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1. The OP is a nut
2. A big one, if I do say so myself
3. CoX is a PvE game, and has had PvP included for a relatively short time compared to PvE
4. There is no such thing as "balanced PvP" in any game - someone always has an advantage
5. Villains have many bonuses over Heroes, such as Permadominators, Stalkers in general, and Brutes (Scrappers that can achieve a stupid damage buff)
6. Yes, Patron Pools not being respeccable does have a considerable impact on PvP - however, as stated before it is a PvE game, and the fact it is not respeccable ties neatly into the story of CoV
7. Make a PvP Villain, learn to play them, get IOs - THEN say if you think they suck
8. This thread fails...
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Fact is your last 6 points are just wrong and therefore your first two points must be applied to yourself....
There are MANY games where PvP IS balanced, WoW IS balanced , not for 1v1 but for good v evil.
Hero side teams in generell are much more powerfull and better suited for PvP, mostly because of epic powersets.
Permadom Doms are rare really rare and expensive, you cant judge an AT by a build that maybe 0,5% of the playerbase plays.
Comparing Brutes to scrappers and saying brutes are better in PvP clearly prooves you have no idea what your talking about.
Fury isnt worth [censored] in PvP since you simply cant build fury at all if the player you fight knows what to do, crits are 10000% better.
As for patron pools not beeing respeccable ties neatly into the CoV story ...lol
Respeccing patrons isnt harder to explain storywise than explaining why fire/kin/ice troller suddenly looses his ice powers and gains fire or psi powers.
Its not about the powersets, its about the inherent numbers that the AT's bring to those powers.
It is a shame to see /cold and /thermal heading heroside as they are widely regarded as 2 of the "Levellers" that corruptors could bring to the PvP zones, in return we get storms ... will be sexy on a mastermind but to a corruptor its bacically /cold domination with a few toys.
SR on on brutes doesnt really deserve a mention in a PvP thread.
Its not worth moaning about to be honest, but it is frustrating. I am personally more interested in how the VEATS may perform in PvP as the classes we are getting have some supersexy powers in PvE and it'll be interesting to see just how far those numbers are lowered when villains get their grubby little mitts on them.
Psy Blasters will be a bigger problem against other heroes than Villains, so I'm not concerned about that.
I am kind of curious as how Mace and Axe will port over though. I have never played a Tank but i understand that these 2 guys hit hard with the right buffs dont they ?
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Another shining example of the PvP community and their brilliant way of putting non PVPers right off ever trying. Why do you PvP? For glory? For the challenge it provides? For the ability to laugh and gloat when you beat someone?
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I PvP to make up for the fact im hung like a two year old
Giving Corruptors and MMs Powerboost in their PPPs, giving Brutes and Stalkers Foccussed Acc in their PPPs and fixing Fury might go a little way to resotoring balance. I'd also like to see Empathy for MMs (maybe even corruptors) and Illusion for Doms. Do that and villains might have a chance.
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1. The OP is a nut
2. A big one, if I do say so myself
3. CoX is a PvE game, and has had PvP included for a relatively short time compared to PvE
4. There is no such thing as "balanced PvP" in any game - someone always has an advantage
5. Villains have many bonuses over Heroes, such as Permadominators, Stalkers in general, and Brutes (Scrappers that can achieve a stupid damage buff)
6. Yes, Patron Pools not being respeccable does have a considerable impact on PvP - however, as stated before it is a PvE game, and the fact it is not respeccable ties neatly into the story of CoV
7. Make a PvP Villain, learn to play them, get IOs - THEN say if you think they suck
8. This thread fails...
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Fact is your last 6 points are just wrong and therefore your first two points must be applied to yourself....
There are MANY games where PvP IS balanced, WoW IS balanced , not for 1v1 but for good v evil.
Hero side teams in generell are much more powerfull and better suited for PvP, mostly because of epic powersets.
Permadom Doms are rare really rare and expensive, you cant judge an AT by a build that maybe 0,5% of the playerbase plays.
Comparing Brutes to scrappers and saying brutes are better in PvP clearly prooves you have no idea what your talking about.
Fury isnt worth [censored] in PvP since you simply cant build fury at all if the player you fight knows what to do, crits are 10000% better.
As for patron pools not beeing respeccable ties neatly into the CoV story ...lol
Respeccing patrons isnt harder to explain storywise than explaining why fire/kin/ice troller suddenly looses his ice powers and gains fire or psi powers.
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WoW is balanced??? Don't they have tweaks (or whatever they're called) where you're untouchable at level 19 and can go around bashing skulls without being touched?? Reeeal balanced there.
As for Brutes and fury, I've gone and sat in a mob of critters building fury and then ran towards a poor controller and knocking their boots off, it can be done and that to me is what is important, if you can then who cares!
@SkullFester
I'm not changing this signature until I'm proclaimed 'King of the World'.
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*yaaaaaaaaaawn*
Whine once you see how the sets have been adapted, not before.
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im with max on this one its a lil to early to start the complaning just yet we havent even seen how they are going to handle yet. but apart from that there is a nice amount of villians happily kick the crapo out of heros on a regular basis despite the fact thre is always the doomsayers who say its unbalanced for heros
There isnt a problem on earth that cant be solved with the proper aplication of hi explosive's
Darklords of the Underworld/Lords of Light forums [url="http://www.armleg.com/dlotu"]www.armleg.com/dlotu[/url]
Scotlands Bru ill/emp troller lvl 50
Monster Bru SS/stone brute lvl 50
Carman thugs/dark mm lvl 50
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If you port villain powersets over to heroes, and hero powersets over to villains, and the heroes seem to have come off better, do you not think that could be because villains already had the better powersets?
I should also point out that this is only the first round, BAB has promised there is more to come. Likely PP round 2 will include those powersets than needed a little more tweeking.
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A sound argument, except for my previous point in another thread that heroes got two of the absolute cream of villain exclusive sets, while villains got only one, and it's not that good anyway. Most of my PvP will be unaffected (99% of arena is hero vs hero anyway), but it's the more casual zoner villain that will be hit hard and I kinda feel bad for them lol.
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
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5. Villains have many bonuses over Heroes, such as Permadominators
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Buffed Permadominator vs buffed Blaster = lol
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
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As for Brutes and fury, I've gone and sat in a mob of critters building fury and then ran towards a poor controller and knocking their boots off, it can be done and that to me is what is important, if you can then who cares!
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The troller must have been either afk or not paying attention to you at all, otherwise he would have attacked you while you builded fury or just ran off for 20 secs till your fury was gone.
Any player who waits stands still and wait till a brute can build fury fighting npcs (IF there are any around) and doesnt fly or jump or superspeed around till fury is gone (and its gone very fast) has no clue how to pvp.
Try building fury by fighting npcs while a blaster shoots you and your dead in no time.
Matey with all due respect while we all got concerns over this please try not to overreact until the sets are out for testing and we get some more feedback regarding values and so on. Only thing you achieve is give ammunition to people that hate PvP to hate it more. There is a thread we have expressed some concerns without crying doom and you can express your concerns over there as well but please dont blow it out of proportion. 
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I can just imagine the John Deere stock value soaring through the roof!
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Yeah we got a couple of big time shareholders 
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Another shining example of the PvP community and their brilliant way of putting non PVPers right off ever trying. Why do you PvP? For glory? For the challenge it provides? For the ability to laugh and gloat when you beat someone?
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I PvP to make up for the fact im hung like a two year old
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A two year old what? Hamster, or Race horse?
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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I PvP to make up for the fact im hung like a two year old
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A two year old what? Hamster, or Race horse?
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I don't know what to think about the fact that you want to know or that you care to know... *shudders*
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
Posting on a legendary thread
Stop overreacting. The powersets aren't even on test yet. You've been posting a lot of rubbish. There are some villain powersets are fantastic at PvP. (em/da ftw!)
It seems like all you post about is complaining. You're like a 7 year old boy who doesn't get the new Scaletrix.
Don't judge a book by it's cover, because you haven't read it yet. Simple as that 
ok i am late to this thread and aint gunna read all those pages of posts so i am just gunna give my oppinion
i could understand your problem if the stuff you said was true.. but it aint mate
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Villains got so many things which are really broken:
-->Grandville (endlvl zone which you are almost forced into specific travelpowers)
--> /EA which is totally broken compared to other sets
--> /Elec meele
--> broken MM pet AI
--> unrespeccable totally sucky Patron powers
--> not enough zones
--> Stalker AT, an At balanced around pvP in a game where PvP is totally broken needs a total revamp
but all you see is more and more hero buffs.
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i dont really get how you can be almost forced.. your either forced or you aint.. and my 50s villain side have 3 different travel powers... fly, TP, SS. how was i forced to take them?
I am SOOO sick of hearing ppl say EA is broken.. HOW IS IT BROKEN? my EA/SS brute can easily wade in to a invince 5 man mission and kill all in sight you obviously dont know how to choose powers and slot them (the stealth REALLY does help take it!)
dunno whats wrong with elec melee (except the bug with the move that bounces of players)
i understand your PoV on Patron powers but i think they are fine... the reason they are like they are is because villain ATs are so much more powerful than hero ATs. you can solo with ANY villain at in any power combination but some hero AT/power combos simply are unsoloable
with 1 level 50 MM and 1 level 40 (ish) MM i know the problems with pet AI... its not that big a deal (worst prob is bruiser standing lobbing rocks or DoT making the pets run 15 miles away)
Stalker... this is another moan i am sick of i dont PvP with my stalker (it has fly and no invis pools at all).. i have no problem with servivability... i done MoRSF easily (well for what it is)
as for giving doms elec attacks... this is good! the ability to hold and drain your enemies whilst simutaneously draining its end is Uber....
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Well lets see
Empathy + powerboosted Thermal buffs+ poerboosted Cold buffs and debuffs which have higher baserate than the corr version and are unresisted in PvP ??????????????
Enough said
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this is all well and good but what about 1 vs 1 ? that defender would be <expletive>
and now for the other side of the arguement
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No AT is unbeatable in pvp it all comes down to how good you are at pvp.
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tho in general terms the meaning of this is correct... i think the way you word this is void... Altho your char obviously belongs to an AT (duh) you dont play the whole range of choices in your AT so its true any AT can beat any AT but not true that any powerset can beat any powerset
and some powersets cann obviously beat alot more powersets than others
i am not the biggest fan of PvP but i simply dont see this powerset prolif being the end of PvP... infact seeing doms getting a good PvP set (elec) and couple of ATs getting storm ... there will be more Vills PvPing with a wider range
(tho there will be dark dark tanks )
Personally i'm surprised people are overlooking the make 3 small inspirations to a big one thing, for pvp. So say if a stalker buys loads of small red ones, makes them big... And has a full tray of them...
Oh hai Mr Tank!
although taking down an AV would be alot easier...
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As for Brutes and fury, I've gone and sat in a mob of critters building fury and then ran towards a poor controller and knocking their boots off, it can be done and that to me is what is important, if you can then who cares!
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The troller must have been either afk or not paying attention to you at all, otherwise he would have attacked you while you builded fury or just ran off for 20 secs till your fury was gone.
Any player who waits stands still and wait till a brute can build fury fighting npcs (IF there are any around) and doesnt fly or jump or superspeed around till fury is gone (and its gone very fast) has no clue how to pvp.
Try building fury by fighting npcs while a blaster shoots you and your dead in no time.
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Nope I was in a back street and we happened to cross paths as I had Knockout Punch selected...very easy when you know how...if a blaster was attacking me I'd just leap to them and let loose...if I die...I die (Like Rocky)
You just gotta K'now how!
@SkullFester
I'm not changing this signature until I'm proclaimed 'King of the World'.
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Personally i'm surprised people are overlooking the make 3 small inspirations to a big one thing, for pvp. So say if a stalker buys loads of small red ones, makes them big... And has a full tray of them...
Oh hai Mr Tank!
although taking down an AV would be alot easier...
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No. No Tiering up.
What happens is you convert 3 tier x inspirations to one tier x inspiration of another flavour. NOT to one Tier x+1 inspiration of another flavour.
Pohsyb has stated explicitly that tiering up of insps is not happening.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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Personally i'm surprised people are overlooking the make 3 small inspirations to a big one thing, for pvp. So say if a stalker buys loads of small red ones, makes them big... And has a full tray of them...
Oh hai Mr Tank!
although taking down an AV would be alot easier...
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No. No Tiering up.
What happens is you convert 3 tier x inspirations to one tier x inspiration of another flavour. NOT to one Tier x+1 inspiration of another flavour.
Pohsyb has stated explicitly that tiering up of insps is not happening.
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Fair play, my bad. I was a bit dubious as i was only going on the what the news story about i12 from teh site was. :/
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I PvP to make up for the fact im hung like a two year old
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A two year old what? Hamster, or Race horse?
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I don't know what to think about the fact that you want to know or that you care to know... *shudders*
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Clarification if the reason for PvP was a total lack of fear when battling against other players, or being a hero in game but feeling the need to make up for "things lacking" outside of it.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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Matey with all due respect while we all got concerns over this please try not to overreact until the sets are out for testing and we get some more feedback regarding values and so on. Only thing you achieve is give ammunition to people that hate PvP to hate it more. There is a thread we have expressed some concerns without crying doom and you can express your concerns over there as well but please dont blow it out of proportion.
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What exactly is the argument against both sides having the same ATs (possibly with different names) as each other?
Maybe one or two sets wouldn't cross over very well, thematically speaking, (i'm thinking of Stalkers and Defenders here) but this game emulates comics, or attempts to, right?
And comic book heroes and villians can share the same type of powers. So what is wrong with the ATS crossing over?
It would sure stop this kind of (maybe valid) type of thread and no side can argue the other is over powered. It seems to me it would straighten a whole lot of aggro.
I cannot see a down side. If you take your arden hardcore CoX player or PvPer hat off and look at it objectively, what actually would the problem to this suggestion be?
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
Time to break out my PvP moan thread.
I think that [insert side] is hated by the devs. Last time I want into PvP my [insert AT] - On the super secret closed beta testing server only me and other moaners know about - I got killed in 4 seconds by a team of [insert current rant targets].
I should be able to kill anything easily because of how brilliant I am.
Yes, there may have been an empath, a rad, a kin, a sonic, a cold and thermal and a melee toon all against me - SO?
But I'm Kinetik! I'm inanely awesome and should win against any odds! That's balance,
Please buff [Insert AT].
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Matey with all due respect while we all got concerns over this please try not to overreact until the sets are out for testing and we get some more feedback regarding values and so on. Only thing you achieve is give ammunition to people that hate PvP to hate it more. There is a thread we have expressed some concerns without crying doom and you can express your concerns over there as well but please dont blow it out of proportion.
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What exactly is the argument against both sides having the same ATs (possibly with different names) as each other?
Maybe one or two sets wouldn't cross over very well, thematically speaking, (i'm thinking of Stalkers and Defenders here) but this game emulates comics, or attempts to, right?
And comic book heroes and villians can share the same type of powers. So what is wrong with the ATS crossing over?
It would sure stop this kind of (maybe valid) type of thread and no side can argue the other is over powered. It seems to me it would straighten a whole lot of aggro.
I cannot see a down side. If you take your arden hardcore CoX player or PvPer hat off and look at it objectively, what actually would the problem to this suggestion be?
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Not something I agree with myself, but I've seen the more...vocal...CoV players objecting about Powerset Proliferation because it would weaken the Unique Selling Points of the Villain-only powersets. Their argument seems to be that powers you can't get Hero-side are one of the big draws to Villains.
If you're taking that view of things, I can see making the ATs as well as the powers themselves work on both sides something they'd throw their hands up at.
If you port villain powersets over to heroes, and hero powersets over to villains, and the heroes seem to have come off better, do you not think that could be because villains already had the better powersets?
I should also point out that this is only the first round, BAB has promised there is more to come. Likely PP round 2 will include those powersets than needed a little more tweeking.
I really should do something about this signature.