Thundorn

ZOMG NERD RAGE!! 97 whole minutes after the scheduled time how very dare they!!! Now i have to face my real life issues. Seriously if a short delay in the implementation of an improvement to a GAME bothers you that much, perhaps you should spend the waiting time, re-assessing your life.. just a thought

You have to bear in mind that People have forgotten just how hard it was for example to hit through elude before IO's with all the +acc +tohit bonuses came out. I wasnt impossible and a good build could still manage it, but it was a lot harder.

Think of this as my trying to encourage PvP by making it as easy as possible for people new to PvP to feel like they actually stand a chance. They may not be able to take down more experienced players very easily, but its much better for them to actually see some orange numbers when they hit something rather then just Eluded or Unaffected every time.

Also, i thank Gattling for an objective point of view. I appreciate that perhaps my initial post may have sounded like a dig at modern PvP.

I feel the need to emphasize here that although i understand competitive spirit is a positive thing, this really isnt about onf of the more experienced players winning or losing. Its about getting new people involved and giving them a chance to have fun and not be made to feel useless. The only way we can get more competitive PvP in the live servers is by nurturing the less experienced ones in a friendly and slightly fairer atmosphere.

so does everyone just skim read threads now, or is it jsut people only read what they want to read and assume its negative immediately. im trying to stop this thread falling back into the hole it almost fell into at the start by people harping on bout how they used to do this and used to do that and how they must be right because they were there and yada yada yada. Time played is not synonymous ith play skill. If you take offense to what i have to say, then ignore me, on the forums and in game. I'd rather not have to speak to you. Its on test server so you arent gonna be borking a live toon, but if thats too much trouble then dont turn up. This is about helping to ger newer people into pvp and maybe some older ones too. If you dont want to help improve the PvP that you claim to be so great at, thats your problem, not mine.

yea weve moved on from that now thanks guys. I appreciate your input, and all that but i respectfully request you keep those thoughts private. all that is required now is a, "yes great ill be there, sounds like a bit of fun" or a "no i think ill have to sit this one out" as weve covered the whole, old skool insps aregument to death.

Ok since enough people have asked, assuming everyone is happy for it, insps will be allowed, Im still a little hesitant to to give tier 9's the green light though.

So if everyones happy, ill say, SO toons, and insps but no god power. Cant really say much fairer then that. I understand that some people prefer to team, but in the interests of fairness i'd rather keep it FFA to start with to give everyone a shot. Maybe if there are enough people left afterwards and if enough people enjoy it, we could have pentad teams with the same toons to save people having to mess about.

Nps globey i didnt take offense, I just noticed that Your guys didnt have anything positive to say about the whole affair, stand fast Spag who acknowledged that im trying to improve the amount of PvP'ers. I get as fed up as you guys do with going into WB or RV and finding almost nobody about and then getting flamed for attacking a PvE toon in a PvP zone.

Instead of finding fault, why cant people just say, OK thundorn is trying to arrange a night of PvP with SO toons only so that people with less money or experience can actually have a go and enjoy it rather then spending all night running back from hospital until they get bored, Becasue essentially that is what im trying to do.

People arent going to try PvP unless they either have a friend in the zone egging them on, or they think that they arent going to get ganked as soon as they attack someone.

Me trying to get new people involved by levelling the playing field a bit is my focus, you can pick out of my posts whatever you want, and turn this thread, like so many others into a worthless flame session, im used to it. But surely it would be more useful to everyone who enjoys PvP to at least give it a go.

Ok so it will probably turn into a scrapper/tanker fest, but to be quite honest thats not important. Whats important is getting people who dont usually PvP interested in coming along and enjoying the atmosphere, and getting to know people.

The fact that i have chosen the name Old skool night, because i want to take IO's out of the equation is neither here nor there. I know its asking a lot from people to be positive instead of pedantic but its not like im trying to get people to take their main toon, drop all their set bonuses and let newbies beat them up on the main server is it.

Ok so the Vindicate EGO's have signed themselves out. Not surprising really, although i would have at least exepected them to appreciate when im trying to achieve, since they are the ones always moaning about not being able to get a fight. But ehn hang on, that might be because the event rules out everything that they use....

That opinion might sound agressive, sorry sue me.

Anyways, in the interest of not turning this thread into a flame sesh, which i admit i may have been partly responsible for with my forum/arena smack talk.

Please dont get me wrong, i have absolutely no complaints about PvP as it is now. If i dont want to duel someone who uses phase shift etc etc, i just dont. Although i have done with some wins and some losses.

All i want to do, as a few have identified, is give less experienced People a chance to fight on more even terms, as i know a lot of people who would like to PvP but feel they dont stand a chance against these expensive uber builds.

And those more experienced Pvp'ers among us to take the oportunity to teach them, and to have fun in the process. Its not like people reputations are really on the line for this and its a good way of strengthening the bonds that a lot of the PvP community have already and increasing the likelihood of new people into this somewhat small community.

Ill be selling this idea to new players like mad. if enough people get invoved then perhaps the arena wont be the best option. All i ask is that if it does end up having to be zonal that people respect what im trying to achieve and dont interfere.

Many thanks.

Sounds like an excuse to me. Dont need to turn up if your worried youll get killed. The event isnt an argument about which is better. If you read my original post properly, you would see that. Its a chance for people to have a laugh and enjoy a good fight. Level the playing field for those players who cant afford all the IO's and remove the Phase shifting hibern00b culture that has started.

I know what pvp used to be like as well. You only have 2 issues on me so its not like i wasnt there. People used to get flamed out of zones for using insps and god powers. I dont condone that in any way, however, as PvP currently stands, unless you have robbed a build off the US forums and have the inf to actually make the build, you dont stand much chance in PvP at the moment. I see poor people trying to get into pvp, and just getting ganked by supposed "elite" all the time. Half the people i speak to wont pvp because they tried it once, got ganked by people who've been doing it for ages, and then had to listen to pathetic "hah i pwned j00".

As ive said already, if you dont want to turn up, dont turn up. I'd rather spend a night in the arena with 5 people who are up for a laugh and a bit of a challenge, the 20 people whining about not being able to use Elude or phase shift.

So come along to the event and prove me wrong. Prove that you have the ability to fight without using them.

Controllers only get holds if they survive enough. End drainers only get the end drain in if they stay upright and blasters have to survive long enough to get an attack off after aim and BU. stun a troller, defender or blaster and its game over. so it swings both ways. fight a blaster who uses BFs every second, phase shift and hibernate as soon as their hp gets low, any your basically just looking at target practise whenever the blaster feels like attacking.

Its quite simple, if you want a fun night of proper pvp against people who dont have to rely on insps or god powers and are there for a laugh then come along. If you are scared of being beaten and losing your reputation of being a good Pvper, then dont.

Test was pretty much what i was thinking. Im leaning more toward Arena on test to avoid any unwanted intrusions by people who may have misread my first post and taken acception to something i never said.

it takes no skill at all to pick insps. Thats just a lame excuse for people who use them. Any idiot can go to the store and buy insps, and any idiot can farm for inf and buy IO sets. A decent PvPer will know how to build a toon that doesnt need insps, or severely reduces the need for them.

All i hear nowadaays is people coming up with excuses for needing to use insps, and people who just farm all day to get inf to buy io's getting an ego where they actually dont have much pvp skill at all.

If you think you are good enough. put your money where your mouth is.

Then you should both be aware of what pvp used to be like and be able to turn up and have a fun night without too much trouble. Rather then making "clever" comments about an event that another player is trying to arrange

very constructive knight stalker. sounds like you are one of the new wave PvPers then.

Some might say the new wavers are scared to go back old skool as it takes more skill. Hmm..

With the inventions system, and the evolution of player base etc etc, PvP has become less about player skill and build ability, and more about who can afford the most IO sets and who can pop teh most inspitrations. BEFORE people get on their boxes and start screaming at me, im not having a go at anyone. I am however suggesting that in order to really put peoples SKILL to test, something more interesting might be fun.

I want to therefore arrange an old school PvP night. Might be in arena or might be in WB, depends on how many people are interested.

Rules are simple, No inspirations, No God powers, SO'd toons only. I wont plan it in for a few weeks yet so people have plenty of time to either lvl a new toon or respec a current one. This will be a free for all, so teams wont be taking part.

I suspect that a lot of people will moan at me for suggesting such a thing, but to be quite honest, Im not interested in hearing peoples arguments. All i have to say is, if you think your good at PvP, put your money where your mouth is and prove it. I know that people will turn up with the intention of teaming and then just one person taking the win, it always happens in a FFA, but if that happens, im sure ill think of a suitable penalty.

P.S God modes also include phase shift, in this case so dont bother picking it up.

This event has the potential to be really fun so i hope to get lots of interest.

Just sign below if you are up for it and ill get round to sorting out a date.

I can bring any of my toons listed in my sig, and i can bring plenty of support from my sg, Also been crunching some numbers while hami was still spawned so if you need anything just ask.

Hi guys, firstly i'd like to say thanks to everyone for the support in the first hami raid attmept in ages.

I will be attempting agin soon, but to avoid the hassle that was caused during the recent attempt, and to avoid wating peoples time, the following criteria need to be met by any people thinkng about attending.

1. HAMI COSTUME: quite a lot of people turned up at the raid not wearing them, then arguing about not wanting to 'waste' a costume slot or influence on getting one. To put it simply, if you arent getting a hami cossie, dont bother turning up, this is the most basic requirement for the raid and if you cant be bothered to even do that, i'd rather you just not come.

2. TIME: A hami raid isnt a ten minute wonder, it takes time to collect EoE's, then spawn hami, then time and patience to actually take him down. If you only have an hour, or foresee any reason which may cause you to spend a large amount of time afk, you are better off not coming. During the raid, everyone needs to be doing their jobs. There are limited spaces in the zone so one person not doing anything could be stopping someone more productive helping out.

3. DEBT: 95% of people who turn up to hami raids are lvl 50 anyway so debt really shouldnt be an issue, but it didnt stop a few people moaning about it. You WILL die in a hami raid at least once thats almost garaunteed. So if you dont want to die or for some reason dont like debt at lvl 50, dont come.

4. LISTENING: spam on broadcast is inevitable, in fact it doesnt really bother me at all, as long as people can keep the chatter down while im explaining the plan all is fine.

The last raid failed because half the zone left after the first wipeout. Leaving those people who DID have the stones to stick around, fighting a loosing battle.

In short, Hami is a very rewarding event, and very enjoyable when it goes well. But it is very hard work and takes a lot of co-ordination and co-operation. So unless you actually plan to do your part and see it through to the end you are wasting everyones time.

I hope the die-hards who did stick around will come again, as they are the people who define what CoH players should be about. Its not about the Hami-o at the end, as has already been pointed out by several money motivated players, you can get it in half the time doing stf. Its about the being there and the taking part in such a huge social event. And being able to say "I was there".

So thanks for the support and ill keep you posted with the date and time of the next attempt.

Much love

Thundy

Please do =P

Very constructive, thanks.

TBH if you are on a blaster and a stalker AS's you there inst much thats going to save your hide anyway, not unless you run round in pvp zones with your finger poised on the hibernate button and have impressive reflexes, as most blasters will go down after the classic stalker two shot anyway.

Me thinks you are somewhat missing the point.

I agree with what Spag says beleieve it or not, the problem is that There are not so many die hard pvp'ers out there and apart from those few, he will struggle to find opponents at his level. I have duelled his blaster on my wp/tank, Probably not the best choice of toons to fight a blaster with but hey ho lol.

I think what my point is really is that although its great to be an elite pvp and nigh on indestructible but it kind of lacks sportsmanship. Which is the one thing about how old school pvp that i think has been lost. If im dueling an opponent who i know is considerably weaker i wont go full pelt at them as killing someone repeatedly knowing that theres pretty much nothing that they can do about it is kind of boring. Maybe its because i dont take pvp seriously enough to care about rep points, or maybe its something else. What im saying is that although you can build a toon thats awesome and could go up against the best of the best, in the sake of sportsmanship it would probably be better to hold back a little bit if you know that your oponent is weaker, theres no shame in winning 10-9 instead of 10-0, and your opponent is more likely to duel you again knowing that they arent just going to get their behind handed to them for ten minutes.

I agree with you mother. The use of TK or Phase shift in your case is acceptable simply because as you said, an empath doesnt have much in the way of offence and so defence is you forte. My argument is against people who play, stalkers, blasters, brutes, tanks or scrappers or even in a lot of cases dom's and corr's who are quite capable of surviving a good fight even if it is purely on an offensive scale, who use phase shift or tk purely as a way of becoming effectively invincible. In zonal pvp which is where i usually bump into you mother, i dont blame you for using phase shift, your an empath and as such i'd be a coward to pick on with other lovely people to beat up around. Its arena duels where these powers grind my gears. Why enter a fight knowing your opponent is going to phaseshift or hit hibernate everytime their hp gets below 50%, theres no point whatsoever, and beleive me when i say, almost every person i know feels the same way and simply earmarks the players they know who use these tactics and simply refuse to duel against them.

I like a lot of people dabble in pvp but dont consider myself a hardcore PvPer. I enjoy duelling in the arena occasionally and sometime hop into a zone for a bit of a scrap.

Ive took a bit of a break from pvp for a short while and seeing teh difference in the way people pvp now to say a year ago is surprising. People used to get flamed for using insps and god powers for instance and nowadays your considered a n00b if you dont use them.

Im all for using everything in the game allows you to have in order to fight, and the old method of flaming anyone who did was always a little harsh imo. However there comes a point where it just gets boring. What i mean is powers like Telekenesis, Phase shift, hibernate and so on. Its not like im going to accuse anyone of cheating for using these powers, as i said im all for using the game mechanics to your advantage, but i have to say its flippin boring fighting someone who phase shifts every time they get in trouble or uses telekenesis. After all theres no point pvping if you cant actually kill your opponent. Ok you could argue that they cant phase shift if they are stunned or held, but then thats what breakfrees are for isnt it?

So i guess what the point of my thread is, that like a large amount of people i know, i tend to just not bother duelling or fighting people i know use these powers as there isnt really much point. One example of this is a stalker i duelled once, EM/sr his entire duel consisted of Elude-drop-CAB-phaseshift-hide-elude and so on. had i been on my claws/regen it wouldnt have been so bad as it can hit through elude at will but whats the point of duelling something that is basically untouchable?

So i guess using anything the game allows you to use is as likely to put people off fighting you as it is to save your behind.

So what can be done to make things better?

by the player: bear in mind that there are only a limited number of people to fight, and if you bore them all by using phase shift or hibernate, eventually nobody will bother fighting you they will just stick to people who enjoy a fight that can go either way.

By the Devs: Increase the cost of using these powers, maybe have an end crash for using phase shift, so that it can be used as a getaway power rather then just a way of recovering hp whilst not being touchable. Make the End cost of Telekenesis higher or put a time limit and longer recharge on it. Hibernate, maybe just increase the recharge on it.

This is where i expect a flaming from certain individuals.

One way of encouraging PvP is to remember to take your toon out of hide when going into WB, RV, SC, BB. I like many people immediately do /whoall when entering a pvp zone to see if its worth my while even being there. If no names appear ill just leave again. Also if im on a hero and there are 7 more in the zone and only one villain i tend to leave, purely because the odds are a little unfair and ill also be competing with 7 others to get a kill.