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Oh, and in the interests of either utterly destroying my credibility, or stopping this thread from going down a route it probably should have: Anyone who disagrees with me is obviously from the same school of thought as the nazis. 
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Godwin'ed!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
What on earth has happened to this community? Every time tying body type and height into the individual costume slots, and having them be changeable has been suggested before it's been met with general approval, but now we get a huge debate like this... (Not that I've anything against debates).
Personally, I'm fully for the idea (assuming it doesn't take a lot of work to implement, and I really can't see how it would). There's no shortage of gender-switching in comics and other related media, whether it's used to disguise yourself as someone else, to change into a gender-switched version of yourself for whatever reason, or swapping bodies with someone of the opposite gender. Transformation from 'male' to 'huge' is even more common.
The actual sexual aspects of such changes are usually completely ignored (outside of fanfiction), and I'd imagine most people would apply the same to the game as well. Therefore, I don't see it as a problem. I also don't see how it could be immersion-breaking, growing a pair of boobs is hardly more bizarre than changing your skin colour (Somebody call the racism police!) and sprouting a pair of wings.
I think it's because the topic called it "Sex Change" and not "Body Type" and thus we now have people bringing in a whole load of issues about the subject that quite frankly are a bit silly to be even discussing in the context of the topic.
Much like "Let us change our skin tone" would likely be met with approval, while "Let me change from a white guy to a black guy" would probably be a hell of a lot more inflammatory.
Title changed.
Like I said before, this is a good idea. And if expressed as the ability to have characters who can have the different phenotypes available within the different costume slots, I doubt there are that many people that would complain.
In those terms, this suggestion gets /signed.
As anything that would spark debate on gender issues, this suggestion will be laughed out of the devs' office.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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Oh, and in the interests of either utterly destroying my credibility, or stopping this thread from going down a route it probably should have: Anyone who disagrees with me is obviously from the same school of thought as the nazis.
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Godwin'ed!
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Pfft, I did that days ago!
Just to stay on the topic, (whatever's left of it) I think that if it's an easy ask, then they should allow different body types in different costume slots, but I'd much rather have different heights first.
"Idealism is such a wonderful thing. All you really need is someone rational to put it to proper use." - Kerr Avon
Myopic Aardvark on Twitter
I'd like to be able to completely customise my body type all over again simply cause one of my alts is meant to be a werewolf and he looks stupid as a human that size. I doubt I'd use a sex change or bodytype change much cause I only really like the female model (hmmmm certain female models are really nice but that's nothing to do with the character creator)
I dont like how the HUGE model moves so tend to use an over sized male body for toons that would be "huge" anyway. But I'd like to be able to really alter that for shape changers, as much as it pains me to be in the same boat with FFM.
Of course I understand that most forms of expression and free thought are considered a taboo in the states which is where the game is primarily aimed and I know I'll neever likely have a decent werewolf character in looks because of it
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
I'm totally against this, as it would utterly anhialate the small bit of class CoX' costume system has.
Imagine a new player, enjoying his first few days on game, he stands under Atlas and gets talkin to someone with a costume of a skinny, white, blonde cheerleader. Next thing you know... BAM.- Where once the skinny, white, blonde cheerleader stood, now stands a big, beefy, black boxer. What the hell...
I admit it'd be hilarious to see, but really, it'd be a pointless, stupid addition to the game, and theres far more important matters than becoming City of Trannies.
@Lukas
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and theres far more important matters than becoming City of Trannies.
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You see those hundreds of scantily clad amazons running around Paragon? 99% of them are played by guys. By that standard and yours, you're ALREADY play City of Trannies.
Besides, whilst what you say MIGHT happen, it's very likely to be rare, and people mucking about. Why limit choices though?
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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and theres far more important matters than becoming City of Trannies.
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You see those hundreds of scantily clad amazons running around Paragon? 99% of them are played by guys. By that standard and yours, you're ALREADY play City of Trannies.
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Yes, but these scantily clad amazons don't suddenly shift into the cast of 300 :P
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Besides, whilst what you say MIGHT happen, it's very likely to be rare, and people mucking about. Why limit choices though?
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If it's gonna be rarely used, why put it in? The devs could use the time incorporating sex change doing more useful stuff that will get used more regularly and appealing to a wider audience 
@Lukas
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Imagine a new player, enjoying his first few days on game, he stands under Atlas and gets talkin to someone with a costume of a skinny, white, blonde cheerleader. Next thing you know... BAM.- Where once the skinny, white, blonde cheerleader stood, now stands a big, beefy, black boxer. What the hell...
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No-one minds if you start off with a bestial head and monstrous legs but have a costume that doesn't have either, why is this any different? As for immersion please dear god remove the chest slider.
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As for immersion please dear god remove the chest slider.
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Or at the very least, restrict the max size so that they at least look a LITTLE bit real!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
But... how else am I supposed to get Watermelons through customs?
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Think of it like this, Thorny Devil: If time and money is spent implementing it - things much more useful, much more exciting and much more understandable may have to be pushed back on the roster.
As for those who're getting their hackles up at the "it doesn't make sense" argument: In many cases, it doesn't. Batman changing into a woman doesn't make sense, either - even if they did do it. Same goes for Superman. Just because it was done, doesn't mean it makes the slightest bit of sense.
Shapeshifters make sense. But that is a power, changing gender in CoH would offer no benefit (beyond perhaps a wider range of costume options) to the vast majority of people. I would much, much rather have a new powerset that allowed various disguises to fit in with the shapeshifting idea.
I don't for a moment believe this would be easy to implement. For instance, when they first introduced gender specific text on the badges, it took a few attempts to get it to work - and that, apparently, is just changing some text and an ID number.
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Good points. I'm against this idea because 1) it's pointless - nobody is going to get any real game-related benefit from it, and it will be difficult to implement, thus delaying the arrival of better new content; and 2) at the risk of labouring the point, it doesn't make sense!
For those quoting the Chameleon/Mystique examples, I'd back you to the hilt if you were suggesting a new powerset based around shapeshifting. Something along the lines of being able to change your appearance to mimic whatever enemy you were trying to infiltrate, like the temporary "Arachnos disguise" power you get on Agent G's arc in Faultline, to make the perfect stealther. That would have an in-game benefit and be worth the time it took to create it. But this suggestion just doesn't.
Yes, many comic-book heroes have changed genders temporarily, but these have always been part of ongoing plots. The closest analogy in CoH I can think of is the Vahz disease you contract in one arc, and have to find the cure a few missions later. I'm sure that any "real-life" superhero (contradiction in terms I know) who had his or her gender magically changed would be very keen to find the means to get it changed back ASAP.
Lastly, as a casual to total-immersion roleplayer (depending on my mood), I like to know what I'm dealing with as team-mates, and gender is a good starting point. At least I know whether to use "him" or "her". I should point out that it's irrelevant to me what the real gender of the player is - it's the in-game one that counts.
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Oh, and costumes in and out of themselves don't serve a purpose. No more customisation options plx.
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Are you really suggesting less costume options?? Of course costumes serve a purpose - they enable you to not look like everybody else playing the game. The more costume options, the better!
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As for immersion please dear god remove the chest slider.
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Or at the very least, restrict the max size so that they at least look a LITTLE bit real!
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Well, it does provide an easy way to guess at the real gender of the player, if such things concern you. If it's playing a female whose chest looks like a dead-heat in a Zeppelin race, it's male, and probably under 16.
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Oh, and costumes in and out of themselves don't serve a purpose. No more customisation options plx.
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Are you really suggesting less costume options?? Of course costumes serve a purpose - they enable you to not look like everybody else playing the game. The more costume options, the better!
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Exactly! And changing body type IS more options! So you're in support of the idea! Great!
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Good points. I'm against this idea because 1) it's pointless - nobody is going to get any real game-related benefit from it
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It's an addition to the costume system. If you're saying it has no benefit, then you're also saying costumes in general are the same, and thus contradicting yourself.
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it will be difficult to implement, thus delaying the arrival of better new content
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You work as a coder for NCNC perhaps?
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2) at the risk of labouring the point, it doesn't make sense!
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All the costumes of my main character involve shapeshifting. Are you saying this also makes no sense?
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Oh, and costumes in and out of themselves don't serve a purpose. No more customisation options plx.
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Are you really suggesting less costume options??
[/ QUOTE ]No, they're pointing out that you are.
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As for immersion please dear god remove the chest slider.
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Or at the very least, restrict the max size so that they at least look a LITTLE bit real!
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Well, it does provide an easy way to guess at the real gender of the player, if such things concern you. If it's playing a female whose chest looks like a dead-heat in a Zeppelin race, it's male, and probably under 16.
[/ QUOTE ]You're really best off not guessing, since you're going to be wrong about half the time.
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Oh, and costumes in and out of themselves don't serve a purpose. No more customisation options plx.
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Are you really suggesting less costume options?? Of course costumes serve a purpose - they enable you to not look like everybody else playing the game. The more costume options, the better!
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Exactly! And changing body type IS more options! So you're in support of the idea! Great!
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Ah, I see what you did there.
Doesn't change my opinion though.
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it will be difficult to implement, thus delaying the arrival of better new content
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You work as a coder for NCNC perhaps?
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No. Do you? I thought not. When a red name confirms one way or another how much work is involved, we'll know for sure. But I think I'm on safe ground when I say there are more pressing uses of the coders' time than this.
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All the costumes of my main character involve shapeshifting. Are you saying this also makes no sense?
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I don't know - I've never met your character or seen his/her character concept. But assuming he/she fits the Chameleon/Mystique template, then you already know my opinion. If you want an actual powerset to simulate a shapeshifter, why then I'll back you 100%.
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Oh, and costumes in and out of themselves don't serve a purpose. No more customisation options plx.
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Are you really suggesting less costume options??
[/ QUOTE ]No, they're pointing out that you are.
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More costume options = good. Nobody, I think, would disagree with this.
Doing the work necessary to make male/female/huge body and costume options available to all characters, whether male, female or huge, when this will be of interest to only a tiny fraction of players = not good. In fact, as far as I'm concerned this doesn't even qualify as more costume options, it's so far beyond pointless. It hadn't even occurred to me that anyone thought of it like that, until FFM kindly pointed out that my opinion is actually the exact opposite of what I thought it was.
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When a red name confirms one way or another how much work is involved, we'll know for sure.
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Exactly, and thus you should stop saying it will be hard.
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All the costumes of my main character involve shapeshifting. Are you saying this also makes no sense?
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I don't know - I've never met your character or seen his/her character concept. But assuming he/she fits the Chameleon/Mystique template, then you already know my opinion. If you want an actual powerset to simulate a shapeshifter, why then I'll back you 100%.
[/ QUOTE ]But I don't need a powerset for it, nor is it remotedly likely such a set would ever get implemented. He simply changes his appearance to suit the situation or his current mood, not to disguise himself.
Also, from an RP PoV, surely gendershifting characters add more RP options, and are a good thing? Your character can be just as confused as you are as to whether refer to them as him or her. (or possibly hir, as used for multigendered characters in certain circles).
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When a red name confirms one way or another how much work is involved, we'll know for sure.
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Exactly, and thus you should stop saying it will be hard.
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By the same token, you should stop assuming it would be easy!
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He simply changes his appearance to suit the situation or his current mood, not to disguise himself.
Also, from an RP PoV, surely gendershifting characters add more RP options, and are a good thing? Your character can be just as confused as you are as to whether refer to them as him or her. (or possibly hir, as used for multigendered characters in certain circles).
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I don't object to this for any reason other than it's (probably) a lot of work for very little benefit. As a roleplaying hook, a gender dysphoric hero's dilemma about whether he feels more comfortable patrolling the streets in power armour or a frock and heels is very peripheral to the job of beating the bad guys and keeping the streets of Paragon safe. If it becomes clear, however, that it's a two minute job and can easily be slipped into the next patch, then fine, let's see it done. But I bet it isn't. And if it isn't, I don't want to see time devoted to it that could be spent on bug-fixing or new content.
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Shadowe, I freakin' love you.
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And I love you, too, Stase.
Oh, and in the interests of either utterly destroying my credibility, or stopping this thread from going down a route it probably should have: Anyone who disagrees with me is obviously from the same school of thought as the nazis.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.