Phase has already been nerfed and its fine as it is.
The only AT/Powerset i've felt weak on out of the ones I have is Grav/Sonic. Lots of rooting, and not much damage/effect on the enemy.
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ST >>>> AoE
Burst >>>>> Sustained (as you say, particularly for melee)
DoT is weak
Aid Self is Strong / Necessary
Phase Powers is Strong
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I have to disagree with you on this one for a simple reason.
Burst damage will ALWAYS be king in PvP.The choice that the devs got to make is simple.
Buff burst damage for team pvp and give way to mitigate it in teams or buff it for 1vs1 and render mass spiking as the no 1 choice for teams.If the devs decide to walk the way of mass spiking they need to provide proper targeting and team pvp collaboration tools cause atm the UI and general interface sucks hard for PvP and is the most unfriendly one i have ever seen.
Sustained damage is not viable for pvping no matter what.Its not useful to have it because rule of thumb is the more prolonged a fight is the more it balances against you.
Burst damage is counterable through silence effects (cage) in this game.The problem is that while in other games silence effects are available to solo viable toons (mages/priests for example in WoW) in CoX its a specific team role you need to build around.And this is the thing about CoX.You need a partner to go into zones and be somehwat effective.
DoTs are not viable and will never be due to huge amount of spike heals available.
I have to say aid self as a necessity is a misconception.Strong regen in zones can be viable as well.,Brightest example i can provide is my Blaster that was build around heavy regen and with no aid self and had no problem in zones surviving even tho with low hp and having to use terrain and stealth use to survive.
Phase Powers are good at the moment with the recent changes i think.
The number one mechanic that needs HUGE but HUGE fixing in PvP is melee.Its broken,its useless,its worthless due to mobility.CoX is probably the ONLY pvp MMO where range is the king.(well ok i have to say EVE matches that too).Melee has no way to counter range.No cripple effects,no rush blows that stun without resistance and so on.Melee needs a hardcore change mechanic for PvP.Needs powers that can close distance between ranged toons and also cripple their mobility effect with Speed boost being the only modifier to this and still not 100% modifier.Tanks and Scrapper need to be given more roles in team rather than Tauntbots and to be given unresisted cripple effects.This alone will sort out a huge gap between range and melee.
There is a large difference between PvP and PvE but there is also a difference between solo/small team PvE and large team PvE - in terms of damage dealers. There isnt a lot of difference between solo and small team PvE builds and PvP builds and its only natural some sets suit one and not the other. For example is it an issue Martial Arts, Broadsword performs better in smaller teams? Why should PvP viability be different?
The way I see it is that most people have a mixture of toons for different situations and if people want to PvP you could easily make one thats more suited to smaller teams/pvp as opposed to trying to make a larger teams/pvp hybrid.
This is all from a damage dealing point of view, as far as buffers go they perferm well in all PvE and without comprimising much PvE performance can be very good in PvP.
One of the most enjoyable things I find in CoX is PvP emping. Its so much more fun and exciting than PvE emping, if you dont like the way the PvP game works from a damage dealing point of view buffers might be a better bet - like hard PvE but with you running like a madman.
I do think its ashame that not many people have tried proper team PvP and there only experience is the often frustrating zonal experience with lots of trashtalkers.
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
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I do think its ashame that not many people have tried proper team PvP
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^This.Altho my huge gripe is with PvP UI being totally disfunctional.No target calling options (need macro workarounds) no distinct target painting tools or at least a powerset or epic pool that allows target painting and is available for all sets.
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I agree with a lot of whats been said but its not just what the Devs should do for PvP though.
A person with a PvE build or a naturally disadvantaged character to say person A should be able to PvP for fun and walk away from person A sharing a certain level of individual respect win or lose.
You can't always judge peoples abilities based on their build. Some builds just have an "I win button" compared to another no matter whose playing it.
I think that a character is an extension of no one, nothing personal needs to be brought into it nor should egos be fueled by it. Its all done for a different kind of fun or challenge. But it's like anything though you come across people who have nothing better to do with their time than act like they're somebody from it all and put others off.
Team PvP should be rather good, much more balanced than duels, however some people like to always win and align themselves with people who can provide characters that pretty much will always win. The game would be much more interesting when either side stands a chance of losing I would of thought. So for me it'll pay be more sociable and pass your 'best man' over to losing side and no matter what side your on provide feedback thats constructive.
The idea of; damage per second of cast time not being included in the original equation; that certain effects and damage types are more commonly resisted/unresisted and that defense in PvP is a joke makes me think "why box in a match rigged by the referee?" with a character of concept.
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As other people have bust open this post there is no need for me to. I agree with TG 100%.
However, I have to say that the little poem?/song?/chant? in your sig is great. It warms my heart to know that you have that amount of talent.
@Sweet Chilli
Quote:
with a character of concept.
Just stop right there.If people want to balance PvP around characters of concept or expect to stand a chance with characters of concept than better roleplay PvP in arena with
*I hit you for 44.59 elemental dmg and i also rip your pants off*
rather than actually PvPing.
Just read reply of yours TG and I have to say I totally disagree with. Concept builds just should have as much chance as any one else in PVP other wise you just get uber builds like ranged specked spines regen or what ever the uber PVP set is at the mo.
But It does seem that PvP in CoH has become more about number crunching than the flash bang kerpow fest it should be.
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Just read reply of yours TG and I have to say I totally disagree with. Concept builds just should have as much chance as any one else in PVP other wise you just get uber builds like ranged specked spines regen or what ever the uber PVP set is at the mo.
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Oh,i think you misunderstood me.I am cool with people pvping with Concept builds.For example i PvPed with a military sniper build on defiant Assault/Devices that was a concept build.However i didnt expect to not die a gazillion times and i didnt expect PvP to be easy or viable with that character.In other words its fine and dandy if people want to use concept builds to PvP but dont expect the game to be balanced around that.PvP will always be about number crunching and viability as well as counting in every little detail because that is the nature of it.Its highly competitive when you go against human AI.
I dont expect a *Flame on* Fire/fire/Fire blaster with fly to annihilate everyone in PvP because "you know who i pretend to be and he is THAT AWSOME from a character and concept point of view".
The thing that would make me PvP more would be the ability to have a PvE and a PvP build on the same alt. So when I entered a zone, or the arena then my build would switch to build B
Sure I'd have to spend more on IOs to fill out two builds but it would save me having to have duplicate characters. As I bore of PvP quickly I wouldn't think of making a character I enjoy in PvE into a PvP build, but if I could have a second build for it then I'd shell out the inf. I'm not levelling everything twice
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
Cognito sustained DPS is fine in PvP, it may not be quite so efficient as grabbing a quick kill but it's one hell of a way to keep an Empath or Thermal busy in a team fight or a good way to hinder your opponents use of something like Aid Self or to drain him of Respites and other Inspirations.
Are you thinking of Melee toons being more about straight DPS than burst damage? Because that's a whole other issue. I think that they should think about increasing Melee attacks on Melee AT's from 5" (current) to 10" (PvP Only, 5" for PvE still). Everything apart from Assassin's Strike. I think that this'd go a good way to helping Melee AT's deliver consistant damage either kiting themselves or being kited.
As for more -Jump? Why? Everyone can buy the webnade Temp and Slows are good for reducing jump height and speed. If they bring in -Jump powers I expect to see -Jump Resistance added to the game on things like Mez Protection and Combat Jumping etc... Then you'd need to throw in -RunSpd Res on to Super Speed.
Yes, I was thinking of burst damage more in terms of Melee. To my mind it still has an advantage, albeit less significant, for ranged attacks.
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Yes, I was thinking of burst damage more in terms of Melee. To my mind it still has an advantage, albeit less significant, for ranged attacks.
[/ QUOTE ]That's always going to be the case, the more damage at once the harder it is to mitigate with heals or regen.
Melee DPS is trickier to fix because of rooting and supression. It's hard to get sustained damage output against someone that's moving faster than you (be it from different travel power or because they're not being supressed).
I pvp in RL, anything else is second rate. The Devs can't fix this. The only way anyone is going to fix is this for me is via player meets in which I can then pvp.
This is for girls.
That is all.
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Team PvP should be rather good, much more balanced than duels, however some people like to always win and align themselves with people who can provide characters that pretty much will always win. The game would be much more interesting when either side stands a chance of losing I would of thought. So for me it'll pay be more sociable and pass your 'best man' over to losing side and no matter what side your on provide feedback thats constructive.
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Teams are rebalanced constantly on monday nights in pocket d, this already happens. and do you have any proof about the latter part of your first sentence? I don't think that's true, we all like to team with our friends, unless it's meant to be really competetive, like union vs vigilance for example, or if someone thinks they're better than vindicate.
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With all due respect Rooks and I say this because your opinions are pretty much shared by me, but I am not on one server and I rarely even see Union so my opinions aren't properly uptodate with union.
I think world PvP would be good for Vindicate, sometimes your never going to meet other groups in your league and rarely doing so is a limitation.
For TGs attention.
I don't know how many times you need to be told but I can't read your posts. I can read everyone elses. However if for once you can comprehend what I am saying in its proper light and express valid counter arguements to it then great. I see that only some opinions will matter and really its only theirs I am interested in and should they take your opinion into higher regard then so be it.
Ultimately I want world PvP, by that I mean go PvP with anyone of any server ie a Union SG/VG versus a Freedom SG/VG.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I don't know how many times you need to be told but I can't read your posts.
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First of all i dont need to be told because i dont care.Second of all if you dont read the post made i suggest not respond to it without knowing the content.Cause well its just dumb.
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I can read everyone elses. However if for once you can comprehend what I am saying in its proper light and express valid counter arguements to it then great.
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That is hilarious.Bother to read next time instead of writting a bunch of random stuff.
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Ultimately I want world PvP
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I want world peace.
I've removed several posts from the end of this thread. Please remember that personal attacks and harassment have no place on these forums.
Constantly replying to someone who has you on ignore is harrassment.
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Constantly replying to someone who has you on ignore is harrassment.
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Considering that i am the original poster and Shannon posted a bunch of arguements which i only counter argued i dont think so.Also considering i havent posted anything derogatory or harassing i dont see any harassment at all.I am fine with being ignored but cant prevent me from posting my arguement on a debate.
Ignore User function is not a silence button.
People Shannon replied too.
Rapthorn, Ghostraptor, Psydock, Extremus.
Being the OP doesn't actually mean anything.
Since it appears the original discussion points have been forgotten and we're indulging in some forum-based PvP instead, this thread will be locked.
I cant really answer all those questions. But I think it is concensus to say that in PvP:
ST >>>> AoE
Burst >>>>> Sustained (as you say, particularly for melee)
DoT is weak
Aid Self is Strong / Necessary
Phase Powers is Strong
Wheras in PvE
AoE >>>> ST
Sustained > Burst
DoT is pretty reasonable
Aid Self is unnecessary, and arguably inefficient unless solo
Phase is weakish.
Again, I think im onlyl presenting concensus veiw. Im sure individual opinions vary, and there are counter arguments to every one of the above.