Salvage drops (Magic or nothing)
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2008-01-03 14:55 in The Market and Inventions
I more or less agree with you, but I'm unsure that the devs changing things around a living economy is a good idea, it usually doesn't end well from what I've heard. And after all, it is a player market, we set the prices and pay the prices. Sure, the devs could probably have set better salvage ingredients so as to make things equally attractive, but that's easy to say with several months and millions of transactions as a basis.
And for myself, I don't really see why rare magic salvage should be worth more than rare tech. Can't say that I've had to use more of either type making my sets. And the supply of tech salvage certainly isn't hundreds/thousands of times higher than magic
Icelock - Ice/Storm Controller
Command Bot 1 - Bot/Traps MM
It's a simple matter of supply and demand. In CoH the most common source of Magic salvage is Circle of Thorns mobs who are the amongst the least popular to fight in the game (it's the cries of "Oh no not a CoT mish!" that give it away 
).
If fewer heroes take on the Circle there will be fewer bits of magic salvage around and cosequently demand will outstrip supply, resulting in a higher value at auction.
If you want to see parity between tech and magic salvage then sell your orange tech salvage to a vendor (they give a flat 5k for it) or store it in your vault for later and get out there fighting CoT.
Welcome to capitalism!
Supply and demand don't quite work in a linear fashion under the conditions set by CoH/V. The prices for some pieces of magical salvage surely seem out of proportion, but that has its reasons:
1. These pieces are needed for IOs that almost everybody wants to have regardless of AT or powersets. However this high demand is also true for some pieces of tech salvage (this is usually the more expensive tech stuff), but the difference is:
2. Enemies that drop tech salvage are usually more popular than those who drop magic salvage. The probably most popular villain group of them all, the Freakshow, drops tech. In the same level range you could also do CoT or Tsoo for magical salvage, but most people avoid these like the plague. And for level 50 repeatable missions there is still the council that poses minimal threat and will net you nice amounts of tech salvage while you have to face CoT or Carnies for magical salvage.
So, we have a high demand for some pieces of magical salvage that are dropped from enemies that (for most AT/powersets) are a lot less pleasant than their tech counterparts (additonally to their unnerving preference for hiding in caves).
So, while the demand in tech salvage can be met most of the time the prices for those pieces tend to behave in "reasonable" patterns while the prices for magical salvage explode because there is always a shortage and some people pay insane prices to be one of those who get the desired piece.
Now, what should be done against it? Nothing if you ask me. Any attempt to control and steer a market that behaves naturally so far can only end in failure and other problems (like magic opponents being shunned even more). Yes, this means that not everybody will be able to afford everything they might want to have, but it also means that everybody can make a fortune with a few lucky drops. It makes things more interesting. 
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Everything is pretty much worthless until level 35 
.
Some good points here, but I have to agree - there are [retty much 3 pieces of rare salveage that are worth money - Hamidon Goo, Prophecy and Langean Soil. I will go out of my way to hunt CoT or find Carnie missions just to have a chance of dropping something worthwhile! Standard/Tech salvage if OK at low lvl as the pittance it makes is enough to buy enhancements - but at lvl 50 when you are trying to kit out with Numinas convalescence at a total cost of around 60mil inf, tech salvage becomes a nuisance! If some recipes were amended/new recipes added to make use of Rare Tech in the way that Rare Magic is needed then the value of these would increase surely?
Great first post Carpenter
Golden-Phoenix - Lvl 50 Fire/Fire Tank
Oodja Nikabolokov - Lvl 50 SS/WP Brute
Baby-Phoenix - Lvl 50 Peacebringer
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could Chuck Norris?
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Everything is pretty much worthless until level 35 .
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no, common drops have paid for my last few alts to be fully SO'd up at L22.
And its also a fallacy that COT are tough. After L40 they are one of the easiest factions in the game. Behemoths, Air Thorns and Death Mages are about all you face.
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no, common drops have paid for my last few alts to be fully SO'd up at L22.
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Ah, the massive financial strain of level 25 SOs. How was it done all these years?
Wait... what are SOs?
Yes, COT are easy.
The only thing remotely tough about higher-level CoT are the twisty underground maps. They're very easy even with something like an INV tanker that doesn't have notable resistances to Dark/Cold/Fire/Energy.
Even the level 50 boss-level mages don't mez that often, and it's easy to shake their accuracy debuff... most PUGs are just scarred by their prior experiences fighting CoT in the hollows or the Envoy of Shadows AV.
There are also at least two level 50 outdoor maps that feature arcane-salvage-dropping-enemies on CoH.
CoV actually has a tougher time of it at farming magic salvage in large quantities since there are zero level 50 outdoor arcane-salvage-dropping-mob maps on CoV. However the "trickle" of salvage earned whilst playing normally through standard content is higher since longbow are prone to drop a fair bit of magic salvage.
Last I checked the big-earners were Prophecy, Pangean Soil, Essence of the Furies, Magical Conspiracy and Hamidon Goo. The lower level stuff like Deific Weapon and Enchanted Impervium were getting a lot less costly.
CoT aquired thire reputation for toughness because of the Orembenga maps being such a pain, and because of the ETCs before they where nerfed.
I really should do something about this signature.
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There are also at least two level 50 outdoor maps that feature arcane-salvage-dropping-enemies on CoH.
[/ QUOTE ]IIRC, at least two carnie maps, the behemoths, maybe some CoT ones, few wolf maps (sadly all timed, I wish I had a pre-nerf US char...), and I'm fairly sure there's some BP too.
There's a "Ghost" train one too, and the "Shadows" one with Preatorian enemies.
But they're considerably more annoying and less efficient than the Behemoth or Carnie maps...
I should have been more clear in my first post
What I would've expected by now is that when people saw that magic salvage was(is) more sought after they farm for it, thus increasing supply while demand stay roughly the same, leading to lower prices. Perhaps we're just not there yet?
Icelock - Ice/Storm Controller
Command Bot 1 - Bot/Traps MM
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There are also at least two level 50 outdoor maps that feature arcane-salvage-dropping-enemies on CoH.
[/ QUOTE ]IIRC, at least two carnie maps, the behemoths, maybe some CoT ones, few wolf maps (sadly all timed, I wish I had a pre-nerf US char...), and I'm fairly sure there's some BP too.
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psychic Clockwork also drop arcane salvage, and there are 2 maps of those
Yeah, more than two actually, but they are a pain. They scatter all over the place. And don't even think about it if you are vunerable to psi damage or have no mez protection.
I really should do something about this signature.
i just hunt CoT along the river bit in foudners fall backwards and forwards its pretty easy constant spawns mixture of bosses etc 1 straight route 4-5 mobs per grp Hmmmmm
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there are Pretty much 3 pieces of rare salvage that are worth money - Hamidon Goo, Prophecy and Pangean Soil
[/ QUOTE ]These 3 are all worth good inf (individually)...but then so are Essence of the Furies, Diefic Weapon and Magical Conspiracy. Of the 3 you named GP... Goo isn't that expensive (generally). But these magical ones are worth loads more than their tech counterparts...
Main 50 & Badger Nine Claws Claws/Regen/Body
Other 50's Ph10x Brute Unjust Law Tanker Samantha Urai Scrapper Codename 1250 Scrapper
Cepheus Defender Nilus Scrapper Electro Field Blaster S.PONGE Tanker
Arcane salvage isn't hard to find, just a little time consuming. Striga, Dark Astoria (Banished Pantheon) and the Shadow Shard (CoT, Reflections, Rularuu) all contain large groups of foes that drop it if you don't fancy farming missions.
Octavian Vanguard
@ohmsEU and @ohms 2
Badging character: Bimble on the Union server, Badgehunter.com and City Info Tracker.
i have found tech drops alot more then Arcane, even in arcane drop mission i still get more tech coming out then the Arcane and i like to run alot of cot mission as i can
No comments about necroing threads, please.
I wanted to complain about the price of Luck Charms, so I did a search and this thread explains it a little.
I'd suggest that either they replace Luck Charm in some plain invention enhancements: Invention: Accuracy, level 10, 15, (as well as 20 & 25) etc.. seriously... how could any new player craft these?
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
Luck Charms drop often enough if you are in the correct level range.
It's not intended that low level characters be fully IOed up though, they get TOs and DOs.
The best thing to do at level 12-19 is to sell any Luck Charms that drop, and use the inf to buy DOs.
I really should do something about this signature.
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It's not intended that low level characters be fully IOed up though, they get TOs and DOs.
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I'm sorry, I didn't see this anywhere in the manual. If it were true then surely these IOs would not exist.
The fact that many low level IOs are used by high level players is an indication of a flaw in the invention system and the high price of components necessary for low level recipes is an indication of a flaw in the market system.
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
You won't see any mention of IOs in the manual: the game was designed to be played with TOs, DOs, and SOs. IOs where a later optional addition. It says that in the in game hints.
Besides which, a +3 TO gives a bigger bonus than a lebvel 10 IO and a +3 DO gives a bigger bonus than a level 15 IO. And an SO gives a bigger bonus than any IO under levele 30.
I really should do something about this signature.
I guess when you get to the level 50 and start filling out those mission badges etc you have so much inf floating arround that 50k for a bit of low level magic salvage is small beans.
When ever I craft stuff like this for badges, I sell the IOs starting @ 25inf, so there is plenty of scope for low levels to buy them.
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You won't see any mention of IOs in the manual: the game was designed to be played with TOs, DOs, and SOs. IOs where a later optional addition. It says that in the in game hints.
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You are correct, the phrase is:
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The Invention System is completely optional, if you don't like it, ignore it. They game wasn't made harder to compensate for it.
[/ QUOTE ]http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Loading_Screen_Tips
What about new players who DO like it, and don't want to ignore it? It's not even optional for them, it's effectively financially prohibited.
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
I've been a player for a long while on COX so this may sound a bit noobish coming from me. I am a little confused and frustrated by the salvage drops in the game. Everyone knows that magic salvage drops are worth more than all the others put together. I find it irritating that when mishing against tech, natural or any other types of enemy even the orange drops on these are worth literally nothing in Wentworths. (I realise that this is not wholly true, but mostly we can agree).
Simple economics I know dictates the prices of these items since the demand is greater than the supply for expensive items and the reverse for cheaper items. The whole system though seems unfairly skewed towards magic items however. I like picking up stuff and enjoy the random nature of getting good salvage from groups but find myself unfairly drawn to circle of thorns and other magic enemies since I know the drops are worth more, this itself is limiting the game experience a little.
What I am trying to say therefore is can the devs not with the next issue alter some popular desirable recipes or introduce others that use more high end salvage from other sources to balance this out. The next time I find orange tech salvage worth 200 INF Im gonna get upset.
I hope you understand where I am coming from with this,it's not a massive thing, I just think that a lot of people enjoy the random pickups (note I see nothing wrong with the recipe pickups, these arent affected in that way) and it would make all missions more fun for people who do enjoy "looting" if it was even slightly more balanced. Im not looking for equality just not total bias to magic as we are now.
Is it just me that feels this way?
You can commence the burn now.....