At which point is the line crossed?

Alrightey, first of this isn't Augury posting. It's Syracuse. Syracuse. If my astonishing reputation and concrete aura of fear is unknown to you, then simply nod blankly and replace Augury's name with my own. Then possibly scream in fear to appease me ego.

With that out of the way...

Myself and Augury have been planning a couple of character concepts for a duo when Issue 11 hits, but I'm likely to be the one actively roleplaying (whereas she PvEs about a billion times longer than me, yet still keeps stealing my Influence and recipes all the same). BUT THAT'S IRRELEVANT. My point is both characters revolve around an alternate timeline where the Allies lost the Second World War, allowing the You-Know-Who party to secure victory and move onto a world run under their banner.

Here's where it gets interesting. How close do you think it's acceptable for a player to get to playing such a concept without being grossly offensive or just outright junky in execution? The general style, that atmosphere around them...it's got the hallmarks of villainy before you've even started! We'd just rather not come off as too insensitive, but at the same time we'd prefer not to end up making things too silly or limp.

So. How far do you think someone should go before saying "oop, not roleplaying much more than that"? Or do you think such ideas should be steered clear of altogether? Obviously, preaching or glorifying what these people did on an OOC level is straight out. No matter how well accepted the characters are, we know where the OOC/IC boundary is for THAT rhetoric.

i think most wont be TOO offended as long as you don't go marching about shouting "Kill zee jews!" (in fact, many in Germany didn't know that the jews being 'sent east' meant they where being killed. its possible that if the nazis won, the death camps may well of been glossed over entirely)

just be prepared to apologise a lot OOC, and have a lot of IC opposition

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Myself and Augury have been planning a couple of character concepts for a duo when Issue 11 hits, but I'm likely to be the one actively roleplaying (whereas she PvEs about a billion times longer than me, yet still keeps stealing my Influence and recipes all the same). BUT THAT'S IRRELEVANT. My point is both characters revolve around an alternate timeline where the Allies lost the Second World War, allowing the You-Know-Who party to secure victory and move onto a world run under their banner.

[/ QUOTE ]I think that's already part of the CoX history. Reichsman walked under the flag of the Axis America universe and tried to invade but was beaten back by the Freedom Phalanx.

So if anything you're actually staying true to the game's history.

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Just be prepared to apologise a lot OOC, and have a lot of IC opposition

[/ QUOTE ]I think that sums it up well enough.

No doubt they must still have some opposition, perhaps even the same opposition...

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Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

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i think most wont be TOO offended as long as you don't go marching about shouting "Kill zee jews!" (in fact, many in Germany didn't know that the jews being 'sent east' meant they where being killed. its possible that if the nazis won, the death camps may well of been glossed over entirely)

just be prepared to apologise a lot OOC, and have a lot of IC opposition

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Basically what Lunk said.

You say OOC glorification?
What about IC glorification? I think this might take a fair bit of OOC appologies.


Oh, and...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It's Syracuse! RUUN RUN for your sanity!

Confincing enough, or over the top?

The first question I thought of was, "Are these supposed to be heroes or villains?".

After all, in their own timeline they may have been seen as heroes (if that is what you are creating) and were doing the right thing (preventing muggings, stopping gang warfare, etc), but they would simply be doing it against a different political backdrop. so I guess it depends how political your characters are going to be as well.

I'm assuming these characters are still from "the present", just a present which is in a different timeline/dimension?

Well, here's where I march boldly down the avenue of rhetoric:

There are posters all over Paragon which laud "Earth for Earth People!" and there's also a fair few anti-mutant movements, so I don't imagine your concept really would jar overmuch. It's essentially the same thing happening in Paragon under a different name. Actually, that's why Marvel Comics and super-heroes were created; a pointed statement against racism and discrimination, though it was done as "below the radar" as possible.

When Captain America was created and shown punching Adolph Hitler in the jaw, Marvel actually got a load of hate mail (scary, but true). It's a common theme and the "what if" of the Nazi powers gaining control is quite possible, and I imagine there's actually loads of scope with it as it doesn't need to follow the knee-jerk "Only the Master Race must survive!" What if they were pro-mutant? There's loads of conspiracy theories about Adolph Hitler being a puppet for a magi-based cult which was trying to garner magical weapons to further their cause, the breeding of superhumans might mean they were more sympathetic to the mutant cause, and merely used Hitler's rhetoric and stage presence as a screen. Maybe the Council itself is actually controlled by the Reich of Ages...

Honestly, the name "Nazi" is what gives people chills, but the concept itself is everywhere in CoH...frighteningly enough, that seems to somehow make it okay and more palatable.

Either way, I say go with it and run, people can either choose to be part of it or not. To my surprise, my own character Loup Garou managed to turn an anti-mutant villian type around (and Jean-Luc was pretty surprised himself!). So anything is possible.

I don't think there will be too much trouble if you RP maturely. Two annoying brats spamming "Heil Hitler" at random or otherwise overdoing their assumed roles would probably be seen as a lot more offensive than two mature RPers who take a somewhat more subtle approach. When played well most people probably wouldn't even notice unless they read the background story. At a first glance it could be just a slight German accent (one more thing that shouldn't be overdone unless it's intended to be comedy RP), the occasional German "mistake" in a sentence and a preference for uniform-like clothing. This would probably help in making clear that you are indeed RPing and not some nazi jerk spreading propaganda (and save you a lot of OOC apologies).
However, this is a nice concept and you will probably have fun with it. So just go ahead.

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Oh, and...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAA! It's Syracuse! RUUN RUN for your sanity!

Confincing enough, or over the top?

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Yeeeeeeeeeeessssssss, feel the feeeeeear inside you. :>

Anyway, thanks for the responses guys. Must admit I'm rather surprised by the general acceptance of it - seen similar questions asked on other forums, and the subject never really ended too well. Still, I'm going to mull over what's been mentioned and craft my character accordingly; Reichsman and so on completely skipped me by, which could potentially add another edge.

BUT. We shall see eventually. For now, I has research to do.

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I don't think there will be too much trouble if you RP maturely. Two annoying brats spamming "Heil Hitler" at random or otherwise overdoing their assumed roles would probably be seen as a lot more offensive than two mature RPers who take a somewhat more subtle approach. When played well most people probably wouldn't even notice unless they read the background story. At a first glance it could be just a slight German accent (one more thing that shouldn't be overdone unless it's intended to be comedy RP), the occasional German "mistake" in a sentence and a preference for uniform-like clothing. This would probably help in making clear that you are indeed RPing and not some nazi jerk spreading propaganda (and save you a lot of OOC apologies).
However, this is a nice concept and you will probably have fun with it. So just go ahead.

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This. (Sorry, just getting in on the trend for doing that!)

Seriously, if you do this well and maturely, you shouldn't have too many problems. In the alternative universe, they may or may not be villains, may not wear uniforms etc. The only discernable difference could be in their politics which you would only discover if you interacted with them. If done subtly, the only problems I can imagine you would face would be people unable to keep OOC feelings out of IC roleplay or someone who might read your bio, take offence and petition you. I seem to remember a problem with a similarly based SG a while ago which faced similar problems.

If however you goosestep around PD in jackboots, grey uniforms, sounding like Herr Flick, expect a lot of grief...! Either way, good luck.

I think it's very important to keep issues like the Holocaust and the Nazi's in the minds of the present generation, so as to avoid such horror's ever coming to pass again. So much of today's racism that I've experienced seems to come from naivity and mis-education.

Use this opportunity to teach and enlighten others, and you'll be doing it for the right reasons.

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So much of today's racism that I've experienced seems to come from naivity and mis-education.

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exactly. we shouldn't hate the Blacks, or the Asians, we should concentrate on the real problems..... like the French.



(the above is not REALLY my oppinion, please do not lynch me)

I think the two main factors would be time and status.

For the time part, are you the result of a timewarp, so that you're from just after the war ended, when their evil would be at its height?
If you're from the present though, it's likely you weren't even born when they were finishing off what they started, and the Nazi rule is just a fact of life to you, rather than something to actively help.

And the status part is also important - are you just a citizen of the Reich, or are you a member of the Nazi party?
And if you are, did you join for career reasons or because you believed in their aims?

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So much of today's racism that I've experienced seems to come from naivity and mis-education.

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exactly. we shouldn't hate the Blacks, or the Asians, we should concentrate on the real problems..... like the French.



(the above is not REALLY my oppinion, please do not lynch me)

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LOLZ, People who are different are funny.

*EPIC LYNCH*

Well Professor Terror was a former Nazi super scientist. He did things so awful that instead of being recruited he was put on trial for crimes against humanity. Yet he has no sense of remorse for his actions is even now seeking global conquest for himself along with (secretly) the destruction of all humanity so he can replace it with asuperior species.

If your going to play these kind of characters you have to accept people are not going to like it. But in the end what you play is up to you. You have to however remember that even if the Nazi's did win there is no reason they didn't evolve and change with time and experience.

If you want to do it go ahead. I think theres nothing wrong with ROLEPLAYING a evil, vicious, racist, sexist, etc character. Just remember theres a line between the character and the player.

Why go down the whole Nazi road, just choose another theme that aint gonna upset anyone.

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Why go down the whole Nazi road, just choose another theme that aint gonna upset anyone.

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Why go down any road that might upset any one?

Evil Doctor? That might offend any one abused by a Doctor or who is related to one.

Evil army man? Nope the same.

When you get down to it any idea you could come up with has the chance to offend others if done carelessly, at least with the whole Nazi idea your going to have to work at it to not become an [censored] or a 'Ello 'Ello level parody.

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When you get down to it any idea you could come up with has the chance to offend others if done carelessly, at least with the whole Nazi idea your going to have to work at it to not become an [censored] or a 'Ello 'Ello level parody.

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Oh, hey, Nazi isn't censored? Well that's annoying - my first post seems rather bumbling and tippy-toe now.

But yes, this is basically why I wanted to give the idea a go. Nazis have always been something of a fascination for me - the rise to power, the uniforms, the conduct, the rumours about super soldiers, the myths about their occult experiments, etc. In some ways they're wonderfully bizarre and endlessly interesting, but there's still that undercurrent of the very real, very obvious atrocities that were commited by the group in later years.

I understand playing one in a computer game is hardly up there with writing a historic novel, but all the same there's a lot of potential. Just a case of - as you said - steering clear of Mein Fuhrer saying 'Ello 'Ello.

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Why go down any road that might upset any one?

Evil Doctor? That might offend any one abused by a Doctor or who is related to one.

Evil army man? Nope the same.

When you get down to it any idea you could come up with has the chance to offend others if done carelessly, at least with the whole Nazi idea your going to have to work at it to not become an [censored] or a 'Ello 'Ello level parody.

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I would say a Nazi theme, done in parody, maturity or stupidity has got more chance of offending people than any of your other suggestions.

In fact id go as far as saying the whole Nazi thing is probably in the top 5 themes thats got most chance of offending people.

Just my opinion, crack on and go for it , it dont offend me, but it might others.

PM the GM's, see what they say?

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PM the GM's, see what they say?

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I'd say given the whole y'know 5th Column villian group they don't really have a reason to frown at it.

At least that'd be pretty hypocritical and close to mind numbingly stupid. And unfair.

Or, simpler and apparently trendy...
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PM the GM's, see what they say?

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I'd say given the whole y'know 5th Column villian group they don't really have a reason to frown at it.

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This.

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Just a case of - as you said - steering clear of Mein Fuhrer saying 'Ello 'Ello.

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Just prepared to have 'Allo Allo' pushed in your face IC
At least one of my characters likes to take the micky like that

I personaly would not have any problems with it, using the third reich/NAZIs is as much part of "super hero" comics as dressing up in spandex.

The only problems I can see really are those that infest a lot of forums on the net... A very mouthy and immature subset of society are totaly unable to discuss the second world war, and the third reich without resorting to over the top cries of offence.
Often when they have no reason to be offended or even understand what the hell is being discussed.

I used to post on another forum (current affairs,history,science,religion,politics) and it became impossible to discuss elements about the second world war without swarms of idiots dropping in and mouthing off.

I blame a lot of it on "Godwins" law.

lol Godwins law. Don't forget Reductio ad Hitlerum