Villains are overpowered in PvP (comedy gold)
By
Aeronaut,
Posted on: 2007-05-27 08:34 in Everything about PvP
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Theres a forum cartel? 
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its a generic term used to describe the same old people always jumping on everyone with something different to say.
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Is there a generic term to describe new people that don't know what they are talking about? 
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Say, nice sig.
That's really childish. No one said they were uber in PvP, or that by being so, it made them an awesome person. In fact, if anything, I've specifically said the opposite - just as being bad or inexperienced in PvP is nothing to be ashamed of, being good or more experienced in PvP is hardly any big deal.
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hmm, lemme check something...
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05-26-2007 20:54:24 [Broadcast]Villain One: You really do suck though, I've played against a few sucky people in my time and you're one of them.
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In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
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Theres a forum cartel?
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its a generic term used to describe the same old people always jumping on everyone with something different to say.
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Is there a generic term to describe new people that don't know what they are talking about?
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There are many but I dont want a ban .
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
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Say, nice sig.
That's really childish. No one said they were uber in PvP, or that by being so, it made them an awesome person. In fact, if anything, I've specifically said the opposite - just as being bad or inexperienced in PvP is nothing to be ashamed of, being good or more experienced in PvP is hardly any big deal.
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hmm, lemme check something...
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05-26-2007 20:54:24 [Broadcast]Villain One: You really do suck though, I've played against a few sucky people in my time and you're one of them.
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Well tbh it is true so its not baiting. You made many stupid claims (stupid might be too harsh, ummm widely false and accurate claims).
You think people are jumping on your back when all they doing is trying to give you an explanation. You then dismiss it being fun because you not prepared for pvp and claim you don't suck when you have hardly any pvp experience and knowledge. As harsh as it sounds you do suck as you are new to it. You can either learn from it and try to improve or I guess complain that villains are overpowered and how everyone is jumping on your back and are wrong.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
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Say, nice sig.
That's really childish. No one said they were uber in PvP, or that by being so, it made them an awesome person. In fact, if anything, I've specifically said the opposite - just as being bad or inexperienced in PvP is nothing to be ashamed of, being good or more experienced in PvP is hardly any big deal.
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hmm, lemme check something...
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05-26-2007 20:54:24 [Broadcast]Villain One: You really do suck though, I've played against a few sucky people in my time and you're one of them.
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That's Syn saying you suck, not that he's uber. Plus, it was only said after putting up with insults and ranting on your part.
I would never say I'm 'uber', unless I was joking around, because it's a damned silly thing to say, and I know how much better in PvP plenty of other people are anyway.
Not wanting to take part on the argument, I think heroes are better than villains in really big teaams. In 4v4 or less I think they are quite even, tho. But a group of corruptors need to really suck big time to have some hard time in rv
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Not wanting to take part on the argument, I think heroes are better than villains in really big teaams. In 4v4 or less I think they are quite even, tho. But a group of corruptors need to really suck big time to have some hard time in rv
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a gang of defenders pwnz a gang of corrs, just be glad there are not hoards of maurading defenders running around...
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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no, but a emp/dark should have a chance against a kat / sr. Purposely giving gimped power examples really isnt the way to try and shoot down my point of view.
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I'm not trying to pick on you personally but this is a false idea of PVP. Devs have repeatedly since Issue 4 (um what, 1,5 years ago?) said that PVP in this game is balanced for TEAM pvp. This is what justifies the existence of support characters like buffers. Some character types duel better than others but ultimately it is of no consequence. Calls for balance in a 1v1 combat will fall on deaf ears. Thats how it is. Personally I have no problem with it, since i know what I can fight with and against what enemies I have a chance. Accepting the situation puts the mind at ease.
And again, in team PVP the tactic should be to single out the weakest or strongest opponent and neutralize him, its a battle of the team and not a group of individuals. That may appear like ganking from the single persons point of view but from team point of view its only logical. Since its normal, why cry about it?
If I go to pvp zones and theres several people fighting on both sides I accept that I can get ganked and die, no matter how strong I am. Exceptions are just a bonus. Due to the nature of team pvp you WILL get ganked on a pvp zone. That is natural.
ps. These sort of topics rise periodically every once in a while.
pps. I deny that I belong to a 'forum cartel', my opinions are my own. The fact that several people have similar opinions should tell us something other than that they'd 'belong to a forum cartel'.
ppps. Originally I also wanted more balance in 1v1 combat. I got over it by banging my head to the wall long enough.
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Not wanting to take part on the argument, I think heroes are better than villains in really big teaams. In 4v4 or less I think they are quite even, tho. But a group of corruptors need to really suck big time to have some hard time in rv
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a gang of defenders pwnz a gang of corrs, just be glad there are not hoards of maurading defenders running around...
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You ever been on an all empath team? There's a reason why all those buffs don't affect self you know ... cause empaths would never have to team if they did.
EDIT- I'm not saying stalk was arguing the opposite, just adding my bit.
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world
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Not wanting to take part on the argument, I think heroes are better than villains in really big teaams. In 4v4 or less I think they are quite even, tho. But a group of corruptors need to really suck big time to have some hard time in rv
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a gang of defenders pwnz a gang of corrs, just be glad there are not hoards of maurading defenders running around...
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You ever been on an all empath team? There's a reason why all those buffs don't affect self you know ... cause empaths would never have to team if they did.
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That reminds me how Omega and Keith with two /empath controllers (2 in total that is) iirc fought a team of 5 blasters and a scrapper to a standstill at arena lvl 50. (I was one of the blasters heh. Trust me we tried our best)
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I'm not trying to pick on you personally but this is a false idea of PVP. Devs have repeatedly since Issue 4 (um what, 1,5 years ago?) said that PVP in this game is balanced for TEAM pvp.
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but didn't States also mention that players shouldn't be forced to team up to enjoy features such as PvP and other recent additions. Imagine how many people would be up in arms if Inventions only dropped when teamed...
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Originally I also wanted more balance in 1v1 combat. I got over it by banging my head to the wall long enough.
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Well at least one person understands the frustration, I think I'll just avoid PvP in future where possible rather than have to suffer gimping my PvE style with a PvP respec, or having to roll a new Char altogether.
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
There is nothing stopping you pvping. However, if some people have decided to increase there odds of surviving and have teamed up then that my friend is tough luck. Sometimes there is a lot of people not teaming but then it often ends up with kill the squishy first anyway.
The argument you shouldn't be forced to team is rubbish. No one is forcing you at all. You can fight solo if you so wish but if your opponents are teamed then you surely you have to accept that you have diminishing odds of a victory. You can either ask nicely to join an existing team and try increase your odds (which I assume is what most people end up doing). I don't see why you have such a resentment for teaming up.
If you really want to not team then you have to be clever about it and attack when they either distracted or busy with something else.
P.S. You don't have to respec as I have found my gimp builds are still able to function in pvp. However, I wouldn't dream of thinking I had a chance against someone that was decent and had a good spec'd build. That's where having a team makes up for your own short comings and gives you much great balance resulting in more fun (of course fun is very subjective).
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
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You don't have to respec as I have found my gimp builds are still able to function in pvp. However, I wouldn't dream of thinking I had a chance against someone that was decent and had a good spec'd build.
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Indeed. My dom started as a bit of a concept build but I still like to pvp with him now and then. I dont expect to pound entire hero teams with him, although teaming sure helps. Anywho. I'd still like to know what heroes were around and whether you were teamed with them. If its 4 vs 1, or even 4 players teamed vs 4 solo players then what do you expect? Also, whats so special about pvp that you should be able to solo it? I wouldnt expect to complete all the pve content solo, certainly not on every single permutation of powersets. Oh and if there's a forum cartel I'm pretty sure I'm not part of it.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
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Anywho. I'd still like to know what heroes were around and whether you were teamed with them.
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There were a number of heroes. In fact, our villain team was outnumbered most if not all of the time Tsumiju was in the zone. I'd assumed they were teamed, or at least some of them, but perhaps not?
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Oh and no one crys about stone armour in PVP, ever.
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Except those who have it
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Hand me my /Kin Corruptor 
, and if I want to be even more cruel, the Ice/Kin/Mace one, not the Fire/Kin
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Anywho. I'd still like to know what heroes were around and whether you were teamed with them.
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There were a number of heroes. In fact, our villain team was outnumbered most if not all of the time Tsumiju was in the zone. I'd assumed they were teamed, or at least some of them, but perhaps not?
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Then again, there is the solo nature pvp that goes with some people, as if you team, the rewards of pvp kills is split is it not?
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hmm, lemme check something...
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05-26-2007 20:54:24 [Broadcast]Villain One: You really do suck though, I've played against a few sucky people in my time and you're one of them.
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Hmm, let me check something...
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05-26-2007 20:54:24 [Broadcast]Villain One: You really do suck though, I've played against a few sucky people in my time and you're one of them.
05-26-2007 20:54:37 [Broadcast]Villain One: (you can tell by the pixels)
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http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Photomanip - direct link is SFW.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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Not wanting to take part on the argument, I think heroes are better than villains in really big teaams. In 4v4 or less I think they are quite even, tho. But a group of corruptors need to really suck big time to have some hard time in rv
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a gang of defenders pwnz a gang of corrs, just be glad there are not hoards of maurading defenders running around...
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You ever been on an all empath team? There's a reason why all those buffs don't affect self you know ... cause empaths would never have to team if they did.
EDIT- I'm not saying stalk was arguing the opposite, just adding my bit.
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yeah I wasnt being sarcastic 
, I was serious, defenders have the potential to ruin everyones day when teamed, far more than other ATs IMO, uber buffs, irresistable debuffs, 47% res to lethal in epic sheilds (yes its that high)and great epics. Really should form a all defender team again sometime, I remember when we did the bubblers and herded the hollows at lvl 5....
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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I'm not trying to pick on you personally but this is a false idea of PVP. Devs have repeatedly since Issue 4 (um what, 1,5 years ago?) said that PVP in this game is balanced for TEAM pvp.
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but didn't States also mention that players shouldn't be forced to team up to enjoy features such as PvP and other recent additions. Imagine how many people would be up in arms if Inventions only dropped when teamed...
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Originally I also wanted more balance in 1v1 combat. I got over it by banging my head to the wall long enough.
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Well at least one person understands the frustration, I think I'll just avoid PvP in future where possible rather than have to suffer gimping my PvE style with a PvP respec, or having to roll a new Char altogether.
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You don't have to team in PvP to enjoy PvP or do well in PvP. However, if you want to fight a team all by your lonesome and expect to have a fair chance you are dumb. Especially against a team that's heavy in the support side of things.
Also PvE Builds do fine at PvP, they're not as optimal as a PvP build, but you don't need to be a min/max'er to PvP. Thinking that is dumb.
What you did is walk in to a zone, come up against superior numbers that had good teamwork and superior [u]skill[u] at PvP'ing than you and you died. How is that bad? If anything it shows that PvP is balanced, a lone player shouldn't be able to kill a team.
You know, I wondered why I couldn't get a team this weekend.... Everyone was farming in RV...
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You don't have to team in PvP to enjoy PvP or do well in PvP. However, if you want to fight a team all by your lonesome and expect to have a fair chance you are dumb. Especially against a team that's heavy in the support side of things.
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so you're down to calling people dumb for wanting a chance to at least be able to put up a decent fight when outnumbered. Not be able to beat them, just have a chance.... How very nice of you.
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Also PvE Builds do fine at PvP, they're not as optimal as a PvP build, but you don't need to be a min/max'er to PvP. Thinking that is dumb.
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No, the PvP build comment was actually trash talk, as mentioned earlier, hence why it was attached to a witty social life comment. However there are a lot of PvP builds out there that really tip the balance. For example, I have no travel powers, every SR armor and most combat powers so that my toon was viable in fights.
Yet in PvP I last 10 seconds in open fights, yeah thats balanced.
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What you did is walk in to a zone, come up against superior numbers that had good teamwork and superior [u]skill[u] at PvP'ing than you and you died. How is that bad? If anything it shows that PvP is balanced, a lone player shouldn't be able to kill a team.
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Unless you're a EN stalker, Stone Brute, FF toting mastermind... And again, its the chance to defend myself rather than being able to beat all of you at once. This frustration has really come over many months, with RV really just being breaking point.
It's not a personal thing parse, I'm just getting sick and tired of spending time in PvP, learning tactics that work well from observing other people fighting, applying them to my build, working hard, then finding that none of that matters because every single shield I've got can't prevent being held straight away. That my damage scratches other people for about 5% while sets with lower damage can take whacking great chunks out and that some sets get toggledrop powers that are effective, whilst melee types have to make do with brawl.
Which as usual you cant do because most PvP's I've been in have involved flight. Once again I'd have to respec in air superiority which makes it a PvP build etc etc...
In-game and now on Twitter @Tsumiju Zero "The Nightmare of Dra'Gon"
"The flow of battle can only be influenced, not by realtime tactics, but by strategy."
Proud resident of the Union EU Server.
B.A.F. Trial Guide
Any melee AT against a team of ranged AT's is at a massive disadvantage, and rightly so. If they wanted, they could keep you at range and DPS at the same time. You do have a chance to hold your own and maybe get a kill or two, but that chance because much smaller if they A)know what they're doing and B) are using debuffs.
If you say, came up against a group of En/Fire/Fire Blasters instead of a bunch of Corruptors and a Dominator, it'd be a very different story.
As for toggle drops, only Dominators get a high enough chance to semi-rely on those these days. You say that PvP is not balanced and you have no travel power, well that right there is a big issue, PvP relies heavily on movement, while I do think that 99% of PvE builds can do well in PvP, going in to a PvP Zone without a travel power is a mistake as far as I'm concerned. You're a sitting target for anyone that wants to come along and have a go.
Energy Melee Stalkers don't have a chance against a balanced team, they can maybe scrape on kill before dying. Stone Brutes and Tanks are laughable, they may take time to kill (well, a few seconds with the right team) but they're not gonna do any significant damage, especially against a team with +Res buffs. As for Force-Field, again, +ToHit negates that. You came up against a team that had massive +ToHit and -Def, an SR's worst nightmare.
But if it makes you feel any better, another Secondary wouldn't of helped, they'd still have mulched you.
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Unless you're a EN stalker, Stone Brute, FF toting mastermind...
[/ QUOTE ]Holy holy holy holy water pistol, Batman. Need to clear this misunderstanding, stat.
As a player with an FF Mastermind, I have to inform that they are hardly "teh win" in PvP. Sure, they have some redeeming qualities, but there is no form of +defense that protects you from for example an /en or a /dev blaster out to get you. I can kill a small unprepared team on my Blaster or my Domi, but the Mastermind just doesn't cut it, unless the enemies are really lacking in +tohit. :/ And as all Blasters get +tohit, Scrappers have Focused Accuracy in RV, and Defenders are buffing people with random +ToHit powers (usually at least Tactics), it's a rare case to come against a team without that quality. FF doesn't get a self-heal or any sort of debuffs. The only thing they really have is the +def. And that's not much.
(also Stone Brutes are really funny when you have a character with Slow powers)
[b][color=blue]Coldest War /[color=red]/ Omega Patient[/b]
[url="http://www.the-cow.net/"][color=red]The CoW Network (Blog) /[/url][url="http://www.collegeofwar.com/"][color=blue]/ College of War[/url]
Looks to me like your trying to fight scissors with tissue paper. No travel powers is really bad, people that expect enemies to just stand there and get hit make me laugh. Sure thats what happens in PvE lol. I had a fight with a dark/SR in the arena purely because he said over broadcast that he was sexy. First i beat him with my illusion/kinetic controller, that has one hold and then i fought him with my MA/SR because he wanted to go toe to toe (stand still and hit each other). Needless to say I won because I used Elude first and just before it dropped I moved to the other side of the map so he couldn't hit me. Then i moved back and kicked him around when his dropped. He was shocked as he had no trouble fighting AVs lol.
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However there are a lot of PvP builds out there that really tip the balance. For example, I have no travel powers, every SR armor and most combat powers so that my toon was viable in fights.
Yet in PvP I last 10 seconds in open fights, yeah thats balanced.
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That sounds like bad pvp build to me.. As I'm sure others will point out. We need more info to give more detailed advice but movement is about 50% of zone pvp. Secondly, as SR you need aid self BAD. Thirdly, SRs unfortunately are very difficult to play against certain characters. (And thats saying it mildly. My blaster for instance will happily tear through any kind of defense you can dish out 10 seconds out of every 25. So you need a different approach and be mindful of opponents strengths. )
And lastly, none of the rules apply if you go against superior numbers, everybody, and I mean EVERYbody, can expect to die fast in that situation. Ability to fight multiple enemies is never a given, and there will always be someone who will beat you 1v1 still. 
Say, nice sig.
That's really childish. No one said they were uber in PvP, or that by being so, it made them an awesome person. In fact, if anything, I've specifically said the opposite - just as being bad or inexperienced in PvP is nothing to be ashamed of, being good or more experienced in PvP is hardly any big deal.
You're really missing the point - people just get irritated (or amused, sometimes both in equal parts) about people whose first reaction to losing in PvP is along the lines yours was. No one was ever trying to lord it over you because they're better than you at a game.
But hey, keep it there if it makes you feel better. You're the one who's ending up looking silly, though.