If there was anything you could change...
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2008-07-22 21:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Also, whatever system that would theoretically support betting on the outcome of a PvP fight would not get rid of the fact that some people would fix or swing fights to swindle large amounts of Influence in return for a back-handed secret payment.
What? - If it happens in RL it sure is going to happen in an MMO if the system allows it!.
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I am sure it would happen but i doubt betting would be used on random fights by many people.99% of the time large bets would be either between highly ranked fighters or during tournaments.Combined with a ranking system i proposed a loss would mean loss of rank or loss of PvP xp locking out PvP powers.So the loser does have something to lose.
Hell this could open up other side events like Friday Night fights with toons that use only Fight pool and brawl or only between MA scrappers and so on.Even the boxing cossie Vet reward would mean something for those events 
Just remembered something...
Hurl - put the old animation back. The new one sucks.
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Just remembered something...
Hurl - put the old animation back. The new one sucks.
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Oh you monster. *drops the new hurl on your foot*
Now if I had used the old one it would have felt like a pebble.
I would go further with the merger of CoV and CoH, i'd have heroes able to fight crime as renegades in the rogue isles and villains able to further their agenda away from arachnos in paragon (seriously, they are all chosen ones! surely there's another route to power other than directly at recluse himself!)
to this end I would have heroes and villains mix in paragon and rogue isles.
Heroes are targetted by securtiy in rogue isles, villains are targetted by longbow and PPD in Paragon: with a catch.
Your wanted rating depends on your level and the amount of inf/prestige you have earned through your career. Earn enough and every person will know who you are and be out to get you (or steer clear if they're wimps but they would report you to the authorities). This way, heroes and villains would naturally gravitate back to their respective zones or move to co-op zones as the resistance gets tougher.
PvP: in paragon as an example: A villain pulls off a robbery, police witness this and give chase, a radio alert is automatically calle din and a warrant put out for the villains arrest making him a legitimate PvP target for 15 minutes, after this time, the character returns to normal, non-pvp status.
A hero witnesses a robbery by a villain, right click on villain and "check for record" - if its there, hte villain is a legitimate PvP target. If not, hero can report him. enough reports in a period of time and the villain goes on the longbow wanted list, huntable by heroes for X period of time or until defeated.
Hero-Players can have long running battles with villain-playing friends. SGs can have a weighted hatred for a VG (auto PvP on between the two groups) etc.
anyway, not 100% thought out but thats the one thing I would chance. If you want PvP , its there, all the time, if you dont, play somewhere safer , option is there. if you want danger but not always PvP, play a villain in the city tryign to keep a low profile until you are powerful enough to do something about it.
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Just remembered something...
Hurl - put the old animation back. The new one sucks.
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Oh you monster. *drops the new hurl on your foot*
Now if I had used the old one it would have felt like a pebble.
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Teeheeheehee!
Sorry, but I think it looks so stupid. The other, more slower, animation looked well better. A crack in the ground doesn't even appear in this one so it makes you wonder where the hell that big boulder came from.
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PvP: in paragon as an example: A villain pulls off a robbery, police witness this and give chase, a radio alert is automatically calle din and a warrant put out for the villains arrest making him a legitimate PvP target for 15 minutes, after this time, the character returns to normal, non-pvp status.
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Yeah... the word ganking comes to mind. What would be the point? Also, if the target becomes a target for other players to attack, surely said target is able to target other players as well to defend him/her self. Basically, Level 50 Villain robs Atlas Park's bank and then starts killing all the lowbie Heroes who have just come out of the Tutorial... anyone see my problem here?
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Just remembered something...
Hurl - put the old animation back. The new one sucks.
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Oh you monster. *drops the new hurl on your foot*
Now if I had used the old one it would have felt like a pebble.
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Teeheeheehee!
Sorry, but I think it looks so stupid. The other, more slower, animation looked well better. A crack in the ground doesn't even appear in this one so it makes you wonder where the hell that big boulder came from.
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True but darnit... I feel more super throwing the new huge rock.
Slap players that continually use paper mishes...a big hand should just come out of the screen with the words "do some story arcs" written on it and slap them! I know there's already a bonus for completing a story arc but some other incentive should be added to stop the spamming of paper mishes. Having said that sometimes it can't be helped...CoH at the levs 30-35 for instance have horrible mishes with contacts sending you all over the place to do them, so er...more hero arcs please!
Some talkie characters be interesting to hear the cut-scenes voiced or certain trainers.
More mods for the monster faces, my lizard can't celebrate christmas =(
Make the robotic legs nice.
Bring back the old thigh highs (sorry if this wrong, I haven't seen thigh high boots since I12 was in testroom)
an air guitar emote
@SkullFester
I'm not changing this signature until I'm proclaimed 'King of the World'.
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Just remembered something...
Hurl - put the old animation back. The new one sucks.
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Oh you monster. *drops the new hurl on your foot*
Now if I had used the old one it would have felt like a pebble.
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Teeheeheehee!
Sorry, but I think it looks so stupid. The other, more slower, animation looked well better. A crack in the ground doesn't even appear in this one so it makes you wonder where the hell that big boulder came from.
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True but darnit... I feel more super throwing the new huge rock.
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Have to agree with you on that. The other was a pebble. They could've just made the pebble into a rock. They didn't have to speed it up AND remove the crack in the ground too. 
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
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Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
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1) How are the devs going to make stories for ALL these zones. Not forgetting that they own have their own lore which fits in with the game.
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Answered your own question there - expand upon that lore. Most hazards have very thin lore anyway, most of it either on badges/plaques or official website lore - they need enhancing anyway. Apart from that it just takes man-hours.
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2) You can overdo these kind of zones (co-op/competitive). If they were going to be all co-op zones then that would be 11 co-op zones. We have 3 already.
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You missed Eden and both Sewer zones off your list 
And which are you counting as 3 existing co-ops? RWZ is the only true co-op hazard zone, as it has proper mission arcs and a zone event to go with the TF, plus normal hazard-style outdoor spawns. Cimerora doesn't have proper mission content (just repeatables, the TF, and that exposition-dump masquerading as an intro-mission), and just barely has outdoor spawns, but ok I'll give you that for 2. So what are you counting as the 3rd co-op zone? Pocket D or Midnight Club? Pocket D only has missions given out on holidays and Midnight Club is just a link-zone to Cimerora - neither have outdoor spawns, TFs, zone events or normal mission arcs.
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3) Continuing on from my last point, eventually, we'll feel like we've be treated like we're the same side. Effectively, we may as well be one game. That would be horrible.
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From a technical perspective this is one game now (from a codebase/client perspective it always has been). From a lore/story perspective I'd only agree with you if the co-op revamps were poorly done. From a gameplay/community perspective, and as much as I prefer CoV over CoH, I still think it was a mistake for the Devs to split the already small playerbase into two separate factions - WoW can get away with it with their busier server populations, but CoH/V really can't (except maybe on Freedumb). But I don't know what your perspective for disliking co-op is as you haven't really explained.
I love lore - as I've said in another thread I have no problem with co-op providing it's against a global threat (like Marvel's Galactus) so heroes/villains are forced to cooperate for their own survival. The Rikti work for that, but I think Hamidon/The Hive should be co-op too - after all, what storyline/lore logic is there for Hamidon being able to move between The Hive and The Abyss anyway? Are we to believe he occasionally takes a wander through Eden/FF/Talos then has a nice swim 50+ miles to the Rogue Isles, then throws himself to the bottom of a deep crater? Admittedly I suppose a big lump of jelly is quite buoyant... he probably floats there on the tide... 
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1) I'd suggest you start reading up on the lore of the Hazard Zones - there's a LOT of stuff to be learned, but I don't feel the devs can translate that into co-op.
2) They're co-op zones, so they count for it. Even if we didn't count Cimerora and Pocket D (that's the one I'm talking about) there would still be masses of co-op zones. Seriously, how many want that many.
3) The reason I don't really like co-op is because we are two games now - even if that was a mistake. Sure, we can do it once every now and again, but I don't want to be greeted by hordes of co-op zones. I just don't like co-op because, to be honest, there isn't enough reason involved. Sure, Rikti invade world, we're all doomed, but I bet we could do it all on our own. Actually, we pretty much can if you get up some good ATs. I believe there isn't enough good reason for it - Rikti, for example, we can already beat well enough on our own. What would make them so harder in an invasion? Sure, more quantity, but effectively, quantity doesn't win over power.
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anyway, not 100% thought out but thats the one thing I would chance. If you want PvP , its there, all the time, if you dont, play somewhere safer , option is there. if you want danger but not always PvP, play a villain in the city tryign to keep a low profile until you are powerful enough to do something about it.
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So what you're basically suggesting is... World PvP. Yeah, that'd be the death of this game.
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91
Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
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According to Samuraikos video, and she got her info directly from devs, didn't Statesman and Lord Recluse open pandoras box to get their powers?
Or did i understand it wrongly.
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It depends on whether the "Web of Arachnos" novel is being considered canonical by the Devs these days. In the novel Marcus Cole and Stefan Richter found a pool at the bottom of the Well of the Furies, fed by water pouring from the Fountain of Zeus. They drank the water, beginning their transformation into incarnates.
When they looked behind the Fountain they found what was "tainting" the water, a leakage of power from a box which was written ambiguously to appear as technological/scientific to Richter and magical to Cole (starting their major disagreement/rift). Curious, they opened the box, realising it was Pandora's Box as it released superpowers back into the world, which had been building up inside the box since the first age of heroes (i.e. the Greco-Roman era that Cimerora is at the tail-end of). Then the Well started collapsing, Richter was washed out to sea and Cole had to dig his own way out. The appearance of mutation origin individuals in the world coincides with the box being opened (I think Sister Psyche was supposedly born then, for instance).
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According to Samuraikos video, and she got her info directly from devs, didn't Statesman and Lord Recluse open pandoras box to get their powers?
Or did i understand it wrongly.
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It depends on whether the "Web of Arachnos" novel is being considered canonical by the Devs these days. In the novel Marcus Cole and Stefan Richter found a pool at the bottom of the Well of the Furies, fed by water pouring from the Fountain of Zeus. They drank the water, beginning their transformation into incarnates.
When they looked behind the Fountain they found what was "tainting" the water, a leakage of power from a box which was written ambiguously to appear as technological/scientific to Richter and magical to Cole (starting their major disagreement/rift). Curious, they opened the box, realising it was Pandora's Box as it released superpowers back into the world, which had been building up inside the box since the first age of heroes (i.e. the Greco-Roman era that Cimerora is at the tail-end of). Then the Well started collapsing, Richter was washed out to sea and Cole had to dig his own way out. The appearance of mutation origin individuals in the world coincides with the box being opened (I think Sister Psyche was supposedly born then, for instance).
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Correct me if I am wrong, but having read the Web of Arachnos and thinking about some of the NPCs ingame today (One Lady Grey for example), I personally think there were superpowers in the world before Statesman and Recluse opened Pandora's Box purely because of:
[*]Lady Grey's ingame bio. [ QUOTE ]
Ever composed, ever mysterious, the powerful and otherworldly Lady Grey is rumored to be older than Statesman
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[*]The Dark Watcher's origin is Magical. He'd been in touch with Tibetan Monks who were expert sorcerers. On the night States and Lord R. opened the box, the DW was able to properly use his powers. However, the monks in Tibet wouldn't just magically receive their powers then, at the exact same moment as well, would they?
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1) I'd suggest you start reading up on the lore of the Hazard Zones - there's a LOT of stuff to be learned
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That's rather a bold statement. I've read the backgrounders and badges/plaques and what mission text refers to them (not an awful lot). So where do you suggest I go to learn the "LOT" of lore of the hazard zones that you obviously know but apparently I don't?
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Seriously, how many want that many.
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Who can say - I just see people complaining they can't get teams. A more relevant question is probably what are the Devs intentions? I'd be willing to bet all new zone additions from now on will be co-op, or at least shared (like Ouro, even though it's not co-op), but zone revamps will continue to be a mixture of co-op (like RWZ) and not (Faultline/Hollows). I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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I believe there isn't enough good reason for it - Rikti, for example, we can already beat well enough on our own.
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Sure, and in a perfect world heroes would get a new zone every issue and villains would get a new zone every issue, but that's not the recent trend - if it's one zone per issue then maybe you'd like to go back to the pattern of I7 (which was 95% villain-only and thus hero-only players complained) or I8 (which was 95% hero-only and thus villain-only players complained). The I9-12 pattern has been delivering content equally to both sides, and if that results in one new zone per issue then it's highly likely to be co-op. Now ok, the Dev team is expanding now, maybe they can repeal that trend - we'll have to wait and see - but Positron has stated on several different issues that he likes delivering content that the majority can access, which certainly explains that I9-12 trend.
So if co-op is the way it has to be then I want to see it rationalised properly in lore, rather than just delivering up hero-focused content and expecting villains to put up with it (honestly, why are villains really helping the Vanguard, when Vanguard & Longbow are supporting the Traditionalist faction and Arachnos has a deal with the Restructurists? It's only the direct action against the Lineage of War in later RWZ arcs and the TF I can really rationalise for both hero and villain).
Also redside needs more zones/content and revamping existing zones that barely get used in CoH seems a faster way to solve that, especially when the storylines behind several of the hazards (BP in DA & Reichsman in Boomtown) lends itself to global threat situations.
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I personally think there were superpowers in the world before Statesman and Recluse opened Pandora's Box
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anyway, not 100% thought out but thats the one thing I would chance. If you want PvP , its there, all the time, if you dont, play somewhere safer , option is there. if you want danger but not always PvP, play a villain in the city tryign to keep a low profile until you are powerful enough to do something about it.
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So what you're basically suggesting is... World PvP. Yeah, that'd be the death of this game.
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I'm not a huge fan of PvP myself so no, what I am suggesting is world integration which, by the very nature of the characters would lead to conflict which would be settled by PvP. But, and its a big but, it *is* optional.
PvP in paragon can only be initiated by heroes and pvp in rogue isles can onyl be initiated by villains for example.
as I said, not 100% thought out but the title did say if you could change anything... well the one thing I would change is the seperation of heroes from villains geographically speaking
anyway, not being a fan of PvP doesnt mean I wouldnt like to see a good hero vs villain battle take place in atlas park!
the rogue island invasion at the end of coV beta testing was great fun (if somewhat laggy)
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Correct me if I am wrong, but having read the Web of Arachnos and thinking about some of the NPCs ingame today (One Lady Grey for example), I personally think there were superpowers in the world before Statesman and Recluse opened Pandora's Box purely because of:
[*]Lady Grey's ingame bio. [ QUOTE ]
Ever composed, ever mysterious, the powerful and otherworldly Lady Grey is rumored to be older than Statesman
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[*]The Dark Watcher's origin is Magical. He'd been in touch with Tibetan Monks who were expert sorcerers. On the night States and Lord R. opened the box, the DW was able to properly use his powers. However, the monks in Tibet wouldn't just magically receive their powers then, at the exact same moment as well, would they?
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Oh of course there had been some. Ermeeth's Oranbegans (now CoT), Hequat's Mu, and the BP didn't need the box to be throwing magic around in ancient times - I think magic has always been around in the world, it's just opening the box made it easier for normal people to access. Also Foreshadow has been reborn as hero or villain many times before, and Nemesis had fairly advanced science in the 19th Century. Not to mention there were probably several immortal survivors left over from the first age of heroes (Stheno for certain). And obviously Natural origin is just training or inherent ability, so that existed prior to the box being opened.
Obviously there are exceptions. And of course the box was leaking out power anyway prior to being fully opened. Fully opening it was just what catalysed the widespread incidence of superheroes/villains in the CoH/V world.
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anyway, not 100% thought out but thats the one thing I would chance. If you want PvP , its there, all the time, if you dont, play somewhere safer , option is there. if you want danger but not always PvP, play a villain in the city tryign to keep a low profile until you are powerful enough to do something about it.
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So what you're basically suggesting is... World PvP. Yeah, that'd be the death of this game.
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World PvP = bye bye to my subs.
[url=http://vox-doom.deviantart.com]Take A Gander At This.[/url]
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[PvP in paragon can only be initiated by heroes and pvp in rogue isles can onyl be initiated by villains for example.
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Still the issue of ganking and hospital camping. Also, it's still a form of World PvP. Judging by Vox_Doom's reaction, a large number of people wouldn't like that. 
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As long CoH is age restricted to age 12. NO form of betting should be allowed imho. It's a game, but a lot of kids play as well.
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As it isn't its 16...?
still too young. would have to raise the age to 18 or 21.
ganking:
limit the level of interaction between the two sides (a level 50 cannot initiate a fight against a level 1 for example. if a level 1 starts on a level 50, well thats his problem and he fully deserves the resultant planting).
the villain (in this scenario) would have to be on a register of offenders to be a legitimate target so random ganks are out.
Hospital camping: put villain hospital in an underground bunker that heroes cannot access, have multiple exits (its actually a tap into the hero emergency teleport system).
Yes, heroes can camp outside the exits, but it would be considerably harder than a single hospital, also, if the wanted level drops in the meantime the villain will not be pvp-able unless he/she elects to be.
Villains defeated by a hero while wanted would find themselves in a longbow security facility that htey then have to escape from (this facility is also raidable by villains to free their comrades in crime, a form of raid mission with a reward for each viallain beyond the mission objective they break out). Additional missions could be run to delete a villain from the criminal database (or a temporary power could be used) to clear a wanted level.
World PvP:
There are also people who have posted that if PvP is not fully introduced their subs will go. There will always be someone threatening to pull their subs if they dont get what they want. IMHO, I dont see this as a threat in any way shape or form (sorry Vox, no offence meant) after the first ten times I have read this form of response it just gets old. Vox is one person, I would not take his reaction to signify "a large number" of players , and in all honesty the name, Vox_Doom sort of says it all really 
Yes it is a FORM of world PvP. you cant integrate the two communities and not expect some form of conflict (conflict between two playable character by definition = PvP). However,
If you play a hero and dont want Pvp:
a. dont track down villains
b. dont go to the rogue isles
and you still get the game you are playing now
similarly for villains:
a. dont track heroes
b. dont play in the paragon
In the meantime:
an alternative startign path for heroes (perhaps as a longbow operative)
an alternative starting path for villains (no more snakes !!! yay!)
the ability to make trips into the other side, will help straighten out the disparity between AH and BM.
Missions can be of a whole new flavour in a whole new setting (from a characters point of view).
More of the understory for each side can be explored and developed
Co-op missions will be much more accessible if players want to go that way
PvP will be there *if you want it*
Could be a new Co title, CoS , City of Subterfuge
Its more to do with the Issue of Gambling addiction, the Gambling awareness board would have a field-day if they found out kids were gambling - even if it was only with virtual Inf.
For arguments sake the only thing such a system could possibly involve is 'Rep'.
A Fight Victor gets quadruple rep off a fight - bet-winning spectators get double and the negative values for the Vanquished and losing punters.... would that work?
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ThatÂ’s a good point, but we are talking about the mythology here. It may have a bearing but it has no place in a modern setting. It should have remained a myth.
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But superheroes and time travel go together - it's a major source of plots and retcons
I'm hoping for a lot more non-modern zones we can travel to - like the Middle Ages or ancient Egyptian - stuff like the pyramids are just asking for a visit - it could be in a zone with the sphinx, and a temple and some of those tombs cut into the rocks.
Or a medieval place with a castle and a town and a forest to explore.
If a villain could time travel, then it's only logical that he would try and alter history to help him in the present - it's what villains do
The game is a sci-fi fantasy, where mythological people and creatures exist alongside modern and futuristic people and creatures, and as time travel is a well-established part of the game, it makes sense to visit periods where there is a lot of strong mythology, like the Greeks and Romans, or Egypt or medieval times.
And don't forget, the costume creator has given us plenty of knights and witches and Egyptian priests and priestesses running around in a modern city - they must have gotten here somehow - it'd be nice forn them to visit home again
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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And which are you counting as 3 existing co-ops? RWZ is the only true co-op hazard zone, as it has proper mission arcs and a zone event to go with the TF, plus normal hazard-style outdoor spawns. Cimerora doesn't have proper mission content (just repeatables, the TF, and that exposition-dump masquerading as an intro-mission), and just barely has outdoor spawns, but ok I'll give you that for 2. So what are you counting as the 3rd co-op zone? Pocket D or Midnight Club? Pocket D only has missions given out on holidays and Midnight Club is just a link-zone to Cimerora - neither have outdoor spawns, TFs, zone events or normal mission arcs.
1) How are the devs going to make stories for ALL these zones. Not forgetting that they own have their own lore which fits in with the game.
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Answered your own question there - expand upon that lore. Most hazards have very thin lore anyway, most of it either on badges/plaques or official website lore - they need enhancing anyway. Apart from that it just takes man-hours.
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2) You can overdo these kind of zones (co-op/competitive). If they were going to be all co-op zones then that would be 11 co-op zones. We have 3 already.
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You missed Eden and both Sewer zones off your list
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3) Continuing on from my last point, eventually, we'll feel like we've be treated like we're the same side. Effectively, we may as well be one game. That would be horrible.
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From a technical perspective this is one game now (from a codebase/client perspective it always has been). From a lore/story perspective I'd only agree with you if the co-op revamps were poorly done. From a gameplay/community perspective, and as much as I prefer CoV over CoH, I still think it was a mistake for the Devs to split the already small playerbase into two separate factions - WoW can get away with it with their busier server populations, but CoH/V really can't (except maybe on Freedumb). But I don't know what your perspective for disliking co-op is as you haven't really explained.
I love lore - as I've said in another thread I have no problem with co-op providing it's against a global threat (like Marvel's Galactus) so heroes/villains are forced to cooperate for their own survival. The Rikti work for that, but I think Hamidon/The Hive should be co-op too - after all, what storyline/lore logic is there for Hamidon being able to move between The Hive and The Abyss anyway? Are we to believe he occasionally takes a wander through Eden/FF/Talos then has a nice swim 50+ miles to the Rogue Isles, then throws himself to the bottom of a deep crater? Admittedly I suppose a big lump of jelly is quite buoyant... he probably floats there on the tide...