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take issue with people who state if PVP dies then the game does, thats blatantly not true.
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Yeah.I not said that so i guess you aint referring to me DB 
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The problem with incentivising PvP is what incentives do you give? As you have stated you have a ridiculously expensive build, what could possibly improve it? And if it's something that could improve it then its probably too much of an incentive, especially with the way PVP is so massively imbalanced (which really in this game is unfixable, one of the major problem being travel powers which marginalise certain ATs)
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Well PvP ladders in game and a variety of PvP rewards like recipes could be a start i guess.Personally i would like to see a separate pvp progression level system that unlocks pvp only powers that are not usable in Pve but i can only dream.
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I personally don't see why you have to get anything from PVP in order for it to provide those things. Maybe if the game isn't providing you fun in whatever way you want it to then its time to take a break/leave/do some rl stuff as just sitting around complaining isn't going to make you happy, of that I'm certain.
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Well i am not complaining i am stating the obvious.At any moment i felt i got bored i took a break which of course is the best solution.But this is me stating the obvious about the PvP situation at the moment.It was very frustrating to see 60 people in RV yesterday and not be able have this kind of PvPing regularly due to no incentives.
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Just to counter, many people dont give two hoots about PvP, and would rather it withered and died so the Dev's concentrated on PvE. Fair play, just as its fair play many people are screaming for more PvP. Thats just there opinion.
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I would be cool with the idea devs removing PvP totally in order to focus in PvE.At least that would be obvious where they stand regarding the game.
Anyway hope they do something about it at some point.
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I have nothing against PvP and take issue with people who state if PVP dies then the game does, thats blatantly not true.
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To reiterate, my statement was on the issue of PvP within the game not the overall game itself
Also another point to counter the argument of "no incentive would be enough for the inf rich/ min maxed builds" is to take a leaf out the FFS game's book and have official ladders, LANs and material prizes
Too many long replys in this thread for me to read everything! I feel that the "New" team behind CoX has a better design on CoX and a better idea of where CoX is heading and what is needed to improve things. I
believe given time CoX PvP may improve..
They could start with a new lvl 50 PvP Zone everyone vs everyone and able to team with heros or villians. Void of NPCs and Heavys.
I also feel the PvP Rep system needs revamping or changing. I personally never look at someones rep to see if there good at PvP.
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The NCsoft team (Norcal) is growing, isn't it? Perhaps if we're patient enough they will eventually have a big enough team to allot the PvP side of the game to some of them, so that it can be taking care of - both with and seperately from PvE.
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THISSSS!1!!!!
Personally I enjoy PvP and the only serious issue I have is the lack of high level team pvp - I dont particularly mind the way the zones work buts thats probably because I see them as a very casual environment. So mainly I would like changes to encourage more PvP so better rewards (I definately think the surgestion of IO rewards for certain milestones would be very beneficial as it makes little sense how much PvE time you need to put in to get a great PvP build), an offical competition in the mould of S4, and some Arena QoL improvements such as selectable maps, and more game modes such as attack/defence, CTF, & objective style ones similar to Assault in UT (I think more diverse game modes would be a much better use of dev time than base raids although I do like the Cathedral of Pain trial).
Sorry if I'm typing nonsense im kinda drunk and still thought coming on forums was good idea . . .
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
Ok heres a strange suggestion I'm not sure it would work, just throwing a few ideas about, how about a 6 th costume slot but not for costumes solely this is the PVP version of your toon slot, where there is a selection of PVP only powers and abilities. when you select this slot and it can be used at any time, no jumping through hoops, you are only aloud in PVP zones with it and the transport system within the zones only takes you to the PVP zones not outside of them, the external ones will still be there as is but the PVP only slot can't use them. Plus then we could have PVP only shops in the zones, or shops built into each sides bases where only the PVP slot can buy PVP only advancements and so on, I'm sure you can see where i'm going with this, it is as far as I can see one solution that I think will give everybody what they want and maybe attract some who dont normally like PVP to PVP maybe also a toggle to use your 6th slot as a normal costume slot if you really really dont like PVP.
The end is just a new beginning, Goodbye all my coh friends and even the enemies, its been a blast I will miss you all. Thank you Paragon team, you gave me a home from home I will always appriciate it.
There are many problems with PvP.
I am a casual PvPer, I tend to use the zones to 'stress test' now powers, what better way to test a new power than against a thinking opponent.
As with the topic in the US of a similar nature (entitled 'why does CoX pvp suck?') there were a lot of problems raised in the topic, I shall voice several raised.
Stalkers and blasters are simply unfun to fight against, I for one don't care about losing, heck I expect with a toon built for PvE primarily than PvP but being 1 or 2-slotted by someone is simply not fun, I love a stand up fight, hell even if I get mezzed (and forgot to bring breakfrees >.>
and I last longer than 10 seconds, it's still a tad more fun than just being defeated with no possible chance of getting any shots in on the enemy whatsoever because I know it was my own stupidity that cost me the fight and not a game mechanic.
Base raids, while they may be fun, the cost of creating stuff only for it to be trashed while fighting simply means a lot of SGs wont open up to base raiding because it simply risks months (sometimes years) of work on their base to be trashed in under 20 minutes.
Melee classes (besides Stalkers) in PvP are under-represented, what we could do to really boost their PvP Viability is a tough one. Having melee attacks supress travel suppresion, while good, does bring up the problem of that, to quote:
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A flying Broadsword Scrapper doing a Brian Blessed and diving into attack an unsuspecting defender who, while trying to run like Stone Cold Steve Austin through Molasses, has no chance as the Scrapper wheels around for another attack before the supression wears off
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It's a hard problem to solve and I honestly can't think of a decent, no overpowered way, of solving it, better minds than I should be at work at solving the problem though.
FoTM builds are always going to be a problem, there really is no way of dealing with it, some set combos simply will outpreform others, however, perhaps making it so that the other sets aren't outpreformed by such a wide margin (buffing certain sets for PvP situations only) as to make them atleast a viable, if not alternative, choice where someone new could atleast succeed decently in PvP instead of being dropped every time like a dead weight simply because they made the wrong powerset choices.
No tangible rewards, for one, up the rep for kills gained, for gods sake get rid of the current decay rate, allow people to earn that 400 rep badge over time and increase the rep from a measly 1.00 upto a 10, that's still 40 PvPers you have to kill to gain that badge and you DON'T have to actually resort to rep farming to do it for a change.
The problem is that you end up going the WoW Arena route. Make PvP rewards completely outshadow 90% of the PvE rewards and it kills a large percentage simply because the PvP rewards are better (large raiding guilds suffered massively thanks to Arena simply because people could get perfectly viable PvE gear, not only with less effort but far easier than attending tier 4-5 PvE dungeon raids).
Badge Earned: Wing Clipper
A real showstopper!
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AWhoever was the genius that thought placing AV's in a PvP zone should be given a reward for having no clue about PvP objectives and design.
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Only read the OP's post, but isn't the reason they're there that they help when you play the RV game (What the zone was originally meant for) of capturing Pillboxes and trying to beat the other team?
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
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Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
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AWhoever was the genius that thought placing AV's in a PvP zone should be given a reward for having no clue about PvP objectives and design.
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Only read the OP's post, but isn't the reason they're there that they help when you play the RV game (What the zone was originally meant for) of capturing Pillboxes and trying to beat the other team?
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Zones are meant to have something to play for and when you win the zone AVs/Heroes come and help to turn the tide against your favour to balance things.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
i havent read the whole thread as i just wanted to add an idea to what i would like to see in PvP... i will admit when i first got into PvP say i5/i6 i didnt really realise that Melee was a bad thing...
Anyways... my idea is that maybe Taunt on a Tank/Scrap/Brute have a unresistable slow effect lasting 10secs say? So you cant just Kite/Run away when they get into Melee range... But so there is no exploit to other AT's only make it in the taunts that Tanks/Scraps/Brutes have an not the Power Pool Taunt you can get... Just an Idea anyways on something bugs me.. Melee being useless in PvP.
"We're not tools of the Government or anyone else...
Fighting was the only thing, the only thing I was good at...
But atleast...I always fought for what I believed in!" (Gray Fox)
@Captain Paragon EU @Captain Paragon.
As a lot of people know, I am not a PvP'er (a bit of arena - and thats it)
But I do agree that something needs to be done, to encourage more people in to this side of the game. I love this game dearly, and would hate to see any aspect of it go the way of the dodo.
whilst just as in RL, all are created equal, and as we know some are more equal than others - just like RL, some aspects can Never be balanced, despite all the trying. it does not detract from the fact that people are endeavouring to improve this aspect of the game (which is all this is - a Game)
you never know, I may even change my opinion of pvp eventually too.
sorry for rambling, feel free to ignore 
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AWhoever was the genius that thought placing AV's in a PvP zone should be given a reward for having no clue about PvP objectives and design.
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Only read the OP's post, but isn't the reason they're there that they help when you play the RV game (What the zone was originally meant for) of capturing Pillboxes and trying to beat the other team?
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Zones are meant to have something to play for and when you win the zone AVs/Heroes come and help to turn the tide against your favour to balance things.
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dont talk pvp u never do it so get out of the topic please
well first off you need to spec your build for pvp to have any kinda of chance.
2nd With the IO introduction you need to spend money on some set to beable to compete.
Then there is the Elities additude amonge some and hell yes its there in PvE. They are just easyer to deal with since you can just quit the team. But since there is alot less players pvpin you cant just ignore those.
Since i enjoy the game as a causual gamer it needs to be easy for me to pickup and begin with. And atm its just not that for pvp.
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AWhoever was the genius that thought placing AV's in a PvP zone should be given a reward for having no clue about PvP objectives and design.
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Only read the OP's post, but isn't the reason they're there that they help when you play the RV game (What the zone was originally meant for) of capturing Pillboxes and trying to beat the other team?
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Zones are meant to have something to play for and when you win the zone AVs/Heroes come and help to turn the tide against your favour to balance things.
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dont talk pvp u never do it so get out of the topic please
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^ And it's attitudes likes this that can put people off trying it.
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AWhoever was the genius that thought placing AV's in a PvP zone should be given a reward for having no clue about PvP objectives and design.
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Only read the OP's post, but isn't the reason they're there that they help when you play the RV game (What the zone was originally meant for) of capturing Pillboxes and trying to beat the other team?
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Zones are meant to have something to play for and when you win the zone AVs/Heroes come and help to turn the tide against your favour to balance things.
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dont talk pvp u never do it so get out of the topic please
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^ And it's attitudes likes this that can put people off trying it.
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He has a point though, even if it was not conveyed in the appropriate manner.
you want people to pvp and when they state something you dont agree on. you tell em to go [censored] them selfs and then wonder why some people dont pvp?
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He has a point though, even if it was not conveyed in the appropriate manner.
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I don't really see why. Shannon is actually right, RV was designed to be some bizarre PvPvE zone where the AV's are there to help you fight back against the other side winning the zone completely. Of course, this doesn't work in practice because it's A) dumb and B) no-one hugely bothers with pillboxes because it's more fun doing actual PvP.
(open admission: I have not had time to read this thread in detail yet. I will when I do. In the interim, I'm going to share a couple of things and address a couple of specific points I pulled from a quick skim read.)
So, going out on a bit of a limb here. I recently had a chance to talk with Brian Clayton about the future of City of Heroes, along with others on the team here. No, I can't share specifics. However, I did specifically ask about PvP and I there's a commitment there for work to be done and acknowledgement from NCNC that the PvP in City's isn't where it should be. The changes needed to make the current PvP system into something really, really good and industry-leading are not insubstantial.
The comments about The Hollows being worked on jumped out at me in particular on a skim read. The Hollows revamp was a tiny amount of work by comparison with revamping the PvP system. Whether that got done or not had zero impact on PvP work in the grand scheme of things. It was something War Witch got to do because there was an amount of time available in her schedule in which she could get that work done. There was a clear reason why Hollows was generally avoided, and the work done was to address that and was addressable with a clearly defined amount of work fit into a small window in a tight schedule. Any belief that working on updating The Hollows was resources "wasted" by not being allocated to PvP is really misleading.
As far as balance is concerned, in the past there was Castle and ... errr, Castle. Now there's Castle and Castle's minions. More resource = more opportunity for balance, both in PvE and PvP, to be more systematically addressed. We're already seeing the first signs of this.
As I mentioned earlier, there is a commitment there for work to be done. The very first part of working on improved PvP balance commenced with i12 and will continue through i13 and beyond. All I can say for now is wait and see: PvP is certainly on the radar as needing work. I think PvP in CoX has a future that's worth waiting for, but there's absolutely no timeline that can be attached to that.
Right now is the time to post reasoned discussion points, suggestions and criticisms. And be patient. It isn't the time to get frustrated and rant or make threats about what must or must not be done. The team is (re)building, it's a great time for you to be heard: the best way to do that is rein in your frustrations of the past and current situation for PvP and instead let us know what you'd like to see for the future.
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you want people to pvp and when they state something you dont agree on. you tell em to go [censored] them selfs and then wonder why some people dont pvp?
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QFT
TO GET MORE PEOPLE TO PVP YOU NEED TO APPEAL TO THOSE THAT DONT DO IT, NOT THOSE THAT DO!!!
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AWhoever was the genius that thought placing AV's in a PvP zone should be given a reward for having no clue about PvP objectives and design.
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Only read the OP's post, but isn't the reason they're there that they help when you play the RV game (What the zone was originally meant for) of capturing Pillboxes and trying to beat the other team?
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Zones are meant to have something to play for and when you win the zone AVs/Heroes come and help to turn the tide against your favour to balance things.
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dont talk pvp u never do it so get out of the topic please
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^ And it's attitudes likes this that can put people off trying it.
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He has a point though, even if it was not conveyed in the appropriate manner.
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He has no point.
Correction.
I do PvP when PvPed against.
This however, doesn't make a difference. Anyone can discuss the topic.
Some people don't bother with PvP in this game because it still needs work. End of Story.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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you want people to pvp and when they state something you dont agree on. you tell em to go [censored] them selfs and then wonder why some people dont pvp?
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QFT
TO GET MORE PEOPLE TO PVP YOU NEED TO APPEAL TO THOSE THAT DONT DO IT, NOT THOSE THAT DO!!!
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You need to appeal to everyone. Not specific groups.
Everyone should comment on it, whether they PvP or not. Comment as in constructive. Why? because everyone has access to it, whether they want it or not. Except the trial players, they can go rot. Or buy the game.
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you want people to pvp and when they state something you dont agree on. you tell em to go [censored] them selfs and then wonder why some people dont pvp?
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QFT
TO GET MORE PEOPLE TO PVP YOU NEED TO APPEAL TO THOSE THAT DONT DO IT, NOT THOSE THAT DO!!!
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You need to appeal to everyone. Not specific groups.
Everyone should comment on it, whether they PvP or not. Comment as in constructive. Why? because everyone has access to it, whether they want it or not. Except the trial players, they can go rot. Or buy the game.
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How can you appeal to everyone though? You can aim it everyone, but it won't appeal to everyone though. Some people just avoid PvP regardless. Also, in this day and age, you need to have a PvP Build in order to PvP and some people, like myself, aren't willing to have them as they prefer PvE.
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AWhoever was the genius that thought placing AV's in a PvP zone should be given a reward for having no clue about PvP objectives and design.
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Only read the OP's post, but isn't the reason they're there that they help when you play the RV game (What the zone was originally meant for) of capturing Pillboxes and trying to beat the other team?
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Zones are meant to have something to play for and when you win the zone AVs/Heroes come and help to turn the tide against your favour to balance things.
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dont talk pvp u never do it so get out of the topic please
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Last I checked, you don't own the forums and I do recall these forums being public.
Contact Information!
Twitter: @TonyParkeze
Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91
Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
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Right now is the time to post reasoned discussion points, suggestions and criticisms. And be patient. It isn't the time to get frustrated and rant or make threats about what must or must not be done. The team is (re)building, it's a great time for you to be heard: the best way to do that is rein in your frustrations of the past and current situation for PvP and instead let us know what you'd like to see for the future.
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Truth be known I really had fun with the Sirens Call event when it was completely filled and the zone was played for. With PvE characters you could see someone get ganked and throw in those AoEs or use NPCs instrumentally.
I enjoy playing for the zones as intended but its not easy to get it filled enough so that each side is equally maxxed and we can all feel like in some way, come whatever way, no matter how we do, contributed to a bigger picture.
World Server PvP would be the best thing imo, along with ironing out the balance flaws.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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World Server PvP would be the best thing imo, along with ironing out the balance flaws.
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At the risk of being tarred and feathered, I am going to say this:
PvP should be like WoW PvP.
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Twitter: @TonyParkeze
Facebook: www.facebook.com/anthonyjp91
Email: anthonyjp91@gmail.com
One would hope so, although inevitably people will prefer Devs to focus on their preferred aspect of the game.
From the Dev point of veiw they would like to focus on as high as possible subscription rates. I would imagine this is a balance of a) Focussing attention where most player base is (i.e. PvE) and b) trying to draw in new customers (PvE and PvP)
If I was a dev, I would probably keep maintaining PvE expansion.
In terms of resources put to PvP, my priority would be to close the gap between PvP and PvE builds as much as possible, before doing anything else.