heh... when ever I hear the words "I'll scout" a deep sense of dread and forboding develops
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
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Oh, sure, there are ghosters and therte are those who think it's just running with Hide/SupInvis/Whatever and clicking 
Then again, there are blasters and tankers like that too, not to mention empaths
I rarely "ghost" TF's and SF's but I do wanna go the quickest way, because they still take a lot of time, especially when you're usually doing it with more or less "unknown" team members (Yeah, PuGs).
ITF is partially an example: I always ask someone to tp to the computer once the general is down because of the lag and in the first mission I concider it nice when the team don't aggro the EB so we don't have to fight through the nictus ambush. RSF is another example, the bugged hostage makes the first mission a nightmare unless you "ghost" a bit and once the big bot is down and we go in to the warehouse, it's nice to get through a 10 minute waste-of-time to get to the goodies. ...and yes, it's mostly because I've done'em so friggin many times because there's too little to do for a lvl 50 villain.
Clearing the maps is just totally pointless imho, it's usually not a part of the mission in any way even for role players and will take in some cases an insane amount of time. If there's a mob further in and the crystals are down, leave it, when last crystal is down, why bother with the last ambush?
If you do join a pick-up group for a task/strike force I think that's the general concencus, make it as fast as possible, because it might even fail and some will prefer even *really* ghosting it. I don't expect ghosting, but don't mind it, but I definitely expect people in general to desire to finish the task at hand speedily and efficiently.
Now: If you wanna clear all maps in ITF (or other) or you're hell bent on ghosting everything, better ask the potential team before joining and whining.
Also, as you said, ghosting doesn't really save that much time in most T/SFs. Ghosting to get out of the ambushes is usually a good way of ending up belly-up if you do it in PUGs and when you're playing your regular team it's usually so fast anyway and you don't care because you're "hanging out/in" with friends running on auto.
Now, we'll never ever agree on this, so... Enjoy the game, whatever way you play it and try not to get in any fights, kids! 
Ghosting is not skipping content. Ghosting is skipping the non-content you don't need to deal with.
For me, the content is the mission objectives. If the mission objectives state "defeat Gronk", the content of that mission is Gronk, not his gazillion randomly-places minions. Those minions are fillers in my opinion.
Mind you, they can be fun to defeat, or useful to defeat, and I can take great pleasure in defeating them, but they're not content.
And as has already been stated, ghosting powers are there for a reason. They're there to be used. If anything should be called "skipping content", then it should be not using your powers to the full extent of their abilities.
Additionally, not using ghosting powers simplifies the game to a Korean grinder where only DPS and mob handling matters. Stealth powers add another layer of strategy - not fighting when you don't have to.
So I'm all for ghosting, especially when it's more fun to ghost than not to.
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@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
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Surely it just depends what your aim is? For instance, I'll quite happily ghost in order to speed run things if I'm trying to get merits or a badge for a dull TF, but I recently dragged a low-level PuG Stalker through an entire Longbow mission - every last mob - after it decided to leave the team and run off to get the mission objectives with no warning. I don't see the point in ghosting if you're trying to level and the mobs are offering good XP, and I think it's bad manners/poor teamwork to run off without a word rather than staying and fighting with the rest of the team.
I think there is a place for both. I've been doing flashback badges on my main and ghost everything to get it done quick. How ever I've also completed every single one of the arcs solo clearing most maps just so they all have stars next to them and so I've got all the souveniers etc.
As for TFs if I'm with SG people and we're just after some fun we'll cruse through defeating as we go. How ever some of us also like to race these things and we like the challenge of trying to do ITF in 45mins by blitzing it.
So horses for courses.
Oh and most nights I'll only play for 30-60mins so the only way I can do a TF in one night it to ghost/blitz it or to multi-night them which most people hate.
Scouting on a defeat all makes me wonder about some people. I do wonder a lot about many people. The first few mins of a team get together can be weird. I am a bit quick on kicking people who seem to be on some other planet that's all I can say.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Powers like stealth, invisible, grant invis and recall friend are there for a reason.
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^^^ This. Ghosting a mission is just a strategy to deal with the mission. It is as valid as other strategies. I made my main ghostable now and can help out in the next tf she will enter.
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One of the faultline arcs give you a temp power to infiltrate a arachnos base and unhindered find a glowie..
for the duration of the temp (1 hour) you can finish of the entire arc by using this.
One might ask oneself why would they make such a mission if ghosting was considered the "wrong way" to play it?
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"When I say interview, I mean engage in combat and defeat..." -Laura Brunetti, on how to deal with Warriors.
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not fighting
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more fun
[/ QUOTE ]Huh. Standing around and staring at the ceiling isn't really fun. Neither is speeding through TFs for the merits. I AoE things for fun. 
Personally I dont mind either way, I like to complete maps but I will go with the team. To me ghosting some missions doed have its advantages as some of the TF's can be long and dull.
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Powers like stealth, invisible, grant invis and recall friend are there for a reason.
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^^^ This. Ghosting a mission is just a strategy to deal with the mission. It is as valid as other strategies. I made my main ghostable now and can help out in the next tf she will enter.
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One of the faultline arcs give you a temp power to infiltrate a arachnos base and unhindered find a glowie..
for the duration of the temp (1 hour) you can finish of the entire arc by using this.
One might ask oneself why would they make such a mission if ghosting was considered the "wrong way" to play it?
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That mission was a gem. Theres something so damn GOOD about waltzing through the Arachnos base in Huntsman kit, praying like crazy that one of the Fortunatas or Bosses wont, somehow, see through the disguise.
They should add more diversity to missions and TFs. Too often its 'defeat so and so' or 'kill x green things'. Boring. Repetitive. I despised the Leviathan SF after the run, due to the silly amount of LB hunting involved.
Infiltration missions would be great. Something like the Cavern TF, where you need to simultaniously click glowies. Idea;
Infiltration TF
Mission 1 -confrontation-
Fairly standard mission just to start off, hunt down boss etc to find out what the hecks going on
Mission 2 -Scouting-
Disguised mission, fairly simple, two, maybe more bosses to avoid that can see through the disguise, but only at a reasonable range, no spying them from miles off to blow the cover. Get intel from computers, w/e
Possibilities for missions here
Finale -Covert Ops strike-
Disguised, certain doors need to be opened throughout base, etc. Diguise is unlimited, only for this mish. Doors may need two or more people to click glowies (insert codes) at the same time. Things like pressure pads as well, teamwork and stealthiness, etc.
Confrontation with EB/AV.
Then you need to exfiltrate the base. Either rely once more on the disguises to bypass the massive reinforcement waves, or, if you dare, simply blow the hell out of everything on the way out
Any takers on that?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Depends. If the mission's a endless 1300000-floor office, I'll probably ghost it.
If it's a mission which takes no longer than about 40 minutes, except 'unique' TF maps (like final Rommy mish), then I won't ghost it.
There's a time and place for ghosting, IMHO.
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Any takers on that?
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Definitely me.
Not adverse in letting ghosting happen, truth be told it happens often. But only when the entire team agrees on it (or it is late and we must finish asap).
Cave of transcendence is mentioned (that is one where we ghost.. and ghost and ghost through tunnels and letting one ghost and tp us around on them pillars) and since we are on a timer on that one ghosting is your friend.
(Since im with the mindset "XP is easy... to easy to get" and "XP comes when it comes and soon the ding will arrive anyway")
Never ghost though on the first or second time I do a tf/story arc in team, Unless I'm soloing though.
Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool
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not fighting
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more fun
[/ QUOTE ]Huh. Standing around and staring at the ceiling isn't really fun.
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Sometimes it beats pressing 3-6-7-8-1-4-2-3-4-2-3-5-ad nauseam, especially if you always see the same mobs in the same corridors, knowing that you could skip that button mashing and get a sandwich while the resident ghoster, eh, ghosts.
You can also be radical and chat with your team mates in the short wait until the ghoster is done ghosting. If you get bored of that, then either your ghoster svcks, or your team members are incredibly boring: Either way, you better reform the team.
Finally, you can be even more radical, roll a ghoster ans try ghosting for yourself.
Case in point: while reading your post and thinking of how to answer it, I was button mashing my attack chains pretty much on auto. I think that's telling of how fun laborious "defeat all" missions really are. Had someone been ghosting, I'd had a nice chat with my friends, and had I done the ghosting, I'd been concentrating on that. Either way, my mind would have been in the game, not here on the board.
All in my humble opinion, of course. If you enjoy your play-style, I'm not saying that you're wrong. I just don't agree.
Still @Shadow Kitty
"I became Archvillain before Statesman nerfed himself!"
Super Speed and Moment of Glory are quite a good combo for glowie ghosting if you don't have a professional ghoster available - SS for the stealth to get past the mobs, and MoG for when you reach the glowie and find it's guarded - gives you time to click it while they're swinging and missing
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I have a special ghosting character which i only use on TFs. I don't see ghosting necessary outside the Task forces and trials.
You can do mission with defeating every single moving creature in it that's for sure but mobs and the maps are as same as you will see in regular missions so why bother if we can available a way around it. I don't see it as cheating, you get less xp/drops from the mission so that counters your time gain.
As Shannon said those powers are there for a reason.
My view on it is that there is a time and place for ghosting. Some missions are dull and a little long, hunting for magicians is one that springs to mind. So I tend to ghost to the hostages and rescue them.
My only problem with ghosting is those people who insist on speed running everything by missing as much content as possible in order to complete a TF in 30 mins and screw up the rewards for everyone else.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
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The thing that irks me about it, is half the time, the people who attempt to do the ghosting really aren't equipped for it and end up dying or annoying the whole map.
Its a total waste of time and actually slows things down because then the rest of the team either ends up clearing the map to rescue or rez them, or they insist on doing the farce all over again.
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Sometimes it beats pressing 3-6-7-8-1-4-2-3-4-2-3-5-ad nauseam, especially if you always see the same mobs in the same corridors, knowing that you could skip that button mashing and get a sandwich while the resident ghoster, eh, ghosts.
You can also be radical and chat with your team mates in the short wait until the ghoster is done ghosting. If you get bored of that, then either your ghoster svcks, or your team members are incredibly boring: Either way, you better reform the team.
Finally, you can be even more radical, roll a ghoster ans try ghosting for yourself.
Case in point: while reading your post and thinking of how to answer it, I was button mashing my attack chains pretty much on auto. I think that's telling of how fun laborious "defeat all" missions really are. Had someone been ghosting, I'd had a nice chat with my friends, and had I done the ghosting, I'd been concentrating on that. Either way, my mind would have been in the game, not here on the board.
All in my humble opinion, of course. If you enjoy your play-style, I'm not saying that you're wrong. I just don't agree.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't really agree with you either, although I don't have anything against it if other people prefer to ghost - unless I'm in the team for the experience, of course.
I have my own ghoster, as I stated in an earlier post here.
Also, mashing buttons 3-6-7-8-1-4-2-3-4-2-3-5 repeatedly is pretty much how the entire game goes. Including AV fights. If that bores you, I don't see why you're playing CoX (or (most) MMORPGs in general) at all. 
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Sometimes it beats pressing 3-6-7-8-1-4-2-3-4-2-3-5-ad nauseam, especially if you always see the same mobs in the same corridors, knowing that you could skip that button mashing and get a sandwich while the resident ghoster, eh, ghosts.
You can also be radical and chat with your team mates in the short wait until the ghoster is done ghosting. If you get bored of that, then either your ghoster svcks, or your team members are incredibly boring: Either way, you better reform the team.
Finally, you can be even more radical, roll a ghoster ans try ghosting for yourself.
Case in point: while reading your post and thinking of how to answer it, I was button mashing my attack chains pretty much on auto. I think that's telling of how fun laborious "defeat all" missions really are. Had someone been ghosting, I'd had a nice chat with my friends, and had I done the ghosting, I'd been concentrating on that. Either way, my mind would have been in the game, not here on the board.
All in my humble opinion, of course. If you enjoy your play-style, I'm not saying that you're wrong. I just don't agree.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't really agree with you either, although I don't have anything against it if other people prefer to ghost - unless I'm in the team for the experience, of course.
I have my own ghoster, as I stated in an earlier post here.
Also, mashing buttons 3-6-7-8-1-4-2-3-4-2-3-5 repeatedly is pretty much how the entire game goes. Including AV fights. If that bores you, I don't see why you're playing CoX (or (most) MMORPGs in general) at all.
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AV fights tend to be the worst offenders IMO. All pile on the bag of HP and slowly whittle him away. Had one (a Hero class actually) in RWZ last week. The Longbow Lieutent. Most boring fight I've been in in a very, very long time. At least with regular spawns you work on getting position right, where to drop debuffs etc and the added bonus of maybe aggroing a second mob to make life more interesting. AV fights are just DULL for the most part. The only good one I've had in ages was the one at the end of the Dark Watcher arc thanks to all the varied ambushes.
Unless I've joined a team for XP I don't have any issues with Ghosting. Sometimes stealth and cunning is a better option than simply slogging through every single mob on the map.
In the case of a TFs,ghosting can be a boon on the really long ones.
Heck, Stalkers are ghosting personified.
The Nictus Romulus fight WITHOUT a Kinetics character on the team can be a fun AV fight that requires a bit of thinking, positioning, proper agro management and everyone knowing what they're doing.
(Of course, Fulcrum Shift just lets you pile up on him and smash him down like any other baddie without any tactics needed.)
Ghosting has it's merits, specially when on a long TF to speed it up some.
However i do dislike people who take it upon themselves to ghost it. Running off with the team behind, that i really dislike.
I recall one TF i was in, where a stalker decided to ghost the mission, ran ahead without word and started completing the objectives. Each objective causing an ambush to spawn, we were fighting around 6 groups at once causing us to wipe.
That stuff i really dislike.