Villains are overpowered in PvP (comedy gold)

Hammerfall · 05-29-2007 09:26 AM

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But if it makes you feel any better, another Secondary wouldn't of helped, they'd still have mulched you.

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What the man said, don't feel bad, from the looks of it that team would have mulched any kind of single toon (not using phase shift)

Stalk_obot_EU · 05-29-2007 10:14 AM

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Yet in PvP I last 10 seconds in open fights, yeah thats balanced.

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nothing to do with balance its everything to do with you and contantly bleating on about how things are not fair on you is an direct indication of how your mentality let you dow. I build my stalkers with no defences, no sheilds outside of mez protection, a dark/empath could kill me with a sideways glace and yet mine do just fine in all pvp levels. This isnt because im any good, its because I adapted my style to suit.

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It's not a personal thing parse, I'm just getting sick and tired of spending time in PvP, learning tactics that work well from observing other people fighting, applying them to my build, working hard, then finding that none of that matters because every single shield I've got can't prevent being held straight away

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No you are sick and tired of not being great out of the box against good pvpers, stop whining and come back fighting, if something gets you killed 10 times in a row try something else, if you are getting held, carry BFs, they are not exclusive to squishies. People in this thread have tried to explain and assist and all you are doing is whining, clearly we are not going to change your mind, heres the true secret, all villains are equivilent to AVs in PvP.....

Also 'mind' holds like dominate bypass defence no matter how much you have, they still need a tohit roll but elude will mean nothing. This is the same on heroes and villain mind holds.

**Acceptable "support" responses**

Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault

Light_Petting_EU · 05-29-2007 12:45 PM

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so you're down to calling people dumb for wanting a chance to at least be able to put up a decent fight when outnumbered. Not be able to beat them, just have a chance.... How very nice of you.

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I really wish I could understand how a game could simultaneously be balanced such that any AT should have a 'fair' chance vs any other AT AND one player should have a chance when outnumbered. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I think those two stated aims are mutually exclusive is all, unless everybody gets massive burst damage and it turns into city of stalkers. That's the only way I could see it working and I wouldn't want to play that game.

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Yet in PvP I last 10 seconds in open fights, yeah thats balanced.

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Actually

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05-26-2007 20:46:16 [Team]Villain One: [Target] -> Hero one
05-26-2007 20:46:20 Villain Three has defeated Hero one

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I make it four seconds. Now please don't think I pointed that out to make you feel bad. Look at the line immediately above it. The team lead looked through all the heroes at that turret, identified you as the main threat and we go to work. I (the brute) and the dominator are buffed with forge + tactics. I dive in hitting build up, a second before everyone else so you automatically (unless you've been at this a while) respond to the only visible threat. I hit with stun (3 accs) which is the only PvP specific power I have (45, 47 and 50 will all be PvP powers though, although I wasn't 45 until after our little get together). I've also got oppressive gloom going, so you'll be continually getting stun layered on you. Mean while, while you're looking at big ugly in front of you, the domi is flying above just layering holds on you. I think fire also gets a stun move as well...

Once I hear fulcrum shift go off from the kin, I unload energy torrent + total focus. Meanwhile the two corruptors just lay damage into you until you drop. I'm the only thing in melee range and if you did manage to damage me, I've got a transfusion/warmth and my own dark regeneration all going off within three seconds.

end result: you go down in four seconds. Then we worry about the others, since oppressive gloom/cinders(?) etc. should have kept them busy.

Now really, do you think any game where four player deliberately target you in such a way as to limit your options like that AND you have a chance to take one of them down would be balanced? You're saying it isn't fair that you didn't have a chance... I'm just pointing out that the way the team was structured, you shouldn't realistically have had a chance, unless your team was similarly organised (to be honest I can't remember who else was at the turret with you but it did seem to be very much a collection of individuals).

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This frustration has really come over many months, with RV really just being breaking point.

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It's not a personal thing parse, I'm just getting sick and tired of spending time in PvP, learning tactics that work well from observing other people fighting, applying them to my build, working hard, then finding that none of that matters because every single shield I've got can't prevent being held straight away. That my damage scratches other people for about 5% while sets with lower damage can take whacking great chunks out and that some sets get toggledrop powers that are effective, whilst melee types have to make do with brawl.

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It is entirely possible to drive yourself mad thinking that way. As I said, I went back on later on heroes and the team were in Warburg on villains. I got spanked, repeatedly. With a meat tenderiser. The dom just hangs back layering holds and immobs on you while somebody else gets up close and keeps you occupied. I didn't have fly on my hero, so it was effectively game over (apart from the one time the nemesis staff actually hit ). If it is any consolation, he annoyed the [censored] out of me as well when I was on the receiving end

Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world

Lord_Qel_Thyr · 05-29-2007 04:06 PM

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You don't have to team in PvP to enjoy PvP or do well in PvP. However, if you want to fight a team all by your lonesome and expect to have a fair chance you are dumb. Especially against a team that's heavy in the support side of things.

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so you're down to calling people dumb for wanting a chance to at least be able to put up a decent fight when outnumbered. Not be able to beat them, just have a chance.... How very nice of you.

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Ah, so you want it that someone soloing can take on a larger group of foes and do well against them... and you are also complaining about Overpowering in this thread?

TsumijuZero · 05-29-2007 06:40 PM

Did I say do well? No. Did I say a chance? Yes

I even put it in italics for you guys...

As mentioned above, 4 seconds with every shield in the set, even against a few opponents is pretty rubbish. Even with high damage that my enhancement layout has yielded balanced against recharge time and endurance usage, taking on a single Mastermind was deemed pointless because his shields against melee we're stupidly more powerful that my own, even with said hero scrapper having the magus shield and the MM having just repulsion field.

As a casual gamer, it just feels wrong.

In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
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Dark_Blasphemy_EU · 05-29-2007 07:02 PM

If I ever was killed by a katana/sr on my bubbler, I would feel really embarrassed, let alone if I was in a group of support toons vs a single katana scrapper. PvP is not PvE and you have to know much better your strong points but also your weak points, otherwise you're pretty much doomed

Stryker_EU · 05-29-2007 08:16 PM

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Did I say do well? No. Did I say a chance? Yes

I even put it in italics for you guys...

As mentioned above, 4 seconds with every shield in the set, even against a few opponents is pretty rubbish. Even with high damage that my enhancement layout has yielded balanced against recharge time and endurance usage, taking on a single Mastermind was deemed pointless because his shields against melee we're stupidly more powerful that my own, even with said hero scrapper having the magus shield and the MM having just repulsion field.

As a casual gamer, it just feels wrong.

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If they were computer controlled NPCs with a difficulty level, would it still be wrong?

fluffymormegil · 05-29-2007 08:16 PM

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As mentioned above, 4 seconds with every shield in the set, even against a few opponents is pretty rubbish.

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In PvE, if you take on three +0 Power Pattern Paragon Protectors at once, how well do you fare?

DCUO and CO will never see my money. The Citygame will keep seeing my money for as long as I keep enjoying it

Extremus · 05-29-2007 08:18 PM

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Did I say do well? No. Did I say a chance? Yes

I even put it in italics for you guys...

As mentioned above, 4 seconds with every shield in the set, even against a few opponents is pretty rubbish. Even with high damage that my enhancement layout has yielded balanced against recharge time and endurance usage, taking on a single Mastermind was deemed pointless because his shields against melee we're stupidly more powerful that my own, even with said hero scrapper having the magus shield and the MM having just repulsion field.

As a casual gamer, it just feels wrong.

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Would you expect to tank four Arch Villains at the same time? Lets say, Anti-Matter, Tyrant, Mother Mayhem and, I don't know, Diabolique?

Stalk_obot_EU · 05-29-2007 11:23 PM

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Did I say do well? No. Did I say a chance? Yes

I even put it in italics for you guys...

As mentioned above, 4 seconds with every shield in the set, even against a few opponents is pretty rubbish. Even with high damage that my enhancement layout has yielded balanced against recharge time and endurance usage, taking on a single Mastermind was deemed pointless because his shields against melee we're stupidly more powerful that my own, even with said hero scrapper having the magus shield and the MM having just repulsion field.

As a casual gamer, it just feels wrong.

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ok.... once more.....

You are casual, great, you are in a place where pvp is generally new and you can learn a great many subtleties about the game by pvping. Its a great way to learn, no one really knows it all, not even the people programming the game. Casual also means you dont know what ATs, builds and even people can kick your [censored] from here to kingdom come as soon as look at you. Now me and a couple of friends were on a few serious pvp build heroes against only 2 of people you went against and seriously embarassed us, my hamid up inv/ss tank got chewed up through unstoppable several times. We had the stronger toons by far but they were synergising better, so we adapted and it was quite fun doing so, we had to kite the therm and stay out of melee to stop the kin from healing his/her partner. So that was 3 overpowered heroes (any one of which would take out your sr) against 2 decent build villains (sure they had heavies but they were open to us too, was my problem that I cba to get one) I could have gone and got a better suited toon right from the off but it WAS fun.

Look, you dont understand pvp yet, its massively more complex than pve as certain sets and combos will devour others in the blink of an eye, EVERYTHING has an achillies heel. In terms of powersets the balance is there, heroes modifiers are superior to villains and their epic powers are light years ahead of the effluence that villains got lumbered with. You have the basis of a great pvp toon, you just need to learn and you DID get taken to school in a very hard manner, there is no tankmage in the game (anymore) it IS rock paper scissors.

Pre i9 my builds and enhancements were far superior to most but i frequently got my [censored] handed to me, annoying? massively but hey you cant win them all and some days you cant win anything at all, thats life.

And defence is a all or nothing set, you can be a god or a smear and so you know there are accolade powers (which the devs have admitted is overpowered by a factor of 10) called geas of the kind ones for heroes and Force of nature for villains (not to be confused with blasters epic power) which is a 200% tohit buff which basically means when thats active you are going to get hit no matter what, elude, magus, 100 purples, you are still going to get hit. I love defence sets but the devs dont seem to, same as they hate villains which is why they pre-nerf them.

PvP, love it and hate it in equal measures but have fun with it and dont care if you die or not is the best way to be.

**Acceptable "support" responses**

Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault

Lord_Qel_Thyr · 05-30-2007 02:50 AM

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Did I say do well? No. Did I say a chance? Yes

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Go read up on Quantum Mechanics, says there is a chance that you can successfully walk through a wall as your molecular structure will be in the right phase for the right amount of time to allow your molecules to pass through without colliding with those of the wall.

Small chance mind you.

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As mentioned above, 4 seconds with every shield in the set, even against a few opponents is pretty rubbish. Even with high damage that my enhancement layout has yielded balanced against recharge time and endurance usage, taking on a single Mastermind was deemed pointless because his shields against melee we're stupidly more powerful that my own, even with said hero scrapper having the magus shield and the MM having just repulsion field.

As a casual gamer, it just feels wrong.

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Well, seeing as how with those 4 seconds people will have used time since any previous combat to have the Cooldowns on any powers finish, so combat buffs are ready again, if they were a Brute, which it seems one was, they might have been in combat while you traveled to them, so building Fury, teamed to receiving buffs to keep End up, by the time you do get there, they are ready to take someone out.

Looking at your powersets mentioned, /SR scrappers, so no resistance or self heal powers in there, if you are going to be hit, you are going to be hit hard.

Running all combat shields on a character does not equal "win", as put earlier, there is a chance that you can be hit every time, throw in self and team buffs and you can improve that chance. Playstyle can also affect it.

Not saying you did this, but it's an example.
Someone on a character such as a /SR scrapper running all defence powers and accolades, therefore running a high defence that in PvE pretty much means they wont be touched. They take that same attitude to PvP, where toHit is different, and act accordingly, standing still, or not actually moving much due to previous goes having not needed to. This then leaves a potential squishy standing with no movement, allowing opposing players to use moves without need for considering range, as the target wont move.

Point about MMs. MMs were modified from what they originally worked like to have the "Bodyguard" function, turn that on, damage taken it spread out over the pets, (have a Heavy do so even more? Not sure if that still works.) Go straight for the MM, you will have at least 3 things to deal with:

1. The pets, focusing on the MM itself still leaves you with pets to take fire/CC from.
2. Bodyguard, as long as those pets are standing, the damage you put out it not going to affect your target as much as you want.
3. MM powers, be they temps, Primary or Secondary or Epic, they will possibly have a self heal, so the reduced damage you are doing in the first place with BG in place is healed back, control powers like Fear, and possibly mez protections.

There are a few ATs that can under the correct situations against the correct opposing ATs at the correct time take on more than one oppenent, but even that will hit a cap on exactly how many foes they can take on. This wasn't one of those times.

Mesmer · 05-30-2007 07:05 AM

Someone complaining that they got wtfpwned on a pure defense build in PVP? Not a surprise really. The devs hate defense, which is why they put something like tohit in the game, which is like Kryptonite to defense builds.

You have to compare PVP to fighting DE dropping Quartzes or Nemesis with triple stacked Vengeance. I hardly think you'll last very long against those, even in Elude. You're just lucky that Villains don't get as much access to tohit as heroes do.

Check the link in my signature, to read a very long and very(too) detailed discussion about what is wrong with defense in this game.

Irradiator_EU · 05-30-2007 07:32 AM

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I'm not trying to pick on you personally but this is a false idea of PVP. Devs have repeatedly since Issue 4 (um what, 1,5 years ago?) said that PVP in this game is balanced for TEAM pvp.

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but didn't States also mention that players shouldn't be forced to team up to enjoy features such as PvP and other recent additions. Imagine how many people would be up in arms if Inventions only dropped when teamed...

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Originally I also wanted more balance in 1v1 combat. I got over it by banging my head to the wall long enough.

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Well at least one person understands the frustration, I think I'll just avoid PvP in future where possible rather than have to suffer gimping my PvE style with a PvP respec, or having to roll a new Char altogether.

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You don't have to team in PvP to enjoy PvP or do well in PvP. However, if you want to fight a team all by your lonesome and expect to have a fair chance you are dumb. Especially against a team that's heavy in the support side of things.

Also PvE Builds do fine at PvP, they're not as optimal as a PvP build, but you don't need to be a min/max'er to PvP. Thinking that is dumb.

What you did is walk in to a zone, come up against superior numbers that had good teamwork and superior [u]skill[u] at PvP'ing than you and you died. How is that bad? If anything it shows that PvP is balanced, a lone player shouldn't be able to kill a team.

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That is a very PRETTY POST with all that underlining and [u]italitcs and[u] bold

IN MEMORIUM OF GAYBABY
CRUELY TAKEN FROM THIS WORLD WHILE SO YOUNG

Empath_EU · 05-30-2007 07:37 AM

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I'm not trying to pick on you personally but this is a false idea of PVP. Devs have repeatedly since Issue 4 (um what, 1,5 years ago?) said that PVP in this game is balanced for TEAM pvp.

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but didn't States also mention that players shouldn't be forced to team up to enjoy features such as PvP and other recent additions. Imagine how many people would be up in arms if Inventions only dropped when teamed...

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Originally I also wanted more balance in 1v1 combat. I got over it by banging my head to the wall long enough.

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Well at least one person understands the frustration, I think I'll just avoid PvP in future where possible rather than have to suffer gimping my PvE style with a PvP respec, or having to roll a new Char altogether.

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You don't have to team in PvP to enjoy PvP or do well in PvP. However, if you want to fight a team all by your lonesome and expect to have a fair chance you are dumb. Especially against a team that's heavy in the support side of things.

Also PvE Builds do fine at PvP, they're not as optimal as a PvP build, but you don't need to be a min/max'er to PvP. Thinking that is dumb.

What you did is walk in to a zone, come up against superior numbers that had good teamwork and superior [u]skill[u] at PvP'ing than you and you died. How is that bad? If anything it shows that PvP is balanced, a lone player shouldn't be able to kill a team.

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That is a very PRETTY POST with all that underlining and [u]italitcs and[u] bold

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Did you mean to underline the bit that says 'italics' and put the bit that says 'underlining' in italics?

Alvan · 05-30-2007 07:37 AM

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That is a very PRETTY POST with all that underlining and [u]italitcs and[u] bold

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[u]WOULD BE PRETTIER WITH MORE ALL-CAPS AND COLOR[u]

[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]

Empath_EU · 05-30-2007 07:45 AM

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That is a very PRETTY POST with all that underlining and [u]italitcs and[u] bold

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[u]WOULD BE PRETTIER WITH MORE ALL-CAPS AND COLOR[u]

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That pink isn't as pretty as this one.

Dark_Blasphemy_EU · 05-30-2007 07:51 AM

Awwwww heroes in barbie pink, how cuuuuuuuuuuute

Alvan · 05-30-2007 07:52 AM

Barbie pink pom-poms on dead stalkers, what a pretty sight in the morning...

[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]

Little_T · 05-30-2007 09:13 AM

Was a really good joke that villains are overpowered, anyone made coffee yet.....

Stryker_EU · 05-30-2007 11:18 AM

I don't use Bold, I prefer Ariel Liqui-tabs. I'll have tea thanks, oh and pass the biscuits round.

Gravecall · 05-30-2007 03:36 PM

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This has to be the first time in the history of the world that someone has used the words "Villain" and "Overpowered" in the same sentence without also including the word "not" in there somewhere. Very amusing post.

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Yup especially since the Hero Epic PPs are actually considerably more potent than the Patron PPs.

Imaginary_EU · 05-31-2007 12:11 PM

Villains are overpowered cause of the spirit tree.

50s
controllers: Ill rad , grav rad, fire kin, ice kin
blaster: ice em
scrapper: spines sr

Empath_EU · 05-31-2007 12:24 PM

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Villains are overpowered cause of the spirit tree.

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Totally. The Avatar of Pwnage.

Light_Petting_EU · 05-31-2007 12:29 PM

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Villains are overpowered cause of the spirit tree.

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Totally. The Avatar of Pwnage.

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PRAISE THE TREE!

Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world

Empath_EU · 05-31-2007 12:44 PM

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Villains are overpowered cause of the spirit tree.

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Totally. The Avatar of Pwnage.

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PRAISE THE TREE!

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AAAAHHHH!