Villains are overpowered in PvP (comedy gold)
By
Aeronaut,
Posted on: 2007-05-27 08:34 in Everything about PvP
Hehe I do chuckle when hear comments like this. However, I know when some of my lot fighting in warburg we get complimented in how well manage to work together (although also get dissed with terms such as ganking). You can get a very nice villain mix making it very hard to break down if the opposing side not got a good balance or not teaming well together (which I guess would be the villains over powered and need nerfing bit 
).
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
This has to be the first time in the history of the world that someone has used the words "Villain" and "Overpowered" in the same sentence without also including the word "not" in there somewhere. Very amusing post.
Nah used to hear it all the time when the villains for once all team up and work together instead of fighting alone and being picked off. Its amazing how this makes them overpowered because they weren't dying - unfortunately I lost all my amusing chat logs when computer got formatted but had some great comody gold in there.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
Thing is, if the heroes had been winning you would likely have been treated to a chorus of "hoho we wtfrolfcopterzpwnz joo" followed by "villains are teh suck" for an encore.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
just for the record, what villain team were you in?
I seen very effective combos of 4 corrs + dom that's VERY hard to take down.. thing is, most villains never know how to cooperate, or they just dont. This causes all those deaths, if a villain team would cooperate in a zone, it can really kick heroes' [censored]. Of course, we all know zones are inhabited by solo stalkers who start whinging as soon as an empath or any toon with +perc enters the scene...
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
2 corrs (Fire/Kin, something /Thermal I think), 1 dom (Fire/Ice?) and a brute (EM/DA)
A couple of nice buffs/debuffs (always nice) and a bunch of people that know how to play as a team ... as I said, I tried to gank them later that night and they tore me a new one (I WAS on my spines/regen, which, let's be honest, lacks a little in PvP - z axis movement and a skillful player).
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
Thing is, no amount of cooperation will make up for the imbalances.
Good villains players in team > bad heroes players in team or good hero player solo, but given equal skill and min/max'ed builds, a good hero team wins against a good villain team everytime.
I don't think most people who complain about villains being underpowered worry about killing some newbies in zones. 
Villains pwn heroes bad with their crazy uber PPPs. Force of nature? Hibernate? Powerboost? Earths embrace on a squishy? Mez protection on a squishy? Crazy [censored] tohit that is focused accuracy? No thanks, I want me a nice pissweak PPP aoe blast and a pet that can be used for a whole 4 minutes out of every 15.......
Well played villains are a testement to the players far more than heroes
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
[ QUOTE ]
Well played villains are a testement to the players far more than heroes
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Indeed.
Great post Light Petting. Just shows (again), how a well played team can be a formidable force to be reckoned with in zone PvP (and the pathetic whining of the loosing side crying for nerfs).
@SinghMC
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Thing is, no amount of cooperation will make up for the imbalances.
Good villains players in team > bad heroes players in team or good hero player solo, but given equal skill and min/max'ed builds, a good hero team wins against a good villain team everytime.
I don't think most people who complain about villains being underpowered worry about killing some newbies in zones.
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True I agree.. given players of equal skill and cooperation, and equal min/maxed builds... indeed a hero team will most of times have the edge. Mainly because heroes complement each other way more in teams than villains do.
However, it does show that a good cooperating team can kick [censored], even with the imbalances in it. In example I mentioned, bout 4 corrs + dom, its clearly they coordinate very well. On paper, they would have a hard time surviving if put up against teams of equal cooperation. Thing is, seeing they are so well cooperating, meeting that same level of cooperation is hard, hence resulting in the death of heroes.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
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Thing is, no amount of cooperation will make up for the imbalances.
Good villains players in team > bad heroes players in team or good hero player solo, but given equal skill and min/max'ed builds, a good hero team wins against a good villain team everytime.
I don't think most people who complain about villains being underpowered worry about killing some newbies in zones.
[/ QUOTE ]
True I agree.. given players of equal skill and cooperation, and equal min/maxed builds... indeed a hero team will most of times have the edge. Mainly because heroes complement each other way more in teams than villains do.
However, it does show that a good cooperating team can kick [censored], even with the imbalances in it. In example I mentioned, bout 4 corrs + dom, its clearly they coordinate very well. On paper, they would have a hard time surviving if put up against teams of equal cooperation. Thing is, seeing they are so well cooperating, meeting that same level of cooperation is hard, hence resulting in the death of heroes.
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pft, like to see them do well against a team of illusionist they dont need no skill get ya pets out and just spam ya heal *if you got one*
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
That's a joke, right?
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
Why? we all know that illusionists get a free kill each time we cast our pets successfully 
I don't mind admitting I was Hero one in that.
let me sum something up.
You were a level 45 character, hitting a well slotted PvE character who had 3 shields, Magus accolade, stealth slotted for defence and elude and you think you guys aren't overpowered?
Whatever you're smoking, please, pass it around.
As for trash talking, if you can spend an entire weekend in the SAME ZONE farming, then you should be able to take a little trash, but your post would suggest the opposite. Now you KNOW that you cant see an opponents powers in PVP, but from the rate that you dropped everyone, it's a reasonable supposition to think its a PvP build you're using, especially given the punishment that my ( Whole ONE level 50 character that I play CoH with, hence the accolades ) character can take.
You guys might have a good laugh at my broadcasts, but basicially, I don't care because I play CoH to have fun, so I'll be avoiding RV in future as, as I thought when I heard PvP was coming to CoH, that the game would be just as pointless as every other MMO PvP experience I've been subjected to.
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
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I don't mind admitting I was Hero one in that.
let me sum something up.
You were a level 45 character, hitting a well slotted PvE character who had 3 shields, Magus accolade, stealth slotted for defence and elude and you think you guys aren't overpowered?
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I've done that solo on my Blaster, who is a HERO. They were teamed, I don't think that's overpowered, I think that's good teamwork. Also slotting Def in Stealth is dumb.
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You were a level 45 character, hitting a well slotted PvE character who had 3 shields, Magus accolade, stealth slotted for defence and elude and you think you guys aren't overpowered?
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Check the powers outlined. Tactics, Aim, Forge. The other point to bear in mind is that it wasn't me that took you down, although the fulcrum shifted built up energy Torrent probably helped.
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As for trash talking, if you can spend an entire weekend in the SAME ZONE farming, then you should be able to take a little trash, but your post would suggest the opposite.
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Well, actually I've been revising for exams next week. I've spent under an hour in RV total and 2 hours in CoH total. Check the timestamps - all of this happened in less than 10 minutes (my SG mates were already in the zone and I don't know how ong they'd been there). After you guys left RV was empty, so we left too. I don't have a problem with trash talking - I honestly thought accusing us of using autohit holds was one of the funniest things I'd heard in ages. Accusing villains of being overpowered struck me as hilarious, since I play both sides and think heroes are in general superior in PvP. I much prefer villains for actual PvE play.
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Now you KNOW that you cant see an opponents powers in PVP, but from the rate that you dropped everyone, it's a reasonable supposition to think its a PvP build you're using, especially given the punishment that my ( Whole ONE level 50 character that I play CoH with, hence the accolades ) character can take.
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It isn't a PvP build, although the powersets (Energy Melee/Dark Armour) can be effective if you have some buffs covering the shortcomings.
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You guys might have a good laugh at my broadcasts,
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Come on, auto hit holds? You have to admit that was funny.
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
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You were a level 45 character, hitting a well slotted PvE character who had 3 shields, Magus accolade, stealth slotted for defence and elude and you think you guys aren't overpowered?
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And think on that point, in RV and the other PvP zones, all characters are exempted/lackeyed to the same level. The fact the character you are 45 and 50 to compare this means the "most effective level" for SOs is the same relative distance in levels for you, (45: 42, 50: 47).
All corruptor gank squad = pwnage end of
thePhilosopher Martial Arts/Regen/Fire Scrapper
theRegulator Empathy/Energy/Soul Defender
Total Inertia Ice Blast/Kinetics/Psy Corruptor
Total Inferno Ice Blast/Thermal/Leviathan Corruptor
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As for trash talking, if you can spend an entire weekend in the SAME ZONE farming, then you should be able to take a little trash, but your post would suggest the opposite. Now you KNOW that you cant see an opponents powers in PVP, but from the rate that you dropped everyone, it's a reasonable supposition to think its a PvP build you're using, especially given the punishment that my ( Whole ONE level 50 character that I play CoH with, hence the accolades ) character can take.
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All weekend? We were in for about 20 minutes in the morning when no one was there, and had been there 20 minutes when you called us cowards. We left after all the heroes left, and went to WB for more PvP. Please, don't just make things up.
EDIT: Just thought I'd point out, only Syn, myself, and Light Petting were there in the morning, and LP was there for less time than Syn and myself. Not sure how long the rest of our SG have been around, but we're a small SG, and we've been doing an awful lot of PvE mission teams over this weekend, so I know they've not been there very much. Perhaps you're mistaking us for someone else?
Also, LP barely PvPs, has very little time to play (as he has an extremely busy life), and hence doesn't really make PvP-only builds. Your suggestion we had no lives was a little off. Some of us organise perimeter guards in our spare time some of us PvP. I'd be insulted, except I found it rather funny instead. 
I wouldn't worry about it too much - he's just upset because it meant he couldn't farm RV.
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I'm still working away on mine. I was going to take advantage of double XP to try and raise the other 100k prestige I need to finish the basics, but problems with [censored] in RV
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Gawd, all that work spent on scrubbing people's names ... I might as well not bothered 
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
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Gawd, all that work spent on scrubbing people's names ... I might as well not bothered
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Is it just me or does Villain One seem like the coolest, most badass player in Co*? I wish I could meet him/her and shake him/her by the hand and just spend time in his/her company.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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Is it just me or does Villain One seem like the coolest, most badass player in Co*? I wish I could meet him/her and shake him/her by the hand and just spend time in his/her company.
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I'll have to check my logs to see which one that was, but I'm pretty certain that's the 40 year old that lives in his mother's basement - I seem to remember he left shortly afterwards to take her to bingo.
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
In my experience of Villains and Hero's, my villain chars have always managed to easily take down Hero's in PvP very easily.
Wha you have to realise is that the Villain sets incorporate a lot of PvP powers ( stalkers are pretty much designed for it lets not forget ) while the Hero powers had to be adapted for it.
As for being annoyed about RV, yes I am. As many people will have noticed I spend most of my time attacking the Tarantula Queens, with or without heavies, because I know the negative aspect that people associate with turret farming. If there are other hero's in the zone, I'll take turrets however, to try and get a hero win.
As for the PG comment, I organised that on a friday night simply because few other people even think about anything other than their own toon, own rewards and what they get out of it. You probably didnt hear about me handing out My HO's to people who missed the brawl phase did you?
Whats the underlying tone of all this, fair and FUN play.
As for the autohit comment, with all your powers, hitting a SR scrapper with all the powers I had active should be very very low, yet each and every time you manage it on the first hit. Difference last time was that your friends couldnt easily finish the job because of so much defence making them hit me very difficult.
I do admit, I dont pretend to understand all the figures and calculations behind PvP, fair enough. But the balance from playing both sides myself does seem very favored to villain characters.
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
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Wha you have to realise is that the Villain sets incorporate a lot of PvP powers
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Cool? What powers are they then? Not having a go at you but I think this may just be an assumption or an idea you havent thoguht out too well.
I'd like to know what heroes were around at the time as well if you can remember.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
Here's a cleaned up chat log from Union RV last night. I've removed anything that could identify the players involved, other than to note I was clearly one of them. As far as rampant self justification goes, this one is in my all time top ten (I'm not referring to myself, you may feel free to do so
).
o you actually play CoV?
I've also kept in comments from both sides that put them in a less than flattering light, apart from one blaster who kept swearing around the filter using substitution (not that it was needed, I'd have seen the word anyway).
05-26-2007 20:46:16 [Team]Villain One: [Target] -> Hero one
05-26-2007 20:46:20 Villain Three has defeated Hero one
05-26-2007 20:46:31 Villain Three has defeated Freedom Corps Cataphract
05-26-2007 20:46:46 Villain One has defeated Hero Two
05-26-2007 20:46:59 Villain Two has defeated Hero Three
05-26-2007 20:47:17 [Broadcast]Villain One: wwwwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiiipeout
05-26-2007 20:47:20 [Broadcast]Hero one: and people say villains arent overpowered. cheapass holds are getting annoying
05-26-2007 20:47:22 Entering Sector 2.
05-26-2007 20:47:35 [Broadcast]Villain Two: OH NOES HOLDS
05-26-2007 20:47:40 [Broadcast]Villain Two: HEROES DON'T HAVE THOSE
05-26-2007 20:47:47 [Broadcast]Hero Four: not as good ones
05-26-2007 20:47:48 [Broadcast]Villain Three: no sir, only villains use holds
05-26-2007 20:47:49 [Broadcast]Hero one: holds that auto hit and drop toggles
yeah, those crazy game developers putting autohit holds in that drop toggles (just for villains). Didn't they realise there would be a PvP imbalance if they did that?
05-26-2007 20:47:54 [Broadcast]Villain Two:What?
05-26-2007 20:47:56 [Broadcast]Villain One: wat
05-26-2007 20:47:58 [Broadcast]Villain Two:Wow
05-26-2007 20:48:03 [Broadcast]Villain Two
05-26-2007 20:48:04 [Broadcast]Hero one: heros get holds, but NOT domination that boosts them.
05-26-2007 20:48:11 [Broadcast]Villain Two: It doesn't make anythign autohit
05-26-2007 20:48:12 [Broadcast]Villain Three: the toggledrop was my end drain
05-26-2007 20:48:20 You have defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:48:20 [Broadcast]Villain Two: And Dom holds are a lot weaker the rest of the time
05-26-2007 20:48:24 [Broadcast]Villain Three: or my ice swords
05-26-2007 20:48:29 Villain Three has defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:49:00 Villain One has defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:49:00 [Broadcast]Me: plus with focussed accuracy from my kick [censored] patron pool, I can't miss, even through PFF
I was wrong here, as we'll see. I assumed it was PFF since he was just standing there (which normally means someone has PFF up, as opposed to a normal shield, and is either being smug or acting as bait)
05-26-2007 20:49:05 Villain One has defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:49:08 [Broadcast]Me: oh wait, we don't get that
05-26-2007 20:49:21 [Broadcast]Hero one: well, you just hit through elude, 3 shields and magus on your first hit. its sodding stuppid[/b]
No wonder he didn't feel the need to move, attack or actually do anything ... he thought he couldn't be touched.
05-26-2007 20:49:29 [Broadcast]Villain Two: That's called a buff
05-26-2007 20:49:30 [Broadcast]Villain One: You're SR?
05-26-2007 20:49:34 [Broadcast]Villain One: I never noticed
05-26-2007 20:49:36 [Broadcast]Villain Two: And a debuff
05-26-2007 20:49:39 [Broadcast]Villain Two: And Aim
05-26-2007 20:49:47 Entering Sector 5.
05-26-2007 20:49:56 Tarantula Mistress has defeated Longbow Warden
05-26-2007 20:49:58 [Broadcast]Villain Two: I have Forge for +acc, Villain One has Tactics, and I have -def and Aim.
05-26-2007 20:50:02 [Broadcast]Hero Four: they dont need skill they have overpowered stuff to do the work for them
Like Elude, 3 shields and Magus for example?
05-26-2007 20:50:03 [Broadcast]Villain Three: ever seen a /en blaster miss anything when running pb+aim+buildup?
05-26-2007 20:50:05 [Broadcast]Hero Three: i'll show ya what a debuff is my fist hitting your face
But this one was a blaster.. ah he has a melee secondary. That must be it, he clearly can't be threatening us, can he?
05-26-2007 20:50:05 Tarantula Mistress has defeated Longbow Nullifier
05-26-2007 20:50:09 Tarantula Queen has defeated Longbow Nullifier
05-26-2007 20:50:09 [Broadcast]Me: it's almost as though each side can counter the other.
05-26-2007 20:50:22 [Broadcast]Villain Two: We have nothing more spectacular than heroes do.
05-26-2007 20:50:24 [Broadcast]Villain One: that's not a debuff, that's a fantasy
05-26-2007 20:50:26 Entering Sector 2.
05-26-2007 20:50:34 Entering Sector 5.
05-26-2007 20:51:01 You have defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:51:25 You have defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:51:44 [Broadcast]Hero Four: well i'm out... bye villains, who are obviously just ganking so they can farm like they were before
Shortly after all the heroes left, the team moved over to warbug because there was nobody else in RV - clearly, if we WERE just farming, we'd have done that.
05-26-2007 20:51:48 You have defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:52:04 [Broadcast]Villain Two:Neh, we're killing you because we think it's fun.
05-26-2007 20:52:06 You have defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:52:12 [Broadcast]Villain Two:If that makes you feel any better.
05-26-2007 20:52:17 [Broadcast]Me: well, I'm farming
05-26-2007 20:53:11 [Broadcast]Hero one: im just going to logoff, its no fun fighting and losing because of game inbalance
you know, I've NEVER seen anyone lose because they were fighting a better opponent. Strange, isn't it? I'm guilty of the same reasoning my self of course. PvP being a game of rock-paper-scissors and all, you can always console yourself with the thought that the build that beat you is a "cheap" autowin one against you
05-26-2007 20:53:19 [Broadcast]Villain Two:Well, my, I am upset.
05-26-2007 20:53:19 [Broadcast]Villain One: You're losing because you suck
05-26-2007 20:53:25 [Team]Me:[censored]
05-26-2007 20:53:32 Villain Two has defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:53:38 [Broadcast]Hero Three: we don't suck
05-26-2007 20:53:40 [Broadcast]Hero one: s
05-26-2007 20:53:46 [Broadcast]Villain Two: I have to say, this is funny hearing how overpowered TEH VILLENZ are.
05-26-2007 20:54:13 You have defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:54:16 You have defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:54:23 [Broadcast]Hero one: so stalkers invis, domination, scourge etc. I get critical hit, which every time it hits, just causes you guys to self heal... wow
We'll ignore that those powers are also one per AT and assume villains get all of them. And ALL villains get a self heal. Contact support if you can't find yours in the power list
05-26-2007 20:54:24 [Broadcast]Villain One: You really do suck though, I've played against a few sucky people in my time and you're one of them.
05-26-2007 20:54:26 You have defeated Pop Up Anti-Personnel Gun
05-26-2007 20:54:37 [Broadcast]Villain One: (you can tell by the pixels)
05-26-2007 20:54:38 [Broadcast]Me:weird, cause when I come in with my heroes, villains tell me heroes are overpowered
This is true, actually
05-26-2007 20:54:40 [Broadcast]Villain Three: Not self-heal, we have a healor.
05-26-2007 20:54:47 [Broadcast]Villain One:*healbots
05-26-2007 20:54:54 [Broadcast]Villain Three: riding gankpuppies
05-26-2007 20:54:56 [Broadcast]Villain Two: Hero One, we just team a lot. That's really it.
05-26-2007 20:54:57 [Broadcast]Hero one: i think its rather that i have a social life rather than a level 50 pvp build
For the record, I hit 45 around now... and also didn't have three shields on me +Magus, but clearly I'm the one optimising for PvP
05-26-2007 20:54:59 [Broadcast]Villain One:VILLAINS WIN, VILLAINS WIN
05-26-2007 20:55:02 [Broadcast]Me:heal-bot, STAY BEHIND THE GANK PUPPY
05-26-2007 20:55:08 [Broadcast]Villain One:this isn't a pvp build. :/
05-26-2007 20:55:17 [Broadcast]Villain One: this is a lol@SR build
05-26-2007 20:55:46 [Broadcast]Villain Three: I want to level my lol@sr build up :/
05-26-2007 20:55:49 [Broadcast]Villain Two:Anyway, bye bye from my gfriends list. Shame, you seemed alright when we had a chat in Siren's one day. When you were on you ZOMG OVERPOWERED STALKER.
05-26-2007 20:55:57 [Broadcast]Villain One: ahahahaha
05-26-2007 20:56:51 [Team]Villain Two: Yeah, he was seriously on my friends list, btw.
05-26-2007 20:56:55 [Team]Villain Two: Until a minute ago, anyway.
05-26-2007 20:56:55 [Team]Villain Three:
05-26-2007 20:57:07 [Team]Me: villains overpowered? auto hit? [censored]
05-26-2007 20:57:27 [Broadcast]Hero Three:bye [censored] this is a waste of mt time fighting u
05-26-2007 20:57:45 [Broadcast]Me: agreed, you don't last long enough for us to get rep
05-26-2007 20:57:48 [Broadcast]Villain Two: Damn, so no hide and go seek?
05-26-2007 20:57:49 [Broadcast]Villain Three: :/
05-26-2007 20:57:51 [Broadcast]Villain One:fighting us == dying repeatedly, amirite? :/
I then went off to do more revision and when I came back logged on to CoH, saw my old team were in Warburg on villains (same team) so went in as a hero on /hide and /ghide.
They wiped the floor with me repeatedly. I think it was something like 30-2 to them. Even when I got in a team with the few other heroes left, we just didn't work well enough against them to make an impact.
Of course, my hero (scrapper) is only 35, not fully slotted, yada yada yada.
I eventually gave it up as a bad job and left for the night, but I didn't moan about overpowered villains, or cheap powers instead of skill. I DID ask one of the dominators what on earth he kept hitting me with since it was very effective, it wasn't anything my fire troller doesn't already have.
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world