Is PvP very one sided on Stalkers side
By
Alvan,
Posted on: 2006-12-16 24:42 in Everything about PvP
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PBAoE attacks are classed as Melee attacks as far as Defense calculations are concerned.
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No, this is wrong. Test it with someone slotting a aura 3 acc, not using FA, BU or tactics.
I've tested it myself, with a lvl 50 spines/DA slotting 3 acc in DS and quills against a lvl 50 regen stalker with Hide one-slotted for defense. 17 hits and 328 misses.
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PBAoE attacks, especially damage auras classify as melee attacks. Hide ALSO gives melee def. Duh.
[/ QUOTE ] Quills=AoE
That secondary attacks build domination well ONLY applies to PVP as well, which is why I havent noticed it until now. I still have trouble quite comprehending this change. Where exactly has this been mentioned?
Unslotted power bolt does exactly same amount of damage as dominate and mesmerize. Apart from being mostly smashing damage. Power blast does same amount of damage as levitate. And their damage still sucks in domination as well. Ive always thought dominators are more 'controllerish' than controllers themselves because the secondary attacks suck so bad.
EDIT: I just spent the past hour going through all patch notes I could find from annoucements section, (dating to time before I6 and after the forumwipe) all the way up to I8 release notes where the bonus to assault powers is briefly mentioned) and I found nothing concerning about the bonus apart from that brief mention in I8 notes that it exists.
Now am I being stupid and blind or is this bonus actually been mentioned at all in an official source? (I guess it was either introduced at COV launch or briefly afterwards) cause it sure isnt mentioned anywhere in-game...
(ps. it wouldve been a lot easier if the search function would actually work)
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Quills=AoE
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Curses.
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That secondary attacks build domination well ONLY applies to PVP as well, which is why I havent noticed it until now. I still have trouble quite comprehending this change. Where exactly has this been mentioned?
Unslotted power bolt does exactly same amount of damage as dominate and mesmerize. Apart from being mostly smashing damage. Power blast does same amount of damage as levitate. And their damage still sucks in domination as well. Ive always thought dominators are more 'controllerish' than controllers themselves because the secondary attacks suck so bad.
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The Plant/Thorn PvP guide I wrote more than six months ago makes this clear:
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Issue 7 has changed things for Dominators since it's possible to build up domination with just a few attacks in PvP, for me that means around 20 seconds. This compares to several minutes in Issue 6 - if you're able to build dom at all in PvP. The way domination building works currently from my experience on Issue 7 test is that every successful assault attack will add +8 to your domination bar, and any other attack adds the usual +2, when you reach 90 you have domination. The recharge of domination has been reduced from 300 to 200 seconds in both PvP and PvE.
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Where did I get this information from? From the release notes. The change is obvious as soon as you start playing in PvP.
The "Dom's suck" routine was tiresome months ago. I'm amazed anyone is following that line now and this is beginning to look like a troll. Even a casual reading of the UK dominator forums and especially the US forums will tell you how playable dominators are now.
Here's the deal: they're fun to play. As far as damage goes they are at least up to Corruptor level. Here's a fun post from the US Forums: Doms are better soloers than Corruptors
If you haven't been playing dominators and all this comes as a surprise, then ok, I suggest you do some reading, do some testing and not keep asking on the forums for people to prove something to you that everyone else takes for granted.
I was also running to sharkhead for acc insps and being repeatedly two-shotted by your generic, flying defiance blaster
^ Do what I did. First you need a ranged attack and teleport. Then you need to find 2 arbiter drones, stand in the middle for their perception buff. Then the moment the blaster show's his defiance [censored] anywhere in your screen, teleport there and throw a gloom at his face before he can use his snipe.
----
It's not exactly fool proof (Hey, I only once managed to get him before he sniped me from stealth), but at least it gave me enough time to grab the helicopter back to sharkhead so I could get away from the hospital snipe camping. xD
Right, so I was being stupid and blind :/ Sorry, but I managed to miss the line as I thought I would going through 18 pages of posts..
Anyway, I have had my mind/en since cov launch (edit: now lvl 32), granted, Ive not played it that much especially in pvp. I wandered off when they still used to suck. After that I have pvped a lot with my blaster since then and judging from any dominators Ive fought against I thought they are still too weak.
Reason I havent really noticed this change in pvp is because I respecced power blast away for being useless and removed power bolt from my power tabs for its uselessness. I wouldve respecced power bolt away as well but it was the first power of the secondary so I couldnt. This because the powers were that bad in PvE. This translated to the few cases I tried PvP obviously so that I did not have those powers available. As for melee attacks I never got around to being able to use them apart from maybe once or twice before I died and domination reset.
Naturally this is going to change the way I play in pvp.. I just wasnt aware of this.
ps. As a rule, I dont read peoples guides. I dont trust them. No offense 
Well in this case I also wasnt interested about plants.. I guess I should start to pay better attention to the guides forum..
pps. I have said before and will repeat now that dominators are fun in PvE. With E..
pppps. I will rebuild my dom and test according to this info I didnt know about, then post again.
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ps. As a rule, I dont read peoples guides. I dont trust them. No offense Well in this case I also wasnt interested about plants..
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That's a reasonable point, I read guides and then don't trust them ;P.
I think Light Petting's post explains why /En seems lacklustre, it does have Power Boost though, I also would have thought TF hits hard and it's available in Siren's. My money is on /Ice for the most effective PvP assault set.
Well power boost was the reason I took /energy, also because I was familiar with it and had hoped that the melee attacks would indeed hit hard. Bonesmasher is still ok, but total focus was disappointment really. It only hits about twice as hard as bonesmasher, eats one fifth of endurance bar doing so and recharges bit more than twice as long as bonesmasher. Tbh Id give one of my fingers to have energy punch in the set instead of any of the other blasts. Actually if that'd be the case Id respec total focus away for energy punch. TF is barely worth the endurance at the moment. I might feel differently when I get it fully slotted though.
Also I was told that power burst sucks, looking at numbers avaialbe im ready to agree, at least when it had that old miniscule range (I still dont know if the range increase applies to dominators as well).
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(I still dont know if the range increase applies to dominators as well).
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Not yet, Dom secondaries are in a different table than Blaster and Corr primaries, and didn't get around to being changed yet. I think it was Castle who's said that they will be changed in the near future though.
@Synaesthetix
"Here, take some more bees with you. You may need them."
Union: FU//LoUD
"that Syn is that that" - Mothers Love
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Not yet, Dom secondaries are in a different table than Blaster and Corr primaries, and didn't get around to being changed yet.
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I can't say im surprised. /e rollseyes
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PBAoE attacks are classed as Melee attacks as far as Defense calculations are concerned.
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No, this is wrong. Test it with someone slotting a aura 3 acc, not using FA, BU or tactics.
I've tested it myself, with a lvl 50 spines/DA slotting 3 acc in DS and quills against a lvl 50 regen stalker with Hide one-slotted for defense. 17 hits and 328 misses.
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PBAoE attacks, especially damage auras classify as melee attacks. Hide ALSO gives melee def. Duh.
[/ QUOTE ] Quills=AoE
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Type Toggle, Melee
Contradiction.
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PBAoE attacks are classed as Melee attacks as far as Defense calculations are concerned.
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No, this is wrong. Test it with someone slotting a aura 3 acc, not using FA, BU or tactics.
I've tested it myself, with a lvl 50 spines/DA slotting 3 acc in DS and quills against a lvl 50 regen stalker with Hide one-slotted for defense. 17 hits and 328 misses.
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PBAoE attacks, especially damage auras classify as melee attacks. Hide ALSO gives melee def. Duh.
[/ QUOTE ] Quills=AoE
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Type Toggle, Melee
Contradiction.
[/ QUOTE ]That's just a description. However:
"Attack Types: AOE Attack, Lethal Attack"
That is the line that determines what defence is used against it.
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Basically, the way I see it, Dominators were intended to be ATs that live on their inherent ability. They name of the AT and power are somewhat of a giveaway, I would think. All of the buffs the AT have received have not been to base abilities, but to Domination, which I think presses the point further. Most of the people I've seen complaining tend to be complaining about the AT's abilities while not under the effects of Domination, and I think they're barking up completely the wrong tree.
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Mind/En is probably the worst dominator power combination for this...
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It does look especially tough to make really workable in Siren's, which most people who do zonal PvP want in a build. I'm well aware /En has its problems - if I want Power Boost, I'll go with /Ice, tyvm. I don't think it's an overall problem with Doms, though. Just a power or powerset problem.
/En does have some things going for it, like Disorients and Knockback which are both useful, and rather nice for Dominators, in PvP. Perhaps the powers should have been tweaked a little more from their Blaster versions to make them a bit more suitable, though. It's a bit like how I think Flares is a really awful first attack for Fire Doms - it's a poor power to begin with, but on Doms, it's just unfair to artificially slow down Domination building with that animation.
Anyway, Hammerfall's made a thread on the Dominators forum, might be best to carry on any further Mind/En-specific talk over there, seeing as we're on a tangent of a tangent in this thread. 
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I know Abu's dominator as such isnt very strong in sirens though. I have fought him many times (he has same sets as my dom btw). Most of pvp zone combat he is SJing away just like I would 
. If you call that survival then ok.. He beat me in an arena duel because of telekinesis, I admit that. And thumbs up for him for that. 
Only dominator so far to have done so.
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I have ran into him few times too and I can't really say that I was impressed. And the time he stayed alive after I spot him was measured in seconds. (estimated average 10-15 seconds) Repeatedly.
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Ill just point out that this is not due to Abu being a bad player, it just reflects the weaknesses of dominators. I didnt want to bash his skills earlier in this thread.
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Yeah. Sorry if it sounded that I was commenting hes skills. I wasn't. Just that he died a lot Dominators are quite weak in PvP. The holds are nasty of course but they just have so little health and crappy damage output that the fight is quickly over if/when you manage to break free.
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
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Yeah. Sorry if it sounded that I was commenting hes skills. I wasn't. Just that he died a lot Dominators are quite weak in PvP. The holds are nasty of course but they just have so little health and crappy damage output that the fight is quickly over if/when you manage to break free.
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Well my blaster in sirens doesnt need to break free. Ill just sip my coffee until mez suppression kicks in and then I 3-shot them. That is if they are stupid enough to try taking someone 1v1 in sirens. Kind of obvious why Im going for teambuild in the dom thread.
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Dominators are quite weak in PvP. The holds are nasty of course but they just have so little health and crappy damage output that the fight is quickly over if/when you manage to break free.
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You're absolutely right, except for the factual content.
Hey I got an idea. What if we would grab known PvPers, Unionites for villains, Defianters for heroes, and meet in test server recluses victory? I don't know when I'd have time for it, but what do you think about the initial idea?
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Hey I got an idea. What if we would grab known PvPers, Unionites for villains, Defianters for heroes, and meet in test server recluses victory? I don't know when I'd have time for it, but what do you think about the initial idea?
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Prolly better in another thread. Seeing as its a bit unfair for union heroes and defiant villains I'd also have another event where those 2 get to compete.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
Mr. Normal would like to express his fond feelings of pummelling said Defiants.
Heheh, lets make it free then.. But I don't have 40+ villains myself.
Anyway PvP is more balanced than I give it credit to. I just wanted to say that. ^^
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Anyway PvP is more balanced than I give it credit to. I just wanted to say that. ^^
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*sniggers, before breaking out into outright laughter*
...
In the news today, a 22 year old male was found dead at his computer, apparently he died from laughing so much at a community forum. The medias response is that of old; over the top, and hyperactive, BANZORX ALL EVERYTHINGS!!!
>>
<<
wibble...
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Just make sure you can't be 2-shotted by them and you're fine 
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helps if you are paying atten when the flying EM stalker floats up next to you and... :P
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have it pretty easy in those zones.
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sometimes, and sometimes not depends who/what ATs are in
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but your never going to have to deal with those people in wb or rv becasue they are afraid to go there so theres really nothing to worry about.
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*cough* take it speaking for union side there?
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i learned my lesson very early on about trying to solo pvp zones with a squishy. Despite what soem people might tell you, those stalekrs aint goin for the tank or scrapper first, they are goin for the defenders and trollers. Kill two birds with one stone, bye bye buffs/holds and hello more rep points.
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Bye Bye fort/CM/heals and res along with some nasty debuffs depending on the troller/def sets(friend of mine has a earth/force troller, he has fun in SC watching stalkers come swarming then getting held KBd etc , rep? well that's just part of the process. and doesn't matter if on a brute, stalker, corr, MM or DOM the support ATs are going to be mosts primary targets, and same applies to heroes when they after the vilians, gank the MM/dom/corr first, brutes etc second...
(Sorry If this is a tad bit long)
Right I may well be missing the mark of the thread but I wanted to add my 2 pence...
I loathe playing my Stalker, PvP or PvE...
At first it was great fun, I was heard saying things like..
"HaHA AS one shotted kill, HeHe."
"Wow what a great way to prevent me from pwning you!"
After a while these turn into-
"Heh another one down.."
"Great another generic anti Stalker build" *Walks off to find someone else*
My point (Yes, I do have one) is this..
Now call me unimaginative, boring or just too damn good.
The Stalker AT is a mind numbingly limited and boring arch type to play, both PvP and PvE. Quite possibly in the whole of CoX.
Every time I PvP there are 2 kinds of players that you encounter.
These are...
1) No anti Stalker powers - Jump in BU-AS-Placate-High Damage Attack. Foe defeated.
2) Anti Stalker Powers - Maybe make the mistake of engaging, most times spot this and leave him/her well alone.
If you play your Stalker right, there is never an in between. Never the "Oh 1 last hit can I land before he takes my last sliver of health!" or "The hmm, interesting If I use this power, this will negate his power (in other words resourcefulness)".
Pretty much always the same Attack/Combat routine.
In teams.. Well I have no idea why any PvP invite me! Do I smell good or something? A stalker offers extremely little to a team other than the following.
"Uh, 1 here guys."
"Ok, on our way."
"Doesn't matter got him."
There are ample ways for anyone to block a Stalker, but very little for a Stalker to avoid being blocked.
It strikes me as thought up by the following.
"Heh been playing a Rouge on WoW its great fun, Stealth and back stabbings great."
"Heh tell me about it been playing GW Factions, made myself an Assassin, really spices up PvP."
"Heh lets make one in CoX despite having currently no way for a lot of people too see through Invisibility.. This will make them rely upon Defenders, because we all know theres a lot of them who want to go into PvP or the currently underused Leadership Tree.
There gonna have a problem with PvE though, especially all those great new escort X and the Fight X wave's missions..
Ah but they'll soon learns too love the utterly monotonous Newspaper missions
"We need a villainous name, I know Stalker."
"Great, so we'll adapt sets already used and fit them to the mold, yes lets call the main most damaging attack.... Assassins Strike."
"Wow, how original. Have a pay rise on me.."
If you want long term fun and an every changing gaming/PvP experience, play another AT..Please.
K
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Basically, the way I see it, Dominators were intended to be ATs that live on their inherent ability. They name of the AT and power are somewhat of a giveaway, I would think. All of the buffs the AT have received have not been to base abilities, but to Domination, which I think presses the point further. Most of the people I've seen complaining tend to be complaining about the AT's abilities while not under the effects of Domination, and I think they're barking up completely the wrong tree.
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Mind/En is probably the worst dominator power combination for this - the secondary melee powers are slow to recharge, the blasts suck and you have to use them in preference to the mind primary (which is as damaging and can give you a much better attack chain, if you aren't trying to build domination). It is very counterintuitive to play well (to me anyway), to the point I deleted mine and made mind/ice, mind/psi and plant/fire instead. Just sayin'
Synaesthetix:if your mum wasn't already dead I would go kill her for bringing
you into the world