Is PvP very one sided on Stalkers side
By
Alvan,
Posted on: 2006-12-16 24:42 in Everything about PvP
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Its not like power blast and bolt build domination ANY FASTER than the mezzes.
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Assault powers generate more domination points than control powers when they hit players. I use both ways of playing. If something can be easily controlled I will mezz it so it doesnt kill me (eg blasters, some controlers) and build domination off players that take a long time to hold (eg scrappers, tanks).
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Arrrgh.. tell me it isnt so.. I dont want to be forced to use such otherwise pointlessly superfluous powers.. 
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PBAoE attacks are classed as Melee attacks as far as Defense calculations are concerned.
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No, this is wrong. Test it with someone slotting a aura 3 acc, not using FA, BU or tactics.
I've tested it myself, with a lvl 50 spines/DA slotting 3 acc in DS and quills against a lvl 50 regen stalker with Hide one-slotted for defense. 17 hits and 328 misses.
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PBAoE attacks are classed as Melee attacks as far as Defense calculations are concerned.
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No, this is wrong. Test it with someone slotting a aura 3 acc, not using FA, BU or tactics.
I've tested it myself, with a lvl 50 spines/DA slotting 3 acc in DS and quills against a lvl 50 regen stalker with Hide one-slotted for defense. 17 hits and 328 misses.
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PBAoE attacks, especially damage auras classify as melee attacks. Hide ALSO gives melee def. Duh.
Hide only gives a tiny Def boost to melee IIRC, something in the region of 3-5%.
The numbers look a bit funny though. 17 out of 328 works out at just over a 5% hit ratio, which is the tohit floor. Against a 3-accuracy-slotted attack, I don't think hide can even get AoE defense up that high.
i would add a point to Silver_Weasel list
18)make a portal from hospital to the 3 circle area in siren for vilains.
i don't know for heroes but (it seems taht they have less unfriendly mob to cross near there base) for vilains taht don't necesseraly have travel power comming from bas to the center of the map (where the fun is most of the time) is a pain. a lot of tsoo, skyraiders and warrior mobs.
ps: i wil never understand why heores find stalker to be so uber when they have a temp power they can buy at siren that do +perc (thing that we vilains lack)
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ps: i wil never understand why heores find stalker to be so uber when they have a temp power they can buy at siren that do +perc (thing that we vilains lack)
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It's only available when Heroes control the zone, which the Beach bug makes almost impossible, without dedicated help.
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ps: i wil never understand why heores find stalker to be so uber when they have a temp power they can buy at siren that do +perc (thing that we vilains lack)
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It's only available when Heroes control the zone, which the Beach bug makes almost impossible, without dedicated help.
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beach bug?
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
See two pages back, the Beach Hotspot takes over half an hour to start without player intervention; which usually leads to that player's death.
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PBAoE attacks are classed as Melee attacks as far as Defense calculations are concerned.
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No, this is wrong. Test it with someone slotting a aura 3 acc, not using FA, BU or tactics.
I've tested it myself, with a lvl 50 spines/DA slotting 3 acc in DS and quills against a lvl 50 regen stalker with Hide one-slotted for defense. 17 hits and 328 misses.
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PBAoE attacks, especially damage auras classify as melee attacks. Hide ALSO gives melee def. Duh.
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classification tables are dodgy to say the least, against hide they count as aoes, i know that much from my own testing. Its like shadow maul, thats a melee cone yet in SC a lvl 20 dm stalker will hit through my BS/SR defences with 2 stacked parry with impunity (no aoe/cone def in sc)
**Acceptable "support" responses**
Its your fault
Its your computers fault
Its your ISPs fault
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See two pages back, the Beach Hotspot takes over half an hour to start without player intervention; which usually leads to that player's death.
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Surely that would affect villains as well, making it just as hard to take the temp powers back. I always start the hotspots off by pulling the oppresive longbow pigs into the couragous ranks of waiting Arachnos anyway. 
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
I didn't think dominators were underpowered before the boost. They are perfectly capable when played decently. They don't 2-3 shot, but they were quite effective as they were
Argh that domination buildup thing is true. Dammit.
ps. theres something wrong at the forums... I cant see the latest posts properly.
pps. Just been to union sirens call. I see no reason to change my opinions other than power blast/bolt. Anybody who thinks that doms arent underpowered in pvp can meet my heroes on defiant. ( i dont have heroes on union)
My Dev Blaster, If given enough time can kill any Stalker, All he needs is level 30 and then They're dead 
All you need -
Stealth- To help to set up
Caltrops - Slow down the Stalker
Mine - Blow up the Stalker
Target Drone - +Percep + Acc
And then you just need to taunt the stalker
Murf..
You can get a good stalker once at most with Trip Mines 
They learn fast. (One of the reasons I dropped them from my build)
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You can get a good stalker once at most with Trip Mines They learn fast. (One of the reasons I dropped them from my build)
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One of the reasons I made a claws stalker.
It does, but it makes the whole battle for domination cycle worthless. I tend to suicide some pets into the Longbow scum; or Snipe/Run one of the Mechanised Criminals.
Knock on effect is that neither vendor is any good.
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But surely Defiance Zerging would take place instead?
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Lol, defiance zerging = turkey shooting imo.
No.. make that clay pigeons.
(ps. it'd only work with blasters who are built with defiance in mind. Wouldnt work well with a generic blaster, besides only one AT gets defiance)
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*powexec_name Fireball* From a Corr, thats going to be a lot of Scourge hits 
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You can get a good stalker once at most with Trip Mines They learn fast. (One of the reasons I dropped them from my build)
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Hmm, depends, back when I first hit started PvPing on my Dev blaster I got a LOT of stalkers repeatedly with Mines, and this was back in February/March. Fun times 
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Argh that domination buildup thing is true. Dammit.
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Yeah, that would be why Syn was telling you your secondary is so important. It's pretty fundamental to the way Doms play imo, surprised you weren't aware of it. You build more Domination from your secondary, so spam attacks until Domination is up (which doesn't take long, and has been made easier to to in PvP and large teams, with a bonus). Building Domination using solely your primary is really slow in comparison - in fact, I barely use my primary on some of my Doms unless I have Domination up. Just when neccessary, since there's the risk of running out of end before Dom is ready if you try to spam everything.
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pps. Just been to union sirens call. I see no reason to change my opinions other than power blast/bolt. Anybody who thinks that doms arent underpowered in pvp can meet my heroes on defiant. ( i dont have heroes on union)
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I doubt one visit to Union Siren's Call would help anything. As I said, good PvP Doms are rare on both servers. I've seen more on Union, but we're talking in the range of maybe three of them I can think of, and only one who I've really seen and teamed with repeatedly. (And he's just come back from a months-long hiatus.) Syn and I are curreently levelling a pair of them, and a few others in our villain SG seem to have picked up the Dom bug at the moment, so hopefully we'll be seeing more. I'm guessing the changes to Domination have got a few people interested.
Sadly, my highest villain on Defiant is only around 18, and my only Dominator there is a level 5-ish PvE build. Maybe someday, though - I still have slots free, just not enough time to play everything I already have.
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Argh that domination buildup thing is true. Dammit.
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Yes.... this has been true since the release of the Issue 7 beta when it was a big deal because it was a big leap in the effectiveness of Dominators. This happened in April 2006.
I remember Stalk_obot's post:
Dominators coming of age in RV
Who is that fourth post down? It can't be Hammerfall!
...but to reinforce what Cybercel has said, the Assault powers are crucial in building domination and of course doing damage, slowing, stunning, -Recharging etc. I can usually build domination in 30 seconds and I have a pretty slow attack chain.
It's worth noting that domination 'decays' much more slowly than Fury so the process of building doesn't have to be a single get-dom-or-die-trying exercise, you can be tactical about it. It was possible to play a dominator in the zones before this but domination was hellishly hard to achieve and the situation is very different now.
Oh come on
Unfortunately, while I was testing the build up speed myself in sirens before posting my previous post, I was also running to sharkhead for acc insps and being repeatedly two-shotted by your generic, flying defiance blaster (my teammates were too). Very un-fun. And also domination wasnt of much use in that case as you can guess. It honestly wouldnt have been such a problem if I had had some +percep from somewhere, but I dont know what such buff villains could possibly have in there. Xanthus came to help with his corr and wilfred with his MM but were propably also fed up with the whole thing. Plus someone managed to spawn a winter lord in front of hero base too..
I may need to respec my dom according to this now, I wasnt aware of it because I really wasnt planning to pvp with my dom. Besides the blasts indeed are worse than useless in pve even. I once had power blast but respecced it away.
ps. regarding my post in that other thread, I guess i was more 'bright-eyed and bushy-tailed' back then and hyped up at the changes as a whole, not particularly at doms. Espcially I was happpy for the possibility of playing my tank in pvp (dream which since then has turned false) I also had no way of knowing how good doms really were back then.
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Besides the blasts indeed are worse than useless in pve even. I once had power blast but respecced it away.
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I honestly can't understand this. What's useless about them? I don't feel the blasts are anywhere near useless! Notice that a lot of the people who don't feel Doms are massively underpowered take, slot, and use their secondary heavily. I think there might be a connection there.
Oh, and the Defiancing Blaters are a load of [censored], but that's an issue with Defiance being easily exploitable, and is annoying to all squishies. They're generally pretty easy to kill if you just have someone on the team who can fly, though.
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Besides the blasts indeed are worse than useless in pve even. I once had power blast but respecced it away.
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I honestly can't understand this. What's useless about them? I don't feel the blasts are anywhere near useless! Notice that a lot of the people who don't feel Doms are massively underpowered take, slot, and use their secondary heavily. I think there might be a connection there.
Oh, and the Defiancing Blaters are a load of [censored], but that's an issue with Defiance being easily exploitable, and is annoying to all squishies. They're generally pretty easy to kill if you just have someone on the team who can fly, though.
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Whats useless? How about them doing no damage? My total focus (granted, only two-slotted SOs atm) did about 5% damage to a blaster lifebar today in sirens. Power blast does about less to a minion in pve. Thats whats useless about it. PvE-wise pretty much everything else is a better pick when you take powers. I MAY be slightly biased expecting more because I have a lvl 50 energy/energy blapper. Granted.
As for the second comment, you also need to be able to see the blaster. I had fly (jingle jet). Wasnt enough unfortunately. I managed to kill him trying to escape hospital 3-4 times in succession with heavy acc insp usage. I didnt enjoy it though.
ps. I could maybe live with miniscule damage if the endurance use was ALSO lessened. Unfortunately the powers take jsut as much endurance on my dominator and blaster.
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As for the second comment, you also need to be able to see the blaster.
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Not necessarily, I was in Sirens the other day when good ol' "G" was up to his usual tricks, and it's just a case of spinning around and tonking him with a blast after you take a hit. None of our team had any +Per, nor a stack of yellows, but we still managed to take him down an unhealthy number of times. Plus, he's only stealthed, if you jump close enough to him he's extremely easy pickings.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
If you compare them to the equivalent Blaster powers, of course they're going to seem weak. Blasters are a dedicated damage AT, Doms are not.
The best Doms I know all take and use attacks, build Dom quickly, fire it off all the time (no saving it just for the boss), and use it not just for control but also for the damage buff it gives you. A lot of people don't seem to play this way, and they're invariably weaker for it, because neither the controls nor the damage is great out of Domination. (Although, unlike you, I don't think the blasts are so low-damage as to be useless, with perhaps the exception of Psionic Dart, which makes up for it by being great for building Domination.)
Basically, the way I see it, Dominators were intended to be ATs that live on their inherent ability. They name of the AT and power are somewhat of a giveaway, I would think. All of the buffs the AT have received have not been to base abilities, but to Domination, which I think presses the point further. Most of the people I've seen complaining tend to be complaining about the AT's abilities while not under the effects of Domination, and I think they're barking up completely the wrong tree.
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Its not like power blast and bolt build domination ANY FASTER than the mezzes.
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Assault powers generate more domination points than control powers when they hit players. I use both ways of playing. If something can be easily controlled I will mezz it so it doesnt kill me (eg blasters, some controlers) and build domination off players that take a long time to hold (eg scrappers, tanks).
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464