A good place to start would be by making all power sets a viable option in PvP. But I'm not sure if its worth doing PvP in CoH as the zones seem dead (unless there filled with stealthed mobs).
Hopefully the Devs are going to look at other how other PvE games handle there PvE and take some ideas from them. Lotro has a good system in Ettenmoors where you have a mix of PvE and PvP you need to take over certian parts of the map to be able to enter the The Delving of Frór. Where you can riad for items that let you get special PvP gear. But of the other side take over the moors they can then enter The Delving of Frór and Kick the other team out via defeating them.
Also if you look at WOW Battel grounds system its a lot better than CoH/V system it has set objectives and set team sizes. And even if you lose you still end up with some thing.
The most pressing problems with PvP balance are a) defence is rubbish compared to resistance and b) AoE attacks are about as useless as the collected wisdom of George W. Bush
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AoE attacks are about as useless as the collected wisdom of George W. Bush
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Unless your fighting Masterminds.
I don't aggree, the biggest difference between sets is the damage per attack, because recharge can be taken care of real easy.
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AoE attacks are about as useless as the collected wisdom of George W. Bush
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Unless your fighting Masterminds.
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1 AT out of at 10. Nobody takes them for PvP builds.
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I don't aggree, the biggest difference between sets is the damage per attack, because recharge can be taken care of real easy.
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Yep, should have said thats third problem: Burst damage vastly superior. To my mind it ranks slightly behind the other two, but is still a truly borked factor in PvP.
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AoE attacks are about as useless as the collected wisdom of George W. Bush
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Unless your fighting Masterminds.
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1 AT out of at 10. Nobody takes them for PvP builds.
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I do.
and animation times!
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and animation times!
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All about animation times
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
tbh, that's why people spend all their inf on global +recharge, there are no global -activation sets.... yet.
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
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and animation times!
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All about animation times
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The MA changes are a step in the right direction.
Yeah, the Blaster changes and tweaking the Katana and MA times - all going in the right direction.
But it still doesnt address the huge gap between AoE and ST. In PvE the former rules, in PvP you just have a longish animation, lowish damage, high endurance cost attack that will gimp you.
Depends on the power. I'd laugh at a Fire Blaster not taking Fire Ball to be honest for PvE and PvP.
Ranged AoE's are usable but require a little more work in the build to mitigate the longer recharge, higher end cost and lower accuracy. In todays day and age that's reasonably easy to do even with cheap IO's.
PBAoE's and Targetted AoE's, however, aren't that awesome. But they can't really fix that.
Maybe if in PvP an AoE power (except nukes) is used against a single target it would cost less endurance - say half or a third.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
It might be better to give a straight net end reduction in PvP (20% say). Even with the pitiful choice of AoE Sets you'd be looking at good, workable numbers.
I agree with a lot of whats been said but its not just what the Devs should do for PvP though.
A person with a PvE build or a naturally disadvantaged character to say person A should be able to PvP for fun and walk away from person A sharing a certain level of individual respect win or lose.
You can't always judge peoples abilities based on their build. Some builds just have an "I win button" compared to another no matter whose playing it.
I think that a character is an extension of no one, nothing personal needs to be brought into it nor should egos be fueled by it. Its all done for a different kind of fun or challenge. But it's like anything though you come across people who have nothing better to do with their time than act like they're somebody from it all and put others off.
Team PvP should be rather good, much more balanced than duels, however some people like to always win and align themselves with people who can provide characters that pretty much will always win. The game would be much more interesting when either side stands a chance of losing I would of thought. So for me it'll pay be more sociable and pass your 'best man' over to losing side and no matter what side your on provide feedback thats constructive.
The idea of; damage per second of cast time not being included in the original equation; that certain effects and damage types are more commonly resisted/unresisted and that defense in PvP is a joke makes me think "why box in a match rigged by the referee?" with a character of concept.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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You can't always judge peoples abilities based on their build. Some builds just have an "I win button" compared to another no matter whose playing it.
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Actually yes you can.A player can play an IWIN button character and be rubbish with it.Players like this are spotted from miles away.In fact the way people handle builds can distinguish between players that know what they are doing and those that dont in PvP.PvP is not PvE mashbutton festival where people can slip away with mistakes.In PvP your error is your death and is obvious from miles away.
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I think that a character is an extension of no one, nothing personal needs to be brought into it nor should egos be fueled by it. Its all done for a different kind of fun or challenge. But it's like anything though you come across people who have nothing better to do with their time than act like they're somebody from it all and put others off.
Team PvP should be rather good, much more balanced than duels, however some people like to always win and align themselves with people who can provide characters that pretty much will always win. The game would be much more interesting when either side stands a chance of losing I would of thought. So for me it'll pay be more sociable and pass your 'best man' over to losing side and no matter what side your on provide feedback thats constructive.
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Not only this is irrelevant to the discussion but is totally out of point.PvP ethics is not what we discuss here and definitely notsomething the devs can fix.There is already petition system to work with ethical issues in PvP so preaching is not necessary about PvP rightneousness.
As for the team balance.Randomizing team PvP would be acceptable ONLY in scenario situations with CTF or tactical purposes and still maybe.And there should still be the ability to have premade teams join in.Otherwise it defeats the purpose of PvP supergroups and makes the whole thing a joke.If people want to stand a chance when they try PvP the right way is always getting some advice first how to handle characters and tactics and so on.Randomizing PvP doesnt teach anything.
PvP is more sociable than PvE anyway because your main interraction is with Human Players only and not mobs at all.
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with a character of concept.
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Just stop right there.If people want to balance PvP around characters of concept or expect to stand a chance with characters of concept than better roleplay PvP in arena with
*I hit you for 44.59 elemental dmg and i also rip your pants off*
rather than actually PvPing.
PvP is exciting and an adrenaline rush due to its competitiveness and skill needed and real tactical thought.If you take the competitiveness out its PvE with less tactical element and more button mashing.
No thanks.
On the responses now i ll start with GR.
Well i am pleased to hear something is planned for sometime in the future so i ll guess i ll keep an eye out when this is announced.
Also i agree with some of the points Cognito raised especially the need for being able to switch builds depending the purpose.
Most important of all though is new forms of PvP and reward alignment to start with and mob removal from PvP zones.
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Team PvP should be rather good, much more balanced than duels, however some people like to always win and align themselves with people who can provide characters that pretty much will always win. The game would be much more interesting when either side stands a chance of losing I would of thought. So for me it'll pay be more sociable and pass your 'best man' over to losing side and no matter what side your on provide feedback thats constructive.
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Teams are rebalanced constantly on monday nights in pocket d, this already happens. and do you have any proof about the latter part of your first sentence? I don't think that's true, we all like to team with our friends, unless it's meant to be really competetive, like union vs vigilance for example, or if someone thinks they're better than vindicate.
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
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or if someone thinks they're better than vindicate.
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RAWR!
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I agree with a lot of whats been said but its not just what the Devs should do for PvP though.
A person with a PvE build or a naturally disadvantaged character to say person A should be able to PvP for fun and walk away from person A sharing a certain level of individual respect win or lose.
You can't always judge peoples abilities based on their build. Some builds just have an "I win button" compared to another no matter whose playing it.
I think that a character is an extension of no one, nothing personal needs to be brought into it nor should egos be fueled by it. Its all done for a different kind of fun or challenge. But it's like anything though you come across people who have nothing better to do with their time than act like they're somebody from it all and put others off.
Team PvP should be rather good, much more balanced than duels, however some people like to always win and align themselves with people who can provide characters that pretty much will always win. The game would be much more interesting when either side stands a chance of losing I would of thought. So for me it'll pay be more sociable and pass your 'best man' over to losing side and no matter what side your on provide feedback thats constructive.
The idea of; damage per second of cast time not being included in the original equation; that certain effects and damage types are more commonly resisted/unresisted and that defense in PvP is a joke makes me think "why box in a match rigged by the referee?" with a character of concept.
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And then you woke up and realised you were dealing with real people, and not pve'ing at all.
The two core solutions:
1. Make PvE Builds More Viable in PvP
(AoE attacks buffed vs Players. DoT effects auto-interrupting Interruptable powers. More -jump effects. Phase Shift/Hibernate being incomplete protection vs players. Nerf Burst damage. Buff Sustained damage. The list goes on)
2. Make PvP Powers more viable in PvE
(Cant think of anything right now, have a headache. Im sure there are ways)
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And then you woke up and realised you were dealing with real people, and not pve'ing at all.
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It isn't bad thing to remember that behind a player's alt, there is a human.
I tend to believe that you enjoy PvP better, with people that actually want to PvP with you.
Good PvPer isn't the one that wins, it's the one that when s/he win, doesn't verbally demote/attack his/her opponent.
Bad PvPer isn't the one that loses, it's the one that when s/he lose, can't accept it and move on without moaning.
You looking for reasons why not many players PvP: "Attitude"
Well... when people start acting weird and uncivilized, like verbally harassing or trying to find excuses why they lose or begging someone to do something that will favor them, doesn't help PvP at all and devs can't do much about it.
"Attitude" doesn't add to PvP experience and doesn't bring more people to PvP zones.
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Nerf Burst damage.
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How are you meant to kill something with stacked thermal/sonic shields and an empath with no burst damage?
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Buff Sustained damage
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What does that even mean? Ranged DPS is pretty effective and the reason sets like claws arent is because they're melee.
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AoE attacks buffed vs Players
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Because Fire Blasters really need a buff. . .
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Phase Shift/Hibernate being incomplete protection vs players.
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Considering phase requires 3 power choices I dont think its really an issue considering you can also get temp phase powers and now double phase has been fixed I dont see hibernate being a problem at all.
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DoT effects auto-interrupting Interruptable powers
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Is this to make DoT a useful secondary effects? When you land a few DoT attacks its very hard to aid self anyway
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
Improve PvP by purchasing the new expansion pack called City of Heroes: Warhammer Online...this Autumn!!!
@Sweet Chilli