Salvage drops (Magic or nothing)
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2008-01-03 14:55 in The Market and Inventions
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What about new players who DO like it, and don't want to ignore it? It's not even optional for them, it's effectively financially prohibited.
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No more for them than for everyone else; I generally start IOing toons in the 20s, and it's a piecemeal process up all the way up to 50.
There's never - in my experience - enough inf to hand to get exactly what you want in all slots, whether you're level 11 or level 49. You can get something useful though, and that seems reasonable to me.
Here you go 
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It isn't like they make that much difference anyway.
[/ QUOTE ] Oh well, let's have them removed then?
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No more for them than for everyone else
[/ QUOTE ] Not the case. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking
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You can get something useful though, and that seems reasonable to me.
[/ QUOTE ] Well, I'd agree if it were true. I'm putting the argument that you can't get something reasonable at low levels if you are new.
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Here you go
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It isn't like they make that much difference anyway.
[/ QUOTE ] Oh well, let's have them removed then?
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As it wasn't me that said that I don't feel any huge need to defend it; even so, variety is the spice of life, and there's nothing at all to be gained by removing them, so why on earth do so?
If nothing else they can give new players experience of IOs at an early stage.
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No more for them than for everyone else
[/ QUOTE ] Not the case. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking
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OK, if you've got the time to run a dedicated farming toon, and pass the inf over somehow, you can fund lower levels so they can get more that they could otherwise. Not that they'd be getting zip for themselves without the help.
If you don't farm though, all your high level toons are skint too from buying their own IOs (I speak from penniless experience here), so all the way from 10 up to 50 your toons have some IOs and are working towards getting more.
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You can get something useful though, and that seems reasonable to me.
[/ QUOTE ] Well, I'd agree if it were true. I'm putting the argument that you can't get something reasonable at low levels if you are new.
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And I'll state as a fact that I've experimented with IO sets in the low teens, with absolutely no twinking involved.
Even with regular drops you can get enough to mess about with them then, if you're lucky and get a drop you can sell for 500k+ you can go to town (as much as limited slots at that level will permit, anyway).
Edit: Not, as others have said, that IOs turned out to be hugely better than regular enhs at that level. Noticeably better, yes, with multiple aspect bonuses coming in, but IMHO probably a bit more trouble than they're worth given how quickly you level beyond them and are able slot enhs with significantly better bonuses.
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Well, I'd agree if it were true. I'm putting the argument that you can't get something reasonable at low levels if you are new.
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You slot what drops. Its quite possible to get a fair smattering of common and set IOs doing that. In fact doing this to save inf in the long term is the only real point of slotting low level IOs.
Or you can sell or you drops, which should enable you to be fully kitted out with DOs then SOs when they become available. This was not possible prior to issue 9: I was level 50 before I got my first character fully kitted out with +3 SOs. It was made that way deliberatly so you have to make a strategic decision about what to slot and when.
In any MMO economy high level characters are going to have much higher buying power than low level characters. If they didn't, there would be something seriously wrong. This inevitably makes low levels net sellers and high levels net buyers.
Twinking is considered an explot. Therefore the game is balanced around characters that are not twinked.
I really should do something about this signature.
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It's not intended that low level characters be fully IOed up though, they get TOs and DOs.
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I'm sorry, I didn't see this anywhere in the manual. If it were true then surely these IOs would not exist.
The fact that many low level IOs are used by high level players is an indication of a flaw in the invention system and the high price of components necessary for low level recipes is an indication of a flaw in the market system.
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Well you can IO at low levels. I often do with a few Accuracy IOs in the teens, just so I don't have to worry about them for a while. But generally SOs are better until the 30s so I stick with them. I might also add 3 way set IOs (Acc/Mez/Recharge for example) to some powers in the 20s (AOE Holds and Fearsome Stare for example) since you can get them cheap.
Never found them too expensive really, Salvage drops generally pay for them pretty well. But as Standoff says its a piece by piece system, I don't hit 32, respec and fully IO my build (one of the reasons I don't like posting overpowered IO builds on the forums, they're rarely practical as a levelling build)
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one of the reasons I don't like posting overpowered IO builds on the forums, they're rarely practical as a levelling build
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Agree with you 100%.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Well you can IO at low levels. I often do with a few Accuracy IOs in the teens,
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This is where my disbelief kicks in. How do you afford the components for these "few accuracy IOs"? There has to be something wrong when the components for sub-level 25 Accuracy are cheaper than those for the 30+ Accuracy IOs.
This is, of course, just one example.
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Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
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Well you can IO at low levels. I often do with a few Accuracy IOs in the teens,
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This is where my disbelief kicks in. How do you afford the components for these "few accuracy IOs"?
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Either drops of exactly what you want, if you're lucky, or by selling other drops. Plus they give you one for free when you do the Invention tutorial.
This really isn't an issue of faith; I've done it several times myself, so can confirm it's more than just a theoretical possibility.
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There has to be something wrong when the components for sub-level 25 Accuracy are cheaper than those for the 30+ Accuracy IOs.
This is, of course, just one example.
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It'd be wrong if there was any sort of documentation saying components were meant to be priced in some particular order. There isn't, and prices find their own level according to market conditions; under that system, everything's working as it should.
They drop from mobs. They are common if you are in the right level range.
They are expensive at the AH because they only drop at low levels, high level characters have to buy them.
I really should do something about this signature.
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How do you afford the components for these "few accuracy IOs"?
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Been looking at my 'just into the 20s' Scrapper today and I notice about half her attack slots are 15 or 20 IOs. I think, without looking, that the same can be said for my other toon that's level 21.
How did I afford the horrible cost of these IOs? Well, I didn't go staright to the CH and sell every last bit of Salvage I got for starters. In fact, if I've bought one bit of salvage on either of them, I'm surprised. If I can't make it from drops, I just don't get it, but I have enough that every attack on that Scrapper has an Accuracy IO in it and most of them have at least one Damage IO. Both have one set IO in one attack (usually because it was better than a TO when it was slotted). I barely see the point of slotting set IOs before level 50.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I did a little experiment on a lowbie of mine. Without transferring cash from my higher levels, by just selling salvage and recepies and then place low bids on ready made enhances i was able to fully IO myself with lvl 15's when i was lvl 12.
Would've cost me 10 times more if i would've made em myself.
Personally i sell all salvage gained throughout the game to lvl 50 and then worry about IO's. Saying this I always seem to end up with loads of Luck Charms from fighting Hellions at low level!
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Personally i sell all salvage gained throughout the game to lvl 50 and then worry about IO's. Saying this I always seem to end up with loads of Luck Charms from fighting Hellions at low level!
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Yup.. some exceptional IO's not mentioned I will do the same... at 47 you can slot lvl 50 IO's. 49 respec all reds out and then get some temp SO's lvl 50 to be playable and start to throw all inf towards the prebuild sets.
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I personally use the set IO's at low lvls for frankenslotting so at least, instead of starting with the (boring) Acc, then endrdx, then rchg and then finally dmg, I can get a bit of everything on attacks early when few slots on them. Usually I pick the cheapest recipes available since I am not interested in set bonuses but in % at those lvls and never found them unaffordable, just a couple lucky drops cover for it plenty.
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I personally use the set IO's at low lvls for frankenslotting so at least, instead of starting with the (boring) Acc, then endrdx, then rchg and then finally dmg, I can get a bit of everything on attacks early when few slots on them. Usually I pick the cheapest recipes available since I am not interested in set bonuses but in % at those lvls and never found them unaffordable, just a couple lucky drops cover for it plenty.
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This is exactly how I do it too.
Makes it a bit more interesting levelling up too and plotting what piece to aim for next. Had great fun finishing frankenslotting my Lich last night ("Oooh, Chance for Recharge Debuff. Nice").
Given the rate I level at there's absolutely no point in me waiting until 50, I'd never get to play with the system. Plus you get more bang to your partially slotted powers if you frankenslot as you go (I had EMP Arrow beautifully slotted at 39 on my Grav/TA thanks to frankenslotting Acc/Recharge/Hold IOs).
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Makes it a bit more interesting levelling up too and plotting what piece to aim for next. Had great fun finishing frankenslotting my Lich last night ("Oooh, Chance for Recharge Debuff. Nice").
Given the rate I level at there's absolutely no point in me waiting until 50, I'd never get to play with the system. Plus you get more bang to your partially slotted powers if you frankenslot as you go (I had EMP Arrow beautifully slotted at 39 on my Grav/TA thanks to frankenslotting Acc/Recharge/Hold IOs).
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Definitely the same here as far as not waiting until 50 goes; as well as the slow levelling there's also the fact that once a toon's hit 50 it's pretty much finished with for me - never been one for polishing builds or badgehunting once the level cap's been reached.
On the way up I might pay a bit of attention to set bonuses, particularly from the mid-30s and higher - if I'm at the AH and notice there's a reasonably priced set with decent bonuses available there and then, I'll go for it. If not, Frankenslotting FTW.
I tend to mix frankenslotting set IOs with plain IOs in the low levels - basically whatever is cheapest and gives me roughly the bonuses I want (usually rchg and endrdx first, then acc and dmg, for attacks). Accuracy isn't such a desperate need as it used to be at low levels, not now that we have the early ToHit bonus that tails off as you level towards L20. I used to only use Acc TOs/DOs at low level - nowadays I don't bother slotting anything at all until L12 because TO and L10 IO bonuses are so tiny that you barely notice them - plus at L12 I get a free L15 Acc IO by doing the Invention tutorial then.
Then at mid-level I frankenslot set IOs for whatever gives me the best boosts for the least inf, without bothering about set bonuses. It isn't until the L40s (often L47, because L50 recipes are usually plentiful thanks to farmers, and the oversupply can drop the recipe prices) that I start to slot my finalised build that I designed in Mids with an eye towards set bonuses. So I do think it's valuable to make up those "dream builds" in Mids (albeit I restrain myself from using purples unless they're from the really cheap mez sets) because it gives you something to aim for - plus I can start shopping for those IOs as soon as my characters hit L40ish, giving me time to buy them at best prices over time and store them up in my base so they're ready as soon as I hit 47. Plus if I have a vague idea of my final slotting and powers as I level up then I'm less likely to make mistakes that need respecs to fix them, and I don't overslot some powers leaving other more important powers slot-starved.
I don't usually struggle for Luck Charms either - my Ice/Storm Corr had looted at least half a dozen by L15, enough for all of his attacks to have at least one Acc IO. The four common arcane salvage I don't sell on any of my characters atm and save for my own use are Luck Charms at low level and Alch Silver, Rune and Masterwork weapons at mid level, because those tend to be the ones that sell for higher prices than most rares (i.e. above 10k, sometimes well above - I think they used to be a favoured target of price-flippers, and consequently the higher price stuck - they're certainly not priced that way because of shortage in supply) - but I did notice Luck Charms were down to 8k last week, so things have changed somewhat (I check periodically to see if it's still worth hoarding them).
I took a look at Luck Charms and thought they were ludicrously expensive too - but it's not true that you can't make that sort of money as a lowbie. My primary (a L13 Ill/Rad) has just sold some of her salvage in the auction house. Most of it wasn't worth that much - but one L10 recipie (kismet - temp acccuracy boost) went for over 6 million, and a L11 recipie (Steadfast Protection - Knockback 3 protection) went for over 12 million. So she slotted two of her powers out with 4 slot IO sets and plans to get a lot in the late 20s (when the IOs are better than SOs - meaning she doesn't need to faff).
Possibly this was a major windfall - but it is possible to get ludicrous amounts of cash at low level.
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Everything is pretty much worthless until level 35 
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no, common drops have paid for my last few alts to be fully SO'd up at L22.
And its also a fallacy that COT are tough. After L40 they are one of the easiest factions in the game. Behemoths, Air Thorns and Death Mages are about all you face.
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This is true. Thorns are a pain up until 40 and then, despite being everywhere, they're pretty poor. I guess people have more mez protection (including the squishies thanks to various APPs) and better damage capability at end game and the Thorns are never as powerful after that. That's when Malta take over and become teh evilest group 
Tsoo missions, on all of my characters, are a joy. Once the Sorcerer and the Ancestor Spirits are taken care of, it's plain sailing. I personally believe that people don't like them because they present more of a challenge than Trolls, Outcasts, Council, Family, BP and Warriors at that level range. And some of the drops they give are pretty good (plenty of Spell Inks, Living Tattoos and 'interesting' recipes were obtained by doing their story arcs with several of my recent characters).
The rare magic thing though makes sense to me: Inanimate Carbon Rods are more likely to crop up than magical paraphernalia (sp?) and magic, within the game, is deemed a very powerful thing so the rarity of its artefacts seems to fit.
Of course, you could always just mug Azuria. She's always losing things.
Tsoo where changed. They use to have hordes of perma-sleep spaming yellow ink men.
I really should do something about this signature.
They should bring those yellow ink men back they made things interesting in the early lvls and what with IOs now offering status protection, blaster Defiance 2.0, and the new changes to toggles they wouldn't be as deadly as they once were.
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They should bring those yellow ink men back they made things interesting in the early lvls and what with IOs now offering status protection, blaster Defiance 2.0, and the new changes to toggles they wouldn't be as deadly as they once were.
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TBH I can only see the new Defiance making a noticeable difference there.
IOs only offer status resistance, not protection, and very little of it at the low levels you're talking about.
And it's only melee types that do much in the way of toggles at low level, and they tend to have status protection anyway.
I tend to view any status resistance is better than no status resistance added to the fact that you wouldn't have to re toggle when you came out of the sleep would make low lvl scrappers happy at least (tanks less so because there protection comes much earlier)
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I tend to view any status resistance is better than no status resistance
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True in itself, but (without having looked at any actual numbers ) I think you'd be hard pushed to reduce sleep duration by more than 10% or so with low level IOs, even if you were going out of your way to slot for that.
Given that you come out of sleep anyway if damaged I can't see that 10% difference amounting to much in practice.
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added to the fact that you wouldn't have to re toggle when you came out of the sleep would make low lvl scrappers happy at least (tanks less so because there protection comes much earlier)
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Perhaps more of an effect, but as it only applies to one AT over a fairly narrow level range I still wouldn't call it that big a change overall.
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What about new players who DO like it, and don't want to ignore it? It's not even optional for them, it's effectively financially prohibited.
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I must have found some exploit then, seeing as I have IOs on my low-level alts. I made them from dropped salvage. It isn't like they make that much difference anyway.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.