HI, we need a tank u fancy teaming?
I try to stay a few steps ahead of teams these days by leaving them to mop up the stragglers while I start the next group, that way things are under my control, which I much prefer.
Aye that works most of the time. just recently though i seem to be teaming with people who go the wrong way and leave me stood there getting my backside handed to me while they chase a different mob. I think im just unlucky to be honest. I seem to team with nut cases. On the upside those debt badges are looking good
I have to agree with Seer: Funneling is the way to go with those teams. If they have problem with that, explain them why you're doing it and what they must do so you will stop funneling.
I don't think my gravity controller has ever sent a /t xxxx, we need a tank, and then wormholed.
Tho I must admit, I am so used to not teaming with tanks, and I love the fact that as a Grav Storm I a can tank and barely take a hit, that I do often fire off my wormhole and begin my own tanking moves before a tank can make it to a mob.
Though I do try to let you guys tank...sometimes.
as a general rule, i try to avoid teams that say they 'need' a tank. if they 'need' a tank, it usually means that they've been having their [censored] handed to them.. normally because they dont have a clue what they're doing.
Well, some people just say 'need' as in 'We are mostly set with our team, but the one thing missing is someone holding aggro, so we need you'. So, I wouldn't take the word 'need' as a negative indicator per se. If you accept and find the whole team lying dead on the floor or on their way back from the hospital... Well, that's a different and probably debt-laden story.
But anyway, in a situation as described by Rapthorn, when some team members just seem bent on making your job harder, the best thing is to let them learn the hard way, then tell them that they could avoid such unpleasant events if they refrained from [fill in their mistake here] and let you grab aggro first. If they listen you might have helped some guys who for whatever reason have missed some essentials about tanking. If not (and you will probably realize that in a few mobs) it's perhaps time for a last try for an explanation starting with the basics of 'aggrology' (if they seem to be nice guys) or a quick 'havetogothxbye'-quit (if they seem to be just a bunch of dimwits).
In my opinion it's still better to risk appearing as an arrogant know-it-all than to risk skipping the chance of actually having a good team.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
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Blasters can pull, of course they can, i dont mind playing wicket keeper and catching the baddies before they get to the blaster. HOWEVER if i say "pulling" and taunt a few then take cover, imagine my surprise when i see a snipe attack fly past my head... at a different mob... OO blimey, now weve got twice the amount of bad guys we want coming in.
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i hate this and it seems to be coming more common, i have found myself announcing a pull because there are 2 or even 3 groups very close together and i not have half of em agroed b4 i reach the agro cap, imagine my my surprise when after taunting and finding cover i see half of the mobs following me imobalised and the peacebringer leaping into the middle... the was a team wipe before any thing i typed registered. i know accepts that on some teams will need to learn the hard way
Its not just confined to Tanks.
My Rad Defender for example has Rad Infection, Lingering Rad and Enervating Field wonderful Powers if you understand them and howw they work..........
I have regularly played a tank in teams where everyone pulls their weight and knows how to play their characters....these teams are a joy
I dont quit teams because im dying all the time.....unfortunately 'EVERYONE' you try and give a little advice too has a 50 aswell and doesnt need advice from me .....its only on rare occasions that others are actually willing to learn something...
As a quick side note how many guides exist that describe Teamwork....how to play in a team.....playstyles change alot solo to teaming...I think so any way ??
Basically, dont be afraid to quit, but do it politely.
I was playing my FIre/Dark corruptor a few days back. A very effective team toon, but one who, with all the AoE, draws a lot of aggro.
The good team I was in slowly descended into a lot of hangers on who where fighting +4s rather ineffectively. THis included two Brutes - neither of them had taunt, a taunty aura or ANY AoE attacks.
After a few face plants I basically said "Thats enough debt for me, I cant be an AoE corruptor in this team" and left. Sent a tell to the team leader who was nice chap and had formed the previously good team.
If people want to play solo toons (like the above brutes) thats fine, but I cant play my team toon with them. Im sure they were lapping up the xp, but I would have been much better of solo rather than compensating for their solo toons.
So dont be afraid to make your exuses and leave, but do it politely. "U SuXxx0r" is not a good way to go. But if you join an 8 man team with 4 scrappers and 3 blasters, I would say something like "Sorry guys, Im not really going to be able to tank for this team." - you could, I suppose, offer to turn of your taunt aura and skrank, but personally I wouldnt bother.
Similarly I dont like Powerlevelling, so If I see anyone fighting +5s in a team 3 or 4 levels higher than them, I often politely say I dont PL, and leave.
Sometimes you just cant play your toon in a certain mix, so just leave!
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i have found myself announcing a pull because there are 2 or even 3 groups very close together and i not have half of em agroed b4 i reach the agro cap, imagine my my surprise when after taunting and finding cover i see half of the mobs following me imobalised and the peacebringer leaping into the middle...
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Been there. Done that. It's amazing how many people just use the powers at their disposal without thinking how useful/harmful they might be. One moment several spawns of mobs jump happily up and down on the tanker's ice patch, the next moment the troller uses his AoE immob (with kb resistance) and debt follows.
If it has eyes, you can blind it, if it has blood, you can make it bleed, if it has a mouth, you can make it scream.
Generally people without every AT are lacking, there are odd exceptions, of really good players that wonder how a peacebringer made it to 50 with the first toon but at the same time there are many people that actually think they are part of those odd exceptions. To be safe I think people should talk to eachother more and try adapting to eachothers needs but many throw a wobbly at being told how to play.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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as a general rule, i try to avoid teams that say they 'need' a tank. if they 'need' a tank, it usually means that they've been having their [censored] handed to them.. normally because they dont have a clue what they're doing.
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I have to say things like this don't generally bother me. I join a team to play for fun. It's not competitive.
There are exceptions where I look at our objective and see what we have and if it's going to be a total kamakazi mission I may think twice.
But for me, I don't ask for a players CV before I team with them.
I just play. If I'm in a really bad team then AFTER the mission I may pull out. Or, i may just regard this team as giving me an added challenge.
For me I don't regard the game as work, something where I or other players have to excel at. I just want to enjoy it.
And, looking at it another way, there are a lot of complaints the game is too easy.
Well, for me willingly being with a less than fully clued in team can add to the personal challenge of the game.
Sometimes I find that the reason the game can be easy is because my team mates are so good, we're so functional, that yes, it's too easy.
Bit like playing for Manchester United or Chelsea rather than Spurs or Man city.
Only, as I say, for me it's not competitive. So I'm not fussed who I find in my team as long as they're not griefers.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
I can get that ppl get anoyed with bad players who dont listen, but some seem to think that deats and a wipe = harmageddon. Remember a team i joined once, it was a full team (with me) and i was one or two levels below everyone else. This was a great balanced team who had crushed their way trough previous mish easy, when i joined 3 ppl was on a 5min afk-break.
First thing i do after joining is bodypull a mob causing a wery nice team wipe :P (was watching simpsons while playing and tought they had done some killing already since map showed 1 toon way into the map, stalker ofc).
Thankfully i did some apologies and most seem to take this with a bit of a laugh, but one guy got all macho on me and after some bile-spewing left us. We moved on and did some more mish easily.
Mistakes happen, deaths and wipes are a part of the game even when playing with good players so dont be to quick to judge a team or a player for one mistake. Now two mistakes thats another thing And after three even i usually do something
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Mistakes happen, deaths and wipes are a part of the game even when playing with good players so dont be to quick to judge a team or a player for one mistake. Now two mistakes thats another thing And after three even i usually do something
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I did the Rikti Tf. in the last mission I see the EBs and the custer of minions and bosses.
Did I do the sensible thing?
Nope, I charged right in- the entire team followed and ta da- team wipe.
3 am, 3 hours of TF and my head just snapped. What can I say?
The team took it well though.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
You are of course referring to conditions which are somewhat more excusable. But if you are joining a team thats On the surface not too badly made up, i.e couple of blasters, a scrapper, two trollers and a kin defender, you would expect things to go pretty smoothly. But of course only if the whole team is working on the same mob. if one of the blasters decides to go and chase down a different to the one you are tanking, it wont take long before you have lost one of your main dmg dealers. Next thig you know the kin and one of the trollers is down too because they, trying to be good team players run after the blaster to try and keep them alive (at least thats what i convince myself they are doing) and they drop as well. Team splits due to stupidity are an all too common occurence. what im saying is that i dont want to be they guy who joins a team and starts barking at people for being idiots, but ive been getting a lot of these teams lately and it worries me to be completely honest. TOo many people have i met who think they are awesome because they have a 50, and having teamed with them its a wonder they managed to get a toon to 50 and never learn what a tank does.
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TOo many people have i met who think they are awesome because they have a 50, and having teamed with them its a wonder they managed to get a toon to 50 and never learn what a tank does.
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Just remind yourself: "they'll still get to 50 even if they're at the debt cap the whole way"
I'm mainly playing a troller in the 20s at the moment and the thing that has surprised me is the number of tanks who don't have their aura when they're a few levels past the point they could get it. Doing a mass immob when the spawn first bunches up on the tank seems to be the only way to keep them there sometimes.
With my younger tanks, when I get an invite, I might ask if they really do need my help, then when in the team ill let it be felt that i simply came to help and dont actually need them or need to be there and am there more so as a favour. In short I am either there to Tank or Ill find/make another team to tank for.
Some defenders and controllers like to point, give them chances, sometimes its actually better if a controller does a non aggro control move, like Mass hypnosis or confuses a sapper, dark defenders etc like to tankmage, at any point flybys to intercepts can be made they should go for it, sometimes they might do it badly and sometimes they dont, but if you meet a mass immob opener then good luck! If a scrapper runs in first just say "afk a mo" , if you meet one that does get a team in over their heads, grab what you can thats not after the scrapper and pull them back (this is remembering your not there for scrappers) and you'd be better able to look after the others. I usually do a group and say "is that okay?" then ppl just go with it. Some enemies are highly perceptive and need pulling away from other groups, Break Line of Sight herding helps especially with quicksanders and caltroppers.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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TOo many people have i met who think they are awesome because they have a 50, and having teamed with them its a wonder they managed to get a toon to 50 and never learn what a tank does.
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Just remind yourself: "they'll still get to 50 even if they're at the debt cap the whole way"
I'm mainly playing a troller in the 20s at the moment and the thing that has surprised me is the number of tanks who don't have their aura when they're a few levels past the point they could get it. Doing a mass immob when the spawn first bunches up on the tank seems to be the only way to keep them there sometimes.
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Don't get me started on the problems with Tanking for new (To game or AT) players, it's a huge problem at the moment and is resulting in a lot of people who are playing their tanks like inept scrankers.
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But what if they want to, or aimed to play as a scrapper, with tank powers, and dont really want to Tank?
And then theres the issue I found on my tank, its great picking mostly armours and having 1 attack, but what happens at the (many) occasions when a team isnt going, or your not wanted on one?
I myself took extra attacks than I intended at lower level, just so I would have something resembling an attack chain for solo.
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Don't get me started on the problems with Tanking for new (To game or AT) players, it's a huge problem at the moment and is resulting in a lot of people who are playing their tanks like inept scrankers.
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Well, this could be a growing up problem. Up until Invincibility, Tanking, the ideal way, is frustrating and liable to get you face planted. Not many people I know even take taunt until they feel they can withstand the damage.
Early Tanks are not really set up to do their job description so some players who persevere with the set learn to scrank. So they start their formative levels that way and maybe its a hard habit to break.
Also, a lot of people don't take the set to actually fulfill the job description.
They take it to try to emulate Superman or the quintissential hero. And scranking is probably more in line with that than actual hard core Tanking itself.
So Tanking is always going to have this issue.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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But what if they want to, or aimed to play as a scrapper, with tank powers, and dont really want to Tank?
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Right. lots of people sign on to the game because they want to emulate they're superhero favorite. Not because they necessarily want to fit into our version of what this set should do or that set.
And the truth is, good luck to em. To each their own.
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Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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Basically, dont be afraid to quit, but do it politely.
I was playing my FIre/Dark corruptor a few days back. A very effective team toon, but one who, with all the AoE, draws a lot of aggro.
The good team I was in slowly descended into a lot of hangers on who where fighting +4s rather ineffectively. THis included two Brutes - neither of them had taunt, a taunty aura or ANY AoE attacks.
After a few face plants I basically said "Thats enough debt for me, I cant be an AoE corruptor in this team" and left. Sent a tell to the team leader who was nice chap and had formed the previously good team.
If people want to play solo toons (like the above brutes) thats fine, but I cant play my team toon with them. Im sure they were lapping up the xp, but I would have been much better of solo rather than compensating for their solo toons.
So dont be afraid to make your exuses and leave, but do it politely. "U SuXxx0r" is not a good way to go. But if you join an 8 man team with 4 scrappers and 3 blasters, I would say something like "Sorry guys, Im not really going to be able to tank for this team." - you could, I suppose, offer to turn of your taunt aura and skrank, but personally I wouldnt bother.
Similarly I dont like Powerlevelling, so If I see anyone fighting +5s in a team 3 or 4 levels higher than them, I often politely say I dont PL, and leave.
Sometimes you just cant play your toon in a certain mix, so just leave!
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That's the second time in a short while that i read something by you and get the feeling this is exactly how i think. Scary... (And I have a nice fire/dark as well)
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But what if they want to, or aimed to play as a scrapper, with tank powers, and dont really want to Tank?
And then theres the issue I found on my tank, its great picking mostly armours and having 1 attack, but what happens at the (many) occasions when a team isnt going, or your not wanted on one?
I myself took extra attacks than I intended at lower level, just so I would have something resembling an attack chain for solo.
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I'm glad Spad said what he did and it's not just me. I'm not the greatest Tank, and will never claim to be, but if you die when I'm tanking it's not because I wasn't thinking about the rest of the team (ineptitude probably has a lot to do with it ). But an out-and-out scranker that insist on leading the way is sometimes, quite frankly, a liability and you'd be better off with a troller on crowd control duty.
My answer to anyone who wants to play as scrapper is to play a scrapper. However, the school of thought that says that tanks can't do damage is, in my opinion, seriously flawed. My tank is a decent team tank with all primaries and most of the secondaries and all the AoE's slotted to grab aggro effectively. I've scranked in a number of teams I joined when another tank was doing a decent job and I've taken over primary tank duties when I was less convinced. If you build a tank that can't do damage it's a matter of choice but it's not essential. I soloed loads of levels on my Inv tank so I don't believe in this mythical compromise.
Where are you decent tanks when I need you??
Been playing my khelds a lot for the last couple of months. Got 41 PB and 34 WS. I can tank with dwarfs when there are no tankers available but for me I can only really pull out all the stops and play my AT's to the full with a tanker in the team. I can accept it is hard getting the build together up to 26 or more but after that my patience starts to wear thin. And even with the build nothing irritates me more than the tanker running to the nearest minion and beating on him till he dies then move to the next minion. No use of taunt at all. I LOVE a decent tanker and will stick behind them like glue. Ready to pile in after them and bring the hurt. There are different strategies with different team make ups that can work but only when people work together.
I have kicked scrankers from teams i put together a few times if they cause a wipe as they are just killing mobs while the rest of the team are getting cut down. Then they think they are chocolate being the last man standing.
I think it is a problem on more levels than tankers too atm. So many ppl out there really want to team because they want more xp but downright refuse to actually work as a team. I wish they would just solo.
Also I have never played WoW but is the pulling thing common there? Some guy had come over from it and said it was essential in WoW. Maybe this accounts for the influx of bored WoW bringing that dynamic?
This tell is sent to me regularly. And usually i oblige, however im starting to lose my hair now from frustration.
When someone tells me they need a tank, (and please stop me if im wrong here) i automatically asume that they need someone to hold aggro for them. Hoever based on the number of teams i have politely left recently, im starting to wonder if some people actually know what they need a tank for. Im talking about lvl 35ish teams here as well so its not like im dealing with complete newbies here.
It amuses me that after joining a team after being told they desperately need a tank, they wait for me to run toward the first mob, and before i even get there one of the followign occurs.
1. A blue flash as the mob is sent flying in all directions by the energy blaster who could hold his finger off that button.
2. the mob is wormholed somewhere completely different by the grav trolelr, who ironically was the one who told me they needed a tank in the first place.
3. The impatient fire blaster legs it ahead of me and uses fireball and promptly dies.
and other occurences of this variety...
maybe i should change my search comment to:
Tank who tanks. If you dont want me to tank or dont know what tanking is you need not invite me. Once again for clarity, I TANK
theres nothing more annoying then listening to people whine about me not holding aggro when the mob is about as scattered as it can possibly be because of people lack of understanding of how aggro works.
i couls go on for a long time on this rant, as there seems to be an inumerate amount of people at this level who dont get the whole "i cant taunt every badguy in the room when they are scattered everywhere" thing
interesting side note.. Pulling.
Blasters can pull, of course they can, i dont mind playing wicket keeper and catching the baddies before they get to the blaster. HOWEVER if i say "pulling" and taunt a few then take cover, imagine my surprise when i see a snipe attack fly past my head... at a different mob... OO blimey, now weve got twice the amount of bad guys we want coming in.
Anyway, the Actual point of this post, is more a question really. Do i just leave that team and risk becoming a solo hermit because i expect too much of the people im teaming with, or do i risk being accused of an arrogant know it all and try to teach them?
Theres been a couple of occasions where task forces have gone adrift because of this problem. tried doin manti the other day and the highest member of the team was a lvl 34 fire/kin who though he was awesome, after the second team wipe the empaths got so fed up with trying to keep him alive when he seemed to be trying to run teh oposite direction to the rest of the team, that they actually left him on the deck, and he eventually left.