/rant
Here's an idea; remove PvP from the game completely. This way, hopelessly outclassed PvE builds can enjoy the mission content in PvP zones instead of worrying that some Mid's crafted cookie-cutter AT will come along and gank them without there being the least amount of a challenge in a one-sided 'bout' over in two or three attacks while the élitish PvP player laugh and berate a foe who didn't have a prayer, making said PvE player give up on experiencing the PvP zone's mission content the Devs spent time and effort into creating so that everyone might enjoy it.
/rant over
As for the OP...
Break-free's are there to break you free/protect you from mezzing effects. So, if you see someone approaching, spam four and laugh/cackle/insult them with poorly-spelled broken English or difficult to read/understand leet speak as they fail to hold you. If the above failed-mezzer says you 'cheated', tell them that it's not cheating to use a game-mechanic available to they themselves anyway.
And before anyone spouts off about 'honourable' PvP; there isn't any.
*wanders off to enjoy his game*
[ QUOTE ]
/rant
Here's an idea; remove PvP from the game completely. This way, hopelessly outclassed PvE builds can enjoy the mission content in PvP zones instead of worrying that some Mid's crafted cookie-cutter AT
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I found your problem...
@Jay Leon Hart
Kerensky: this has nothing to do with underwear
Zwillinger: I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Synapse: I had to resist starting my last post off with "Yo dawg!"
Us illusion/rads would still destroy ya 
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
Or mind/rad I'm thinking... 
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a post from Warhammer Online, they are saying that the CC in that game (beta, I assume) might be too weak:
http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_on...757807/p1/?128
The players seem to believe that less CC is good. Isn't it interesting that in this PvE oriented game, players are happy with lots of CC and in the PvP game, players are not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Can I make a point you may not have noticed?
This is City of Heroes. Not Warhammer, not WoW. If you don't like it, tough. Nobody is going to agree that dumping the Controller AT is a good idea.
I've never been a troller (passed 10), I may try it out and mezz some foo's! 
(still /unsigned btw)
[ QUOTE ]
Can I make a point you may not have noticed?
This is City of Heroes. Not Warhammer, not WoW. If you don't like it, tough. Nobody is going to agree that dumping the Controller AT is a good idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
So many people with /blinkers on. Are you not prepared to face the fact that CoH desperately needs to change if it's to compare with other games (*gasp* I said, "other games"! *oh noes*) which are the product of the evolution of the genre?
CoX is a great IP with a lot of really cool features and despite my criticism is a very successful veteran of the MMO space, I won't deny any of this for a moment. I do feel, however, that contemporary MMOs are looking at a more "freestyle" form of PvP, as opposed to the oldschool unfun /assist tanktrain (okay, I've heard of "pin and hold", but this is ridiculous!). Having abilities which totally lock down characters while they are beaten to death and incapable of escape (the "breakfree" argument simply doesn't cut it for several reasons not least of which is that you don't have an infinite supply), is not fun.
[ QUOTE ]
Nobody is going to agree that dumping the Controller AT is a good idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
...and this is why CoX will never have balanced and fun PvP. When we look back at the game, it might even be seen as THE fatal mistake.
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can I make a point you may not have noticed?
This is City of Heroes. Not Warhammer, not WoW. If you don't like it, tough. Nobody is going to agree that dumping the Controller AT is a good idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
So many people with /blinkers on. Are you not prepared to face the fact that CoH desperately needs to change if it's to compare with other games (*gasp* I said, "other games"! *oh noes*) which are the product of the evolution of the genre?
CoX is a great IP with a lot of really cool features and despite my criticism is a very successful veteran of the MMO space, I won't deny any of this for a moment. I do feel, however, that contemporary MMOs are looking at a more "freestyle" form of PvP, as opposed to the oldschool unfun /assist tanktrain (okay, I've heard of "pin and hold", but this is ridiculous!). Having abilities which totally lock down characters while they are beaten to death and incapable of escape (the "breakfree" argument simply doesn't cut it for several reasons not least of which is that you don't have an infinite supply), is not fun.
[ QUOTE ]
Nobody is going to agree that dumping the Controller AT is a good idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
...and this is why CoX will never have balanced and fun PvP. When we look back at the game, it might even be seen as THE fatal mistake.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yet another reason to dump PvP then...
However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can I make a point you may not have noticed?
This is City of Heroes. Not Warhammer, not WoW. If you don't like it, tough. Nobody is going to agree that dumping the Controller AT is a good idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
So many people with /blinkers on. Are you not prepared to face the fact that CoH desperately needs to change if it's to compare with other games (*gasp* I said, "other games"! *oh noes*) which are the product of the evolution of the genre?
[/ QUOTE ]
CoX isn't perfect, and there are things that could be changed to make it better.
The fact that everyone disagrees with your suggested changes doesn't necessarily mean we're all blinkered though. It may just mean you're wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nobody is going to agree that dumping the Controller AT is a good idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
...and this is why CoX will never have balanced and fun PvP. When we look back at the game, it might even be seen as THE fatal mistake.
[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt it'd have made that critical a difference back then - a lot of people went to CoX solely because it had no PvP at launch.
In any event, at this point removing the Controller AT (and Dominator, and a lot of Defender, Corruptor and MM powersets would need tweaking (read "nerfing") too) to get rid of CC would lose you an awful lot of the existing player base. Think Star Wars Galaxies all over again...
Thing is if to be the same as all the other games is what this game needs, what then differentiates us from the other games? I've played WoW, and TBH I quite like it, but it is a wholey different game to CoH, the PvP is different but then so is the whole experience. If this game is so dire why are you here? why waste your time on a game that is so blatantly not what you want?
And while it might be said that the lack of good PvP in CoH is holding it back in comparison to the other MMOs I think its more likely that the Super Hero Genre is actually just not as interested to many people.
What CoH needs is to get rid of all those stupid controllers and dominators, and replace them with proper classes like druids and paladins.
Actually, do you want to know the real reason PvP in CoX can never be well balanced: Travel Powers. What good is a melee AT when the ranged AT can be 300m away in 5 seconds?
I really should do something about this signature.
No. We should ban everyone who shows even the slightest skill in PvP. It's not fair on everyone else.
Can people stop saying CC in CoH needs to be closer to the CC in WoW? CC in WoW is insanely overpowered in PvP, at least in CoH there's things like Break Free's, Mez Protection and buffs like Clear Mind and Thaw.
As for having to change things to keep up with "the competition", feh. WAR is the same market as CoH just as EVE is the same market as CoH, doesn't mean that WAR is direct competition. I wouldn't class any Fantasy MMO as direct competition.
[ QUOTE ]
Can people stop saying CC in CoH needs to be closer to the CC in WoW?
[/ QUOTE ]
1) This is a discussion forum
2) It's not "people", it's 1 person
I think its generally accepted that PvP is utterly borked in this game. Only really tenable for a few builds / sets and after a lot of grinding to get the almost-requisite IO's.
As far as I see there are two options:
1. Drop it completely from any further resource development.
2. Massive investment of resources to overhaul it completely.
Given the choice I'd go for 1, but with some reluctance. However, what certainly isnt an option is pretending its viable with drib and drab changes. A "cobble something together patchwork stylee" effort in an attempt to persuade people thats its viable. It isnt.
[ QUOTE ]
I think its generally accepted that PvP is utterly borked in this game. Only really tenable for a few people that want to put the time and effort in to a character to fight at the high end of Arena PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fixed.
[ QUOTE ]
As far as I see there are two options:
1. Drop it completely from any further resource development.
2. Massive investment of resources to overhaul it completely.
[/ QUOTE ]
They'll never do option 1. They'll do option 2 in a way, but that'll be a slow process (and has started with the latest round of pvp power changes) because they can't shift the entire Dev team to PvP for an issue or two. The majority of the playerbase wouldn't like it.
A more suitable way would be to allow someone who is held (not slept) to be able to attack the hold itself - the hold becoming a kind of 'pet' of the controller on each hit target. This could represent the target struggling free before the hold would normally expire.
The Intrepid's / The Institution - Union Server Hero / Villain Supergroups
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, do you want to know the real reason PvP in CoX can never be well balanced: Travel Powers. What good is a melee AT when the ranged AT can be 300m away in 5 seconds?
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with PRAF68 on this!
As long as people can -
Engage and run when things turn bad
Kite to use failures in the game code to negate certain alts powers (for example - jump in and out of QS before the code can react)
- PvP wont work.
The only way around this I think is to have travel powers suppress for minutes after engaging or remove them totally from PvP zones.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
Or they could make Hold Supression more reliable. 
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, do you want to know the real reason PvP in CoX can never be well balanced: Travel Powers. What good is a melee AT when the ranged AT can be 300m away in 5 seconds?
[/ QUOTE ]Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Thank you.
I've been saying this for a long time now.
Forgive me if I'm being ignorant, I have never PvP'd. Wouldn't the solution be as simple as suppressing travel powers in PvP zones?
Define Travel Power
My controller is Kin, would that mean I have no travel powers at all, or would it be the statndard pool power travel powers?
Personally I think if you want to break the travel powers in PvP, it should be a speed cap thing rather than a complete lack of them.
If you where going to try and create anything resembling balenced PvP then kinetics travel powers would certainly need the chop. Of course I'm not saying that is what should happen. I'm saying that it's impossible for CoX to have well balanced PvP and still be a fun superhero game with a wide range of fun superhero type powers.
As long as you aproach CoH as a mainly a PvE game that lets you venture into PvP then it's fine. If everyone went into a PvP zone with a character created for PvE and RP fun, PvP would work fine. It's only because some people make winning at PvP the be all and end all of thier character, and build for that, that balance is an issue at all.
I really should do something about this signature.
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It's only because some people make winning at PvP the be all and end all of thier character, and build for that, that balance is an issue at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
This. If someone specs a character for PvP not only will it be slightly more viable over a simpler, less specialised build but the person behind the keyboard will also be better versed in be able to play it.
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a post from Warhammer Online, they are saying that the CC in that game (beta, I assume) might be too weak:
http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_on...757807/p1/?128
The players seem to believe that less CC is good. Isn't it interesting that in this PvE oriented game, players are happy with lots of CC and in the PvP game, players are not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm...no?
I don't really see how different people liking different things in a different (beta, and hence unfinished) game has any particular bearing on CoX CC. Especially when those people's preferences are taken from forum postings - a notoriously unrepresentative sample.