New Powersets and PVP

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What exactly is the argument against both sides having the same ATs (possibly with different names) as each other?

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Because the potential advantage gained hero side from Villain ported powers is a lot bigger.

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It would sure stop this kind of (maybe valid) type of thread and no side can argue the other is over powered. It seems to me it would straighten a whole lot of aggro.

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Buff numbers of all villain buff powers ported (for example cold buffs on defenders) are much higher than villains giving significant edge hero side with these sets ported. Unless they plan to lower the values or keep them same which not makes sense.

Also like i explained before if all powers are shared than the current mechanism will expose the vast difference of Epic sets.

Powerboosted buffs make a huge difference.

Bottom line is if they plan to share all powersets in the end Hero side > Villain side due to Epic powers and base values. (talking PVP only here and i am clarifying it).

And finally yeah only my opinion but what is the reason to go play a villain when you can get the same set on a hero with better values and better epic powers.

I am a die hard hero side player and only reason i went and got a level 50 villain was because i really wanted play some of those explicit combos/sets villain side like Thermal.

Since i can get it on hero side there is no reason to bother with a villain set wise (content wise is a different story).

This is only my opinion i repeat and how i see this.

From what i've read (and experienced in game) Methinks that giving proper epics to villains, including a tasty powerboost for the corrs and MMs, might make villains/heroes more even anyway. But i find it weird that villains seem to lay the blame on their lack of proper epics on their "weaker" zone pvp performance, when the only zone affected by that is RV. I myself find the -jump in RV really nasty anyway

But my real point is that pvp tends to even out as it goes on anyway. If the Hero side is doing too well then often people switch to their villans, and vice versa. The arena is balanced by the players choice of teams anyway. So even if the villans are as inferior as many people think, it can be balanced by people appealing to their better half's ^^

But relating to the original point of the thread, im just gonna wait and see how overpowered Cold/ defenders and Psi/ blasters are... Should be fun

I wonder if the VEATs will have any special enemy like Kheldians have Voids?

Power Proliferation aside, I'm getting confused as to all the claims that Hero/Villain PvP is remotely balanced in the first place as to my understanding it's extremely common knowledge that it certainly isn't. US side for example, didn't all the PvPing villains give up and make hero toons etc instead, giving rise to the almost exclusively Hero/Hero PvP thats in praticised by the generally most active PvPers in the community and via arena?
Surely when that's the case, something somewhere is wrong?

Are there even more than a couple or so active and successful arenaing villain teams in the EU servers?

Just an observation like I say that I find in the current discussions that seems contradictory to nearly all playerbase experience to this point, and I can't remember there being any game changing reason for any recent shift otherwise . I'm doubtful that the poliferation will help much in light of the more enlightened and explanatory theories that some have offered beyond the other simple rebuttals that are offered with little reciprocated reasoning.

Update:

Similar to how Kheldian Epic Archetypes have special enemies in the form of Void Hunters, Villain Epic Archetypes (Wolf Spiders and Blood Widows) will take extreme bonus damage from PvP attacks. This is to accurately simulate the feeling of being mindless fodder of the Arachnos faction for player characters to bulldoze through, and to give Heroes an advantage in PvP. Seriously, they're Heroes. Good guys always win in the end. They have to.

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Update:

Similar to how Kheldian Epic Archetypes have special enemies in the form of Void Hunters, Villain Epic Archetypes (Wolf Spiders and Blood Widows) will take extreme bonus damage from PvP attacks. This is to accurately simulate the feeling of being mindless fodder of the Arachnos faction for player characters to bulldoze through, and to give Heroes an advantage in PvP. Seriously, they're Heroes. Good guys always win in the end. They have to.

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I lol'd

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What exactly is the argument against both sides having the same ATs (possibly with different names) as each other?

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Because the potential advantage gained hero side from Villain ported powers is a lot bigger.

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He said ATs, not powersets.

The only problem would be the limiting factor that Patron powers would place on villains, I mean if a Hero Defender with Power Boost is buffing a hero and a Villain, lets call it an Offender for the sake of things, is buffing a villain, with the exact same base values for damage and buffs etc as the Defender, then Power Boost is going to make the Defender's buffs stronger than the Offender's.

That is of course if Heroes don't get Patron Pools and Villains don't get Epic Pools, so that each have Epic and Patron powers to pick from 40+.

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Well lets see
Empathy + powerboosted Thermal buffs+ poerboosted Cold buffs and debuffs which have higher baserate than the corr version and are unresisted in PvP ??????????????
Enough said

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this is all well and good but what about 1 vs 1 ? that defender would be <expletive>

and now for the other side of the arguement

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Lol, this is serious?

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If you port villain powersets over to heroes, and hero powersets over to villains, and the heroes seem to have come off better, do you not think that could be because villains already had the better powersets?


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Or maybe it's just they don't get a fair share. I mean, heroes seem to be getting the best sets they could get off villains and that is not happenning the other way around. IF MMs were getting kin or rad, brutes were getting ice armours or regen, domis were getting illusion, corrs were getting empath and stalkers were getting ice, the rants wouldn't be so loud, even despite of unbalance between APPs and PPPs.

Didn't most of the villain sets come from the hero side anyway?

I find it most amusing when villain players shout Oh noes our precious exclusive sets... When all of the best sets from heroes went to villains in I6....

That's your own opinion. If I had to choose, the combos I'd consider to be most powerful heroside in all honesty would be:

Tanker - Ice/Fire
Scrapper - Spines/Dark
Controller - Illu/Rad
Blaster - Fire/nrg
Defender - Emp/ whatever

Out of those, I can only play one of them on their villain equivalents, which would be a spines/dark stalker, which obviously, cant be the aoe herding monster it is on scrappers

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Or maybe it's just they don't get a fair share. I mean, heroes seem to be getting the best sets they could get off villains and that is not happenning the other way around. IF MMs were getting kin or rad, brutes were getting ice armours or regen, domis were getting illusion, corrs were getting empath and stalkers were getting ice, the rants wouldn't be so loud, even despite of unbalance between APPs and PPPs.

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The rants wouldnt be from villains at all

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brutes were getting ice armours

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Very unlikely to happen I'm afraid, you see Brutes DID have Ice armour in beta of CoV but because Ice deals -recharge it meant the enemy were attacking less (doesn't matter if they hit or miss when they do attack, just that they initiate an attack on the Brute, so SR for brutes is fine here) and thus for fury building it was terrible when compared to all other sets and removed. Of course since building fury isn't an important thing in PvP due to a bug (so I'm told) then this affect is nil but a set has to be viable for PvE before it will get the go ahead.

Now while I say 'very unlikey' no doubt some clever spark at NorCal will work out the kinks with this powerset and change the -recharge to something else to make it viable for Brutes.

They were porting the easiest sets first, /Kin or /Rad for MMs is going to need a lot of tweaking before it's not so very very overpowered in PvE or PvP, this is /Kin moreso than /Rad.

Empathy and Poison are (probably) not going to be switching sides, BaB said that they thematically make no sense because Empathy is a heroic idealology set (you don't hear of many villains have an empathic relationship with people) and Poison is pretty villainous (for obvious reasons).

Brutes with Regen...can't see a problem with it personally and not entirely sure why they didn't port it over but I imagine that is coming in the next batch. I imagine Domi with Illusion requires some tweaking as well but again, not entirely sure what.

Anyway, I say give it....4 or so months and you'll have your sets that you wish villainside, this is of course a guess but I reckon the next batch may come as part of Issue 12.5 (just as real numbers etc. was 11.5).

What effects will these things have on PvP...not much. The sets your after aren't considered great for PvP bar one (Regen) so *shrugs*.

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Or maybe it's just they don't get a fair share. I mean, heroes seem to be getting the best sets they could get off villains and that is not happenning the other way around. IF MMs were getting kin or rad, brutes were getting ice armours or regen, domis were getting illusion, corrs were getting empath and stalkers were getting ice, the rants wouldn't be so loud, even despite of unbalance between APPs and PPPs.

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Not to rain on your parade, but Villains ARE getting new powersets in time. The ones ported over now were just chosen because they were the quickest and easiest to get across.

Unfortunately, too many people are stuck in the "UNLBLANCED " viewpoint and aren't seeing this.

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Of course since building fury isn't an important thing in PvP due to a bug (so I'm told) then this affect is nil but a set has to be viable for PvE before it will get the go ahead.


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Nah they fixed this, Brutes' Fury in PvP is comic again, as it should be lol. Full fury Em/Fires were harsh
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Empathy and Poison are (probably) not going to be switching sides, BaB said that they thematically make no sense because Empathy is a heroic idealology set (you don't hear of many villains have an empathic relationship with people) and Poison is pretty villainous (for obvious reasons).


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I think you can get empathic villains, Ghost Widow and Wretch have a very empathic relationship. Plus a lot of the time it isn't personality which dictates power gain, for mutants or most science origins the powers one gains are not of one's own choice anyway. I don't see any problem with poison heroes or empath villains but maybe I'm alone in this.

I can't understand all the doom mongering that is going on about PVP which is missing a few simple facts...

1) no one knows exactly how the new sets will pan out heroside, there may well be tweaks.

2) No one has even the slightest clue how the VEATS will fit in, in either a PVE or PVP perspective. It is likely they will have psi damage, perception buffs, stealth. Sounds pretty potent for PVP with buffs from team mates. (especially when compared to kheldians)

So until we know exactly what the new ATs will do can we just tone down the doom mongering?

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That's your own opinion. If I had to choose, the combos I'd consider to be most powerful heroside in all honesty would be:

Tanker - Ice/Fire
Scrapper - Spines/Dark
Controller - Illu/Rad
Blaster - Fire/nrg
Defender - Emp/ whatever

Out of those, I can only play one of them on their villain equivalents, which would be a spines/dark stalker, which obviously, cant be the aoe herding monster it is on scrappers

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Emphasis mine.

The point being that what you really want in CoV is the AT not the powersets. You all ready as you say have at least one of those sets and its underwhelming, so you r4eally need a scrapper rather than a stalker.

My Sonic/Sonic Defender has 22% Psionic Defence and 44% Psionic Resistance. I don't think he's going to notice the Psionic Blasters lol.

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...can we just tone down the doom mongering?

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What's to tone down? Bar a couple of erratic posts that go a little off the deep end, generally most of what I've seen is more in the way of "Hold on... has anyone considered what this power is capable of with these buff/debuff values versus it's counterpart iteration and buff/debuff values" or beyond purely limited to syncing within the profliferated sets what happens when they start getting synced with existing sets and pools?

On the whole, I don't see anything that's beyond the normal realms of speculation and discussion that comes with any other issue and forthcoming features. On the whole of course. I thinks there's a place for informed concern over knee jerk theatrics. But really I don't see why these concerns are anymore inappropriate than speculations that came about what zones are or are not forthcoming, how VEATs will play out, and I don't see those threads stamped with "stop the speculation" refutes, nor do I think that any of the discussion has escalated to the level thats happening in places on the US boards where a lot of rattle throwing and declarations of leaving are getting made . I've not seen anything either in the concerns of balance questions that's come close to "the devs are stupid for not giving X power X" either so I don't see what the issue is here over those instances other than the ease of jumping to an easy rebuttal.

Isn't most of this discussion arisen from the fact that most people are passionate about wanting a complete product in all it's aspects? No problem there IMO whichever the stance or viewpoint.

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Ok lets face it PvP should be taken out of the game alltogether,

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hehe honestly if COX had no pvp i would leave the game.

What's with the threadromancy?

I blame Xanthus.

I didn't even know Xanthus was around to BE blamed any more...

No, no. He is.