levels.
If there's much more fun/exciting things to do outside MA then even the long-timers who just want to blitz a few levels may be more inclined to play the dev-content than any MA farm.

Any limits/penalties/mandatory arcs imposed upon players aren't going to make someone who wants to play MA farms stop playing them - they'll just annoy them and act as an irritant that could help drive them from the game.

Fine if that's your objective - but if it's to get more players experiencing non-MA content you're better running teams doing non-MA content. Or if it's just to avoid players doing nothing but MA farms run your own MA teams that don't do farms.

Enough people object to this perceived problem that I'm fairly sure you'd have a succesful team going before long. Invite a few newbies and have a fun time and that'll do more good than any amount of upset and suggestions on the forums.

---

By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
Serious: To Save A Single World (#83744) * Marketing Opportunity (#83747)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In order to combat PLing and farming further, how about a mandatory arc?

Of course there are already tailor/cape/aura missions, but these are not mandatory. But I was thinking more along the lines of an arc or mission that must be completed in order to attain a certain level. This would ensure that players have to experience some of the game outside of MA.

[/ QUOTE ]
The best ways to combat any perceived PLing/farming within MA are:
[*] Run your own non-MA teams.
If the game is still good outside MA then you'll gain converts by showing them the good time and fun that's to be had.
[*] New and absorbing/exciting/unusual dev-content at a variety of levels.
If there's much more fun/exciting things to do outside MA then even the long-timers who just want to blitz a few levels may be more inclined to play the dev-content than any MA farm.

Any limits/penalties/mandatory arcs imposed upon players aren't going to make someone who wants to play MA farms stop playing them - they'll just annoy them and act as an irritant that could help drive them from the game.

Fine if that's your objective - but if it's to get more players experiencing non-MA content you're better running teams doing non-MA content. Or if it's just to avoid players doing nothing but MA farms run your own MA teams that don't do farms.

Enough people object to this perceived problem that I'm fairly sure you'd have a succesful team going before long. Invite a few newbies and have a fun time and that'll do more good than any amount of upset and suggestions on the forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

Top post, i agree with all that JD.

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